Prospect Info: Vasili Podkolzin

Bankerguy

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Apr 28, 2013
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At best, we come away with a 30 goal, 55 point winger who drives to the net and creates space. The puck-retreiver on a 1st or 2nd line

Most likely - we get another Jake Virtanen. 15 goal player who you keep hoping breaks out

At worst, we get a player who doesn't create offense enough in North America to justify a nice payday, and is then tempted by the KHL to go back home
 

WetcoastOrca

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At best, we come away with a 30 goal, 55 point winger who drives to the net and creates space. The puck-retreiver on a 1st or 2nd line

Most likely - we get another Jake Virtanen. 15 goal player who you keep hoping breaks out

At worst, we get a player who doesn't create offense enough in North America to justify a nice payday, and is then tempted by the KHL to go back home
Way too early to speculate on what he most likely becomes, IMO.
 
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racerjoe

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Until I see what he does in a full AHL season playing 20+ min a game, I won't judge him what so ever.
Everytime I have seen him play I have came away impressed.

Not to pick on you, but I hate this type of take.

What if he never plays in the AHL? What if he comes over and doesn't make the NHL so goes back to Russia?

For discussion sake you need to look at tracking points and say yes he is tracking well or no he isn't, you should be constantly re-evaluating how prospects are doing.

Right now I think everyone here would be saying Boldy is not looking good, but if things change and after Christmas he turns into a ppg player in the NCAA yes you would re-evaluate.

This isn't to say it is harder with a player in Vasili's position to evaluate, just that we should be, and if he does better we should become more positive, and if he isn't doing well, then yes more concerned.

In the end nothing we say here or do will decide his fate, but that is not why any of us our here.
 

settinguptheplay

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Keep in mind that Podkolzin will still be 18 at the end of this hockey season. Future determinations at this point are based off of guesswork.

That said his lack of production raises concerns. I understand the VHL is not a league to put up offensive stats. And I do not see enough VHL hockey to make an educated guess as to why scoring is so low in that league. I also do not know how Pods is being utilized and what role the coach has put him in. And when I watch him I am left to wonder why he is not producing. He really is an enigma as a prospect. Tantalizing skillset but often little to show for it at the end of the day.
 
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Canucks LB

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Not to pick on you, but I hate this type of take.

What if he never plays in the AHL? What if he comes over and doesn't make the NHL so goes back to Russia?

For discussion sake you need to look at tracking points and say yes he is tracking well or no he isn't, you should be constantly re-evaluating how prospects are doing.

Right now I think everyone here would be saying Boldy is not looking good, but if things change and after Christmas he turns into a ppg player in the NCAA yes you would re-evaluate.

This isn't to say it is harder with a player in Vasili's position to evaluate, just that we should be, and if he does better we should become more positive, and if he isn't doing well, then yes more concerned.

In the end nothing we say here or do will decide his fate, but that is not why any of us our here.
fair enough
 

YouNeedToBeInformed

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He is what he is at the moment. Probably will be until he plays with better players. So with that said, for once, people who are saying 'wait and see' are most likely right. Though thats not to say they wouldn't be saying that regardless, there is a fair amount of posters who simply cannot judge until just about everybody has seen the player for years at the pro level and it's become very obvious to just about anybody, usually due to their lack of actual ability to judge a prospect.

There are two periods that have a big impact on a prospects chances in the nhl, that is their D+1 and their first year pro (ahl/nhl) - Thats not to say that they need to be very impactful out of the gate in their first year AHL/NHL but you should be able to get another fairly accurate read if they have the tools and their likeliness to reach their potential

Russia does make it hard to see the likeliness but because he has played in a pro league, he has a pro type of game. It's pretty easy to see his issues.

And we will see if these continue to be issues when he's playing with better players. Basically we have to wait until the next stage, which will be the NHL (preseason, etc / perhaps doesn't play in the AHL)

Podkolzin's issues is that he has very low scoring hockey IQ, he also doesn't possess an accurate shot. Podkolzin relies on passing. He is going to be a 20g60 a player type of player (if he reached potential) and those 20g being drives to the net, garbage goals. Or he improves on his shot, who knows at this point. But based on his skillset now. His g/a ratio will probably be something like that.

Podkolzin has high passing IQ, however at lower levels, this is lost on teammates. He makes very quick passes and very creative passes.

