Vanek's status moving forward (trade/extend/let contract play out?)

[UnleashRasmus]

At this point I'd rather see the Sabres try to keep this. If he wants it to be his team. If he makes his intention known that he does not want to be here for the retooling. Move him for what you can acquire. If he wants out then Leino, Ott, Stafford, Miller should all be moved if you're going to move on forwards.

 

[Zip15]

In case anyone is wondering, we're 10-15-3 (.411) with Vanek in the lineup this season, and 6-2-3 (.681) without him. Because I don't believe that correlation implies causation, I wouldn't contend "we're better without Vanek!!" But this is something to consider moving forward, and demonstrates that the organizational apocalypse may not be nigh, as some would posit, in the event that the Sabres move him in the offseason for a pretty good haul.

His value may never be higher than this summer. An acquiring team can immediately talk contract extension with him post-July 1, 2013. Darcy can market him as an over-one-point-per-game forward - of which there are currently only 13 of right now (min. 25 games) - that can immediately bolster a team's PP.

I hope a good team that comes up small in the playoffs panics and starts inquiring.

 

[Hockeymad]

In any trade- the team getting the best player wins. It is hard to imagine another team giving up someone of greater proven value back to us. I think they have to offer to extend him and then make concrete moves to show the organization will make the rebuild time as short as possible.

 

[Zip15]

In any trade- the team getting the best player wins. It is hard to imagine another team giving up someone of greater proven value back to us. I think they have to offer to extend him and then make concrete moves to show the organization will make the rebuild time as short as possible.

It's a cliche devoid of context. In our case, it'd be apples to oranges because the team we'd be trading with would likely have different objectives in the short-term. Sure, whomever acquired Vanek would get the more proven commodity, but we're attempting to build a team for a few years from now, a time when Vanek may no longer be on the team and may have left for nothing on his own volition.

 

[Chainshot]

*ring ring

"Hello, Kevin, it's Darcy Regier."
"Hey Darcy, so have you rethought Stafford for Burmistrov."
"Well, I have and we think we're going to hold onto him for right now."
"Oh.... So....?"
"I was wondering if you have seen tape of Thomas Vanek on right wing."
"I'm listening..."

 

[Myllz]

In any trade- the team getting the best player wins. It is hard to imagine another team giving up someone of greater proven value back to us. I think they have to offer to extend him and then make concrete moves to show the organization will make the rebuild time as short as possible.

So you think Minnesota won the Pominville trade? Trades aren't just black and white like that, and anything involving Vanek probably wouldn't be, either. I'm guessing there'd be a number of picks and prospects coming back with Vanek, so saying whoever would get him "wins" the trade just because he's the best player involved is flawed.

 

[Beerz]

*ring ring

"Hello, Kevin, it's Darcy Regier."
"Hey Darcy, so have you rethought Stafford for Burmistrov."
"Well, I have and we think we're going to hold onto him for right now."
"Oh.... So....?"
"I was wondering if you have seen tape of Thomas Vanek on right wing."
"I'm listening..."

I'm scared off by Burmistrov and his attitude problems if Vanek was going to the Jets it better be built around zach bogosian and not Burmi.

 

[enthusiast]

I'll hate to see Vanek go, but if he doesn't want to extend, it's really the only option.

 

[RazielMoshman]

It really completely depends on where he is mentally. If he wants to stay with the team I'd like him to be a Sabre for life, but I suspect his going to want a trade to a contender after the seasons over based on his comments so far.

If we do trade him then I want a decent return, 2 promising young NHL ready forward or 1 and a 1st to begin with. I suspect the team we're trading him too will have to add salary to stay under the cap. But as I say if he doesn't mind sticking around I'd like to keep him for at least another couple of years, if not the rest of his career. His a good role model for the younger generation.

 

[stokes84]

FWIW, Buffalo's record without Vanek this year is 5-2-3. They can play without him just fine.

 

[kirby11]

Vanek+2nd (highest pick I'd trade, if needed) for Couturier and Read
Get it done darcy

 

[sabresandcanucks]

I'm only moving Vanek at the draft for the following....

1) Top 3 pick
2) two 1st round picks
3) Potential Franchise D man prospect (Hamilton, Trouba?)
4) Part of a package for an already established top D man (later in the summer....Weber?)

