LeBrun: Vatanen only moves if teams step up their offers

[tomd]

Never in recorded history has a fan base wanted so badly to get rid of a "good" player as much as TML fans want to get rid of JVR.

please stop.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

desperate and sad, nice! talking about the spin game again are we?


JvR is signed for 1 more year Taylor Hall is younger by three years and signed for the two years following, just clearing that up for you

so know that I know JvR will sign for more then Taylor Hall is currently making, where should I put my early line money for the 2018 SC final

now back to business



is that spin? possibly



a fact followed by a query....is that spin?



is this the spin you're talking about?



a qualifying statement followed by a fact, nope that's not spin either!




a personal observation and if you look at the average top 6 winger in the league he is definitely among the real good 2nd line guys

I'm so dizzy my head is spinning
like a whirlpool it never ends

actual lines from a #1 Billboard single March 15th to April 11th back in '69

have a nice day

Pretty much all of that is spin, yes. I mean, you tried to claim that JVR being more consistent is a point in his favor, even though his consistent range is right around what Hall will get in a bad year for him. Oh, and saying he's paid a lot less for the time being, that time being one whole year while Hall was traded with four years left. Trying to equate them was bad and you should feel bad.

 

[IDuck]

Never in recorded history has a fan base wanted so badly to get rid of a "good" player as much as TML fans want to get rid of JVR.

please stop.

Amazing how common that seems to be.

 

[therealkoho]

Pretty much all of that is spin, yes. I mean, you tried to claim that JVR being more consistent is a point in his favor, even though his consistent range is right around what Hall will get in a bad year for him. Oh, and saying he's paid a lot less for the time being, that time being one whole year while Hall was traded with four years left. Trying to equate them was bad and you should feel bad.

after careful consideration

no

 

[Godzlaf]

Alright ill put in my 2 cents.


I think with the cap space we freed up in the ED, JvR could be a legit option in a vatanen move, if he fits in well with the team then I think extending him would be an easy decision.


I imagine JVR would do very well on getzlafs wing... and jvr is a guy who since joining Toronto has put up roughly 60 points a season... and hes played on some really bad Toronto teams. Now that we lose bieska next year and already got rid of stoner and despres contracts... I wont be shocked if jvr ends up in Anaheim from vatanen. We save .5 million on contract, and yes he is expecting a raise and new contract but hes still somewhat young(28).

Question to Toronto fans, what kind of contract if he stayed in Toronto would you feel is fair for him?

Obviously I'm still on the kapanen train but I just wont be shocked if jvr and vatanen swap... seems like an obvious fit with the exception of vatanen being signed for a few more years and jvr being a rental unless we feel we can resign him.

Good post. Agreed on all counts. Would like to package up and get JVR and Kapanen, also.

 

[Getzmonster]

With Eaves signed, any Vatanen trade should be focused around a young(~ish) NHL-ready center. My money is on Murray standing pat on Sami for now, letting him work his way back from injury, then reassessing our needs again at the trade deadline.

 

[firstemperor]

Question to Toronto fans, what kind of contract if he stayed in Toronto would you feel is fair for him?

Tough to say, with the way the leafs are structured in terms of prospect depth, our holes, and the existing cap situation, we need to manage our cap pretty efficiently moving forward. We will likely never replace JVR's offensive contribution but we have a lot of other cost-controlled, younger options with upside that deserve a shot. Obviously, in a ideal world, we'd allocate cap towards our defense as well.

I would say we'd ideally keep him below market value...because that Oshie deal was terrible. Even a Okposo deal with JVR would be pushing the envelope IMO.

I think for it to be a good deal for the Leafs, it'd have to below market for JVR - which means ~5.5m or less on no more than 4-5 years. You can justify a lot more than that on some teams (i.e. teams that have a great D core already...like the Canes or Ducks), I just don't think it's a good idea with how the Leafs are structured in the cap world.

 

[North Cole]

and JvR can and will be signed at probably less then what Hall is making now, he is in his prime and hasn't had the injury issues that Hall has had because of reckless play, and is Taylor Hall the 80 point guy we saw in his 4th year or the 53 point guy we saw last year

Van Riemsdyk has been fairly consistent in his PPG the last 4 season's, playing on some not so good teams in Toronto, so you kind of know exactly what you're getting

in regard to JvR he seems to leave you thinking that somehow there's more there, he's not a true 1st line winger, but he's a real good 2nd

JVR put up decent points on some bad Toronto teams, who cares? Hall's worst season was on a team that was worse than most of those Toronto teams. If you put JVR on that NJ team, I doubt he gets near Hall's production.

"Real" good 2nd's don't get you #2D...Taylor hall isn't a medium first line winger, he's a "real" good 1st line winger. "Real" good second line wingers will get you a Vatanen, who is a #4D. it's just the way the D market is right now.

JvR is signed for 1 more year Taylor Hall is younger by three years and signed for the two years following, just clearing that up for you

uh Taylor Hall is a winger as well, so i don't know how that matters, also he has had some on going injury issues which Jvr hasn't and is paid a lot less for the time being

Adam Larsson is a shutdown #2 in the truest sense of the word, which is what the Leafs need and Sami Vatanen isn't that

I think his problem with your post is that you believe Taylor Hall and JVR have similar value, which they don't. I'm curious, what do you think JVR's next contract will be? The discrepancy in his contract will not be similar to the discrepancy in their skill..