He would get a few more goals too if he didn't get into positions to only accept higher iq hockey passes, he thinks because that's where he would pass to, thats where he should go, which is not the case. His teammates make the easy passes. The obvious ones.

These teams he's playing on might be a higher level than say, CHL/US College Hockey but it appears (which would be further evident by their draft positions), that they lack the creative offensive players, or at least his teams do. I watched the Russian team in the CHL/Russia series in November and it was the same thing. You just felt like the game is going to be 2-1. Russia didn't do all that well in that tournament, no surprise there.

With that said, he should be able to adjust and goto those spots to get the easy passes and should be able to adapt, this obviously needs to be a concern. He's not simplifying his game to match the league/team hes on. The changes would be much more obvious to a high offensive iq player

IMO if he becomes a good player, it'll be in the mold of Bo horvat, etc - well rounded straight line player who is good at puck protection, lacking high offensive iq, etc - which most of us predicted already

Generally players who have to rely on high iq passing at lower levels don't succeed in the NHL, however based on his puck protection/size/strength and defensive awareness. He has a pretty solid shot.

It reminds me of the struggles of smart d men in the AHL, there are a lot of d men who say playing in the AHL is harder than the NHL because other players do as you'd expect/want. NHL is more structured and at a high level, do your job and your teammates will be there to finish it off.
 
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Get North

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Does anybody even know the quality of the VHL? Players who aren't good enough to play in the KHL will go to Sweden, Finland, Switzerland or North America. If he's playing with players significantly less skilled than him, that would affect production.
 

Orca Smash

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Reading the kratsov thread, russia continues to be a mystery to me for prospects lately, he had a god season in the khl last year I would be happy if podkolzin had, and is now in the vhl a year later.

We would be doing cartwheels if he had a tolvanen season, but tolvanen is struggling more in the ahl then he did in his D+1 season in the khl.

I just dont know enough about hockey in Russia.
 

Melvin

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Reading the kratsov thread, russia continues to be a mystery to me for prospects lately, he had a god season in the khl last year I would be happy if podkolzin had, and is now in the vhl a year later.

We would be doing cartwheels if he had a tolvanen season, but tolvanen is struggling more in the ahl then he did in his D+1 season in the khl.

I just dont know enough about hockey in Russia.

This is the problem. This is what I was alluding to in my earlier discussion with ROE. We just don't know enough about these leagues. You can't just apply a linear factor. They are impossible to read.

Having said that, lack of playing time is going to be a concern in any league.
 
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Bleach Clean

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Reading the kratsov thread, russia continues to be a mystery to me for prospects lately, he had a god season in the khl last year I would be happy if podkolzin had, and is now in the vhl a year later.

We would be doing cartwheels if he had a tolvanen season, but tolvanen is struggling more in the ahl then he did in his D+1 season in the khl.

I just dont know enough about hockey in Russia.


I think if you take the specific example and work outwards, as you have here, the Russian leagues are going to appear erratic. Yet, they are not treated as such by intelligentsia employing NHLe and other conversion factors.

Basically, it's the difference between not being able to infer anything at all, treating it like a completely mystery box, or acknowledging that you can at least make some inferences, as NHLe and previous NHL translations suggest. I'm of the latter opinion. That it's valid to make an educated guess, while acknowledging that it is just a guess. Filled with error. Where as Melvin will take the more stringent approach and not infer anything at all. I think both approaches are valid and cannot be discounted.
 

krutovsdonut

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Reading the kratsov thread, russia continues to be a mystery to me for prospects lately, he had a god season in the khl last year I would be happy if podkolzin had, and is now in the vhl a year later.

We would be doing cartwheels if he had a tolvanen season, but tolvanen is struggling more in the ahl then he did in his D+1 season in the khl.

I just dont know enough about hockey in Russia.

kravtsov might be being punished for going over to the nhl to scare other players from even trying it.

i suspect it is brutally old school over there as in eddie shore owner/coach rules.
 

Orca Smash

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kravtsov might be being punished for going over to the nhl to scare other players from even trying it.

i suspect it is brutally old school over there as in eddie shore owner/coach rules.

