Confirmed with Link: Vatanen to CAR for Janne Kuokkanen, Frederik Claesson and conditional 4th rounder

[Bleedred]

You don't even know if they go with Shesterkin. Lundqvist could very easily get the nod, although it should be Igor. Hopefully Lundqvist ***** them one more time.

You know, I guess you can’t count out the Rangers using Lundqvist, due to the experience factor, but I’d have to believe the leash will be very short if they use him. If he struggles then he’ll probably disappear even quicker than Hasek did when he started out the 08 playoffs for the Red Wings, before being removed and banished to the bench for the remainder of the playoffs.

The Rangers seemed to often times go out of their way to not play Lundqvist late before the shutdown.

I feel like if they don’t trade him this offseason, he’ll sign somewhere else in free agency in 2021 for a year, the way Marty did and that will likely be his last year in the league, barring a huge renaissance. It seems unlikely they’d trade him in the offseason, but some team could want him, due to legend status and what he used to be. I’d say this is right up Florida’s alley, if they didn’t have Bobrovsky signed to a trillion dollars a year. Florida has had a couple legends play there during their final days. Especially a few goalies. Ed Belfour and Tim Thomas come to mind. Nieuwendyk and Jagr as far as non-goalies go and probably a few others I’m forgetting.

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

Back to Kuokkanen talk , I hope he becomes a good NHL regular since it looks like he is all we will get from this deal. He has pretty good AHL numbers so it's likely he can be a 2nd/3rd liner. Plays all fwd positions too. If he can be a 15 goal 25 assist guy than it's not a terrible deal.

 

[Billdo]

Back to Kuokkanen talk , I hope he becomes a good NHL regular since it looks like he is all we will get from this deal. He has pretty good AHL numbers so it's likely he can be a 2nd/3rd liner. Plays all fwd positions too. If he can be a 15 goal 25 assist guy than it's not a terrible deal.

Don't we still get a pick regardless as well?

 

[beekay414]

Don't we still get a pick regardless as well?

No. The 4th round conditions weren't met. The Canes would have to make the playoffs and Vatanen would have to play a certain % of them and we'd get a 3rd. Then again, don't quote me on that. The conditions are weird due to what happened with the Covid virus. Not sure if the 3rd round conditions are still the same or not.

 

[beekay414]

As far as Kuokkanen goes, he's pretty much done all he can do in the AHL and deserves a shot with the big club next year.

17/18 - 0.667 PPG
18/19 - 0.792 PPG
19/20 - 0.857 PPG

And he's entering the last year of his ELC. Give him a shot. It's not like we're crawling with LWs right now.

 

[Zippy316]

I have really forgot about Kuokkonen as a potential breakout player for NJ. The odds that a 22 and under player breaks out for NJ is extremely high given the sheer amount of quality prospects. Sure some are less likely but you have the following who could hypotetically produce at the NHL level this year with a good summer.

Kuokkanen
Boqvist
Foote
McLeod
Anderson
Merkley
Zetterlund
Maltsev

If he sticks around, Brett Seney is dying for an NHL opportunity. Devils might not be able to get him a proper one with all those names. Bastian will likely get a long look as a fourth line forward playing that Maroon role too.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I am confused by the condition. We don't get a 4th because Vats failed to play in 5 regular season games for the Canes.

Doesn't that completely negate the further condition of playing 70% of playoff games? Since the condition for the 4th was not made, we can't get the third no matter how much he plays for them going forward?

 

[beekay414]

I am confused by the condition. We don't get a 4th because Vats failed to play in 5 regular season games for the Canes.

Doesn't that completely negate the further condition of playing 70% of playoff games? Since the condition for the 4th was not made, we can't get the third no matter how much he plays for them going forward?

That's my line of thinking but who the hell truly knows right now...

 

[ninetyeight]

I am confused by the condition. We don't get a 4th because Vats failed to play in 5 regular season games for the Canes.

Doesn't that completely negate the further condition of playing 70% of playoff games? Since the condition for the 4th was not made, we can't get the third no matter how much he plays for them going forward?

Wait I thought we were guaranteed a 4th? Which could be upgraded to to 3rd if he plays 5 regular OR 70% of playoffs? I might be wrong though..

 

[beekay414]

Wait I thought we were guaranteed a 4th? Which could be upgraded to to 3rd if he plays 5 regular OR 70% of playoffs? I might be wrong though..

No, it was a 4th if Vats played 5 games. It became a 3rd if he played 12 regular season games or 70% of the playoffs.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Wait I thought we were guaranteed a 4th? Which could be upgraded to to 3rd if he plays 5 regular OR 70% of playoffs? I might be wrong though..

Cap friendly says the 4th was conditional on him playing 5 games. It can then become a 3rd if he either played 12 games or 70% of their playoff games.