You seem to be trying to account for their difference in skill in production by saying that:

A) JVR will sign for a noticeable amount less (Which is pure speculation)
B) Hall has injury problems and JVR does not (Which is irrelevant). Just because Stamkos has injury problems, do you think his value is largely different then what his cap hit is? Stamkos is not equivalent to Hall and is also a C; however Hall is paid far less and because Stamkos is actually signed for a moderate length of time, I don't have to speculate on his next contract in order to make comparisons.

 

[Not So Mighty]

Then who's going for help up front?

Our forwards?

 

[ScarTroy]

JVR is a good player and I'd like to have him, but he isn't worth much anymore considering he has 1 year left.

 

[tony d]

Vatanen would be a good fit on a lot of teams around the league. Toronto included. Will be interesting to see if he gets traded and for what.

 

[Spazkat]

With Eaves signed, any Vatanen trade should be focused around a young(~ish) NHL-ready center. My money is on Murray standing pat on Sami for now, letting him work his way back from injury, then reassessing our needs again at the trade deadline.

This. I don't think BM is anywhere near as much of a hurry to trade Vatanen as HF and the media seem to believe. He paid a pretty high price to keep him safe through the expansion draft... wouldn't surprise me at all if his intention is to keep him. (as in... not trade him at all)

I think half the fanbase's rush to trade Vats is that once he's gone they almost have to sign Cam. As long as Vatanen is still on the team the possibility remains that if they get too good of an offer or if the contract ask is too high Fowler could be the one moving. Mentioning that will about get you lynched by most of the Ducks board, but the fact remains that BM has never been one to hand out big UFA contracts and if the ask gets too high....

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Vatanen would be a good fit on a lot of teams around the league. Toronto included. Will be interesting to see if he gets traded and for what.

I think were holdilng on to him until the market is depleted... then let the remaining teams bid on him.. which may be the smart move

 

[caliamad]

yeah that's the beauty of the situation now. we want to upgrade roster but 0 pressure to move anyone.

we can just sit on our price and wait for someone to pony up.

 

[Nakawick]

Sounds like a Vatanen for Duchene trade would make sense. The only players with enough value to land the other.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

yeah that's the beauty of the situation now. we want to upgrade roster but 0 pressure to move anyone.

we can just sit on our price and wait for someone to pony up.

Specially now that we signed eaves we dont exactly need anything.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Sounds like a Vatanen for Duchene trade would make sense. The only players with enough value to land the other.

I think wed have to add, and i think barrie would have to ve moved

 

[caliamad]

I think wed have to add, and i think barrie would have to ve moved

I'm hopeful for Duchene too but I agree we would need and should add.

cleaning house a bit seems like a good thing for Colorado. Barrie and Duchene seems like where I would start.

 

[Mallard]

Happy about resigning Eaves but we need some youth and speed and I hope that is what Vatanen is used for down the road here.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

So who still needs defense, leafs wings and lightning?

 

[Static]

Washington could use D. Rangers probably do too.

 

[dkollidas]

So who still needs defense, leafs wings and lightning?

And, of course, the Sabres.

 

[Mallard]

What about BUrakovsky or something from Washington? left handed

 

[The Macho King]

JvR is the new Ryder + Halak.

 

[therealkoho]

I think his problem with your post is that you believe Taylor Hall and JVR have similar value, which they don't. I'm curious, what do you think JVR's next contract will be? The discrepancy in his contract will not be similar to the discrepancy in their skill..

You seem to be trying to account for their difference in skill in production by saying that:

A) JVR will sign for a noticeable amount less (Which is pure speculation)
B) Hall has injury problems and JVR does not (Which is irrelevant). Just because Stamkos has injury problems, do you think his value is largely different then what his cap hit is? Stamkos is not equivalent to Hall and is also a C; however Hall is paid far less and because Stamkos is actually signed for a moderate length of time, I don't have to speculate on his next contract in order to make comparisons.

no i don't i really don't, but i do believe that Edmonton sold short on Taylor Hall, and while I won't speculate here, there were apparently a lot of teams who simply said no not interested not at Chiarelli's intial price, but he didn't just want a Dman he desperately needed one and no one was willing to shake loose the kind of assets he wanted. That said is Larsson a top 20 Dman in the NHL? top 30? I mean he's a big guy, thinks the game well, can handle a big workload, but he's more like a less physical Marc Methot then he is a premier Dman.

so how bout dis, what would you pay for a guy like JvR on a new contract? 6m+ per, I wouldn't go higher then 5.25 and no more then 5 years, but he still gets you one of those second echelon Dmen if a team is looking for a proven left winger

recurring injury problems are called problems because they are problems,

I'm one of the few who wanted nothing to do with Stamkos especially at the numbers that were being thrown around and there's been nothing happening to change my mind thus far.

just for the heck of it from 2012 to the present van Reimsdyk is 12th on the LW's scoring list w/240 pts and a .72 ppg, Taylor Hall is 4th w/286 and a 0.87ppg

not that far apart

but toronto amirite