Could be but if you follow the trend he was not playing inspired hockey in the ahl this year and bolted back into russia's arms and most articles agree he is struggling, a sharp contrast to last year, and his ice time gradually decreased in russia this season from what i read and then he was demoted to the vhl and is now heading back to the ahl.

Could very well be his team in russia is poorly run (but it was also the team he excelled on last year).

I dont think we would be ignoring this as just poor khl treatment if it was podkolzin instead of kratsov, nor should we. I think the podkolzin comments on here have been pretty fair and level headed, again we just dont know much about what goes on in russia as you alluded to.
 
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Orca Smash

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I'm excited to watch the WJC just because of this guy. Hopefully he delivers.

His performance should be evaluated, and this is in no way an excuse, but valeri bragin hockey is like watching paint dry unless the team falls behind or has a system collapse, I dont expect much offense from russia again. Seems like bragins strategy is to defend and play defense until the other team makes a mistake and then chip in a goal or two off the rush.

Then again i never get to high or low on prospects in wjc, unfortunately with russia being such a mystery box, its all we have.
 

Ernie

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People are getting a little too obsessive about where Podkolzin plays.

SKA is one of the top teams in the KHL. It is a men's league. The top six SKA scorers range in age from 23-30 and many would be playing in the NHL if they were in North America.

Podkolzin is 18. If he was in North America he'd be playing against boys. It's not really fair to compare his performance against men.

His VHL numbers are better this season than last. The fact that he's getting exposure to the 2nd best league in the world is a good thing, even if he plays a minor role.
 

Melvin

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People are getting a little too obsessive about where Podkolzin plays.

SKA is one of the top teams in the KHL. It is a men's league. The top six SKA scorers range in age from 23-30 and many would be playing in the NHL if they were in North America.

Podkolzin is 18. If he was in North America he'd be playing against boys. It's not really fair to compare his performance against men.

His VHL numbers are better this season than last. The fact that he's getting exposure to the 2nd best league in the world is a good thing, even if he plays a minor role.

It is an interesting question. Is it better for development to play sparingly in a men's league or play a lot in a junior league.

I don't know the answer and I'm not sure how anyone could.
 
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Hodgy

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Feb 23, 2012
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It is an interesting question. Is it better for development to play sparingly in a men's league or play a lot in a junior league.

I don't know the answer and I'm not sure how anyone could.

It also depends on the particular player as well.
 

YouNeedToBeInformed

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It is an interesting question. Is it better for development to play sparingly in a men's league or play a lot in a junior league.

I don't know the answer and I'm not sure how anyone could.

The theory is that when you play with your age group, you develop your offensive ability. Playing with older players allows you to take your game and try to make it work against a higher level competition, if you haven't finished developing your offensive skill, then you have less in your arsenal while trying to take down a stronger competitor. A higher level isn't where you can experiment with your game.

Sound logic

You end up going with what you are comfortable with, which is somewhat what you see with Podkolzin's game

If your creative game and offensive instincts are at a point where you are toying with your competition, no matter your age, you should move up as you would be gaining this experience at an age where you can absorb much more

Sometimes you want to rush players. More than often, teams get it right. But I strongly believe a lot of people aren't given enough opportunity to grow their game at an early age. People say theres no harm in holding a guy down in the AHL for longer, I disagree. It's just that its less measurable. They'll never be proven wrong on a message board when they make that claim, so it's easy for people to make that claim
 
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Ernie

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Aug 3, 2004
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It is an interesting question. Is it better for development to play sparingly in a men's league or play a lot in a junior league.

I don't know the answer and I'm not sure how anyone could.

Well it probably depends on the player, but I'd lean towards playing against men. Better to be learning what it takes to be a pro than dominating 17 year olds. Of course, if he wasn't getting any ice at all it would be different, but he's also seeing time in the VHL (which is also a men's league).
 

Ernie

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Aug 3, 2004
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Sometimes you want to rush players. More than often, teams get it right. But I strongly believe a lot of people aren't given enough opportunity to grow their game at an early age. People say theres no harm in holding a guy down in the AHL for longer, I disagree. It's just that its less measurable. They'll never be proven wrong on a message board when they make that claim, so it's easy for people to make that claim

AHL is a significant step up from playing in the CHL with boys though. Anyone who is drafted in the top 30 is already going to be dominating in the CHL, and it's stupid to make them play 2 more years there.
 

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