Since condition one wasn't met, I am assuming we get no pick from the deal even if he plays 70% of their playoff games (which who knows what counts as plauoff games at this point anyway)

 

[NJDevs26]

NHL rumors: Devils trade Sami Vatanen to Hurricanes, Louis Domingue to Canucks | What it means.

The way NJ.com words it, we can get a third rounder with 70% of the playoff games. We only don't get a pick if none of the conditions are met - five+ regular season games or 70% of playoff games.

It wouldn't really make sense to have the five regular season game clause override the playoff clause anyway since theoretically he could play 0 regular season games and 20+ playoff games.

Same with the way Masiak writes it

 

[Emperoreddy]

NHL rumors: Devils trade Sami Vatanen to Hurricanes, Louis Domingue to Canucks | What it means.

The way NJ.com words it, we can get a third rounder with 70% of the playoff games. We only don't get a pick without five regular season games or 70% of playoff games.

It wouldn't really make sense to have the five regular season game clause override the playoff clause anyway since theoretically he could play 0 regular season games and 20+ playoff games.

Ok yeah. The way they word it it sounds like we can still get a 3rd if he plays 70% of their playoff games.

So if that is the case, the question becomes what is a playoff game? Statistically the play in games are playoff games. If Sami plays it counts on his plauoff record. If he scores a goal, its a playoff goal, not a regular season goal.

So if he plays all their play in games but they lose to the Rags. Do we get a 3rd?

 

[Billdo]

I'm fairly confident if they beat the Rangers to get into the "playoffs" and he plays in 70% we'd get the pick, I don't see why we wouldn't just bc the regular season part wasn't met since the word or is in there.

 

[ninetyeight]

Oh yeah that's right.

While the conditions on the pick requires Vatanen to play five regular-season games, which doesn’t look like it may happen, the pick automatically upgrades to a 2020 3rd round pick if Vatanen plays in 12 regular-season games, or if Carolina makes the playoffs and he plays in 70% of their playoff games.
- source: Cardiac Cane - A Carolina Hurricanes Fan Site - News, Blogs, Opinion and More

So the 4th pick is gone, but 3rd pick conditions are separate from that. If play-in games are statistically playoff games (and not regular season), then they gotta be playoff games in trade conditions too.

 

[Emperoreddy]

I'm fairly confident if they beat the Rangers to get into the "playoffs" and he plays in 70% we'd get the pick, I don't see why we wouldn't just bc the regular season part wasn't met since the word or is in there.

But what if he plays every game but they lose to the Rangers?

 

[beekay414]

But what if he plays every game but they lose to the Rangers?

That's fully up to whether or not the NHL rules that the play-in counts as playoffs for trade purposes. Nobody has that answer yet.

 

[Triumph]

I think it's pretty moot anyway - looking at who Carolina is bringing to their training camp, I can't see them using Vatanen unless there's injuries or COVID-related absences.

 

[NJDevs26]

I think it's pretty moot anyway - looking at who Carolina is bringing to their training camp, I can't see them using Vatanen unless there's injuries or COVID-related absences.

Yeah you make a good point...all this speculation's probably for nothing since I'm not sure how in a hurry they are to use him, especially given he hasn't actually played a game for them (or in general for months).

 

[Emperoreddy]

He really might end up not playing a single game for them.

It does explain his return in hindsight.

 

[beekay414]

Hey, I'll take Janne Kuokkanen for free.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Hey, I'll take Janne Kuokkanen for free.

Kind of funny. About a year and half ago or so I said the Devils should trade Vats for a young 3rd line wing that had a good shot. I was told I had no idea how to value players. We got Kuokkanen.

 

[Billdo]

But what if he plays every game but they lose to the Rangers?

then we wouldn't get it because he didn't play 12 regular season games? I'm not sure. I don't think the games themselves count as regular season OR playoffs until after the play in from a technical standpoint.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

As far as Kuokkanen goes, he's pretty much done all he can do in the AHL and deserves a shot with the big club next year.

17/18 - 0.667 PPG
18/19 - 0.792 PPG
19/20 - 0.857 PPG

And he's entering the last year of his ELC. Give him a shot. It's not like we're crawling with LWs right now.

I agree with this and largely I think McLeod and Merkley are in the same boat. They dont have much more to prove in AHL. They are ready for NHL albeit in a reduced bottom 6 role. Even if they spend most of next season as a 13th forward and only get 20-30 games, it is probably still more beneficial than spending a year in AHL, as they are practising with the big club every week.

 

[Emperoreddy]

then we wouldn't get it because he didn't play 12 regular season games? I'm not sure. I don't think the games themselves count as regular season OR playoffs until after the play in from a technical standpoint.

But they do statistically. I am having a hard time squaring that fact and us somehow not being entitled the pick. Assuming he plays.

The record books will say Sami played X number of playoff games in 19-20 even if Carolina gets swept by the Rangers. It will say Carolina played X number of playoff games in the same situation.