I really feel that we need to bring in a D man in any Vanek trade. We got the goalie prospect and additional center prospect in the Pommers trade. It's time to land a D man.

 

[Jim Carr's Rug]

It really completely depends on where he is mentally. If he wants to stay with the team I'd like him to be a Sabre for life, but I suspect his going to want a trade to a contender after the seasons over based on his comments so far.

I missed these comments.
Not saying they don't exist, but what are the reactions we're reading into? Any specific examples?

I feel the same way about Miller as I do with Vanek.
They're both great players that could really help the club, and help the kids grow, as long as they want to be part of it.

Of course, that last bit is the most important part of that scenario.
It's also the hardest part to make an accurate assessment on.

 

[Jacob582]

I think they will try to trade Stafford this summer.

Depending how next season goes, I think they will move Miller and Vanek at the trade deadline unless a team really wants them this summer (like how the Wild REALLY wanted Pominville).

I said after the Lucic incident that all Sabres with a letter must go.
Gone: Roy, Gaustad, Pominville
Tried to trade: Stafford
?: Vanek

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I said after the Lucic incident that all Sabres with a letter must go.
Gone: Roy, Gaustad, Pominville
Tried to trade: Stafford
?: Vanek

LOL, yeah that makes sense, because players like the following would've or should've jumped all over Lucic...

Koivu, Selanne, Cammalleri, Stastny, Robidas, Whitney, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Horcoff, Eberle, Hall, Campbell, Weiss, Kopitar, Koivu, Parise, Gionta, Gorges, Elias, Kovalchuk, Streit, Richards, Alfredsson, Spezza, Briere, Timonen, Yandle, Kunitz, Malkin, McDonald, Steen, Marleau, Stamkos, MacArthur, Sedin, Sedin, Backstrom, Green, Stuart.

All wear letters so if it was their team/goalie you'd call for all of them to be traded too...

 

[hizzoner]

Too many variables to make a considered decision. Other than Drouin is there anyone in this years draft you could reasonably say could match his numbers-maybe? I would prefer to keep him but if we must wait until after this year's draft to talk to him that is a problem. I want him signed (no 6 year deal-preferably 4 at 7 million per) or out of here before next season--not creating an issue in the room-especially if he will be wearing a letter. I would like an elite prospect/top 7 pick, a younger Dman who plays like Regehr but is slightly more mobile, and some other reasonably good draft choices to gamble with or use as trading chips. If we need to keep some salary to make it work then so be it.

 

[Jacob582]

LOL, yeah that makes sense, because players like the following would've or should've jumped all over Lucic...

Koivu, Selanne, Cammalleri, Stastny, Robidas, Whitney, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Horcoff, Eberle, Hall, Campbell, Weiss, Kopitar, Koivu, Parise, Gionta, Gorges, Elias, Kovalchuk, Streit, Richards, Alfredsson, Spezza, Briere, Timonen, Yandle, Kunitz, Malkin, McDonald, Steen, Marleau, Stamkos, MacArthur, Sedin, Sedin, Backstrom, Green, Stuart.

All wear letters so if it was their team/goalie you'd call for all of them to be traded too...

It wasn't just about jumping Lucic. It was sending a message the rest of the game. At least play hard or win the game. The team turtled the rest of that game and most of the seasons since. That is on the "core" leadership.

In addition, Pegula probably should have fire R and R.

 

[Chainshot]

I'm scared off by Burmistrov and his attitude problems if Vanek was going to the Jets it better be built around zach bogosian and not Burmi.

Not sure the Peg moves Bogosian, but Burmistrov as part of a package along with something else? Trouba perhaps would be damned interesting.

 

[sabresandcanucks]

Not sure the Peg moves Bogosian, but Burmistrov as part of a package along with something else? Trouba perhaps would be damned interesting.

If Winnipeg calls I say Trouba has to be part of the deal.

 

[Zip15]

I'm only moving Vanek at the draft for the following....

1) Top 3 pick
2) two 1st round picks
3) Potential Franchise D man prospect (Hamilton, Trouba?)
4) Part of a package for an already established top D man (later in the summer....Weber?)

I really feel that we need to bring in a D man in any Vanek trade. We got the goalie prospect and additional center prospect in the Pommers trade. It's time to land a D man.

The problem is that I don't think any team gives up those packages for a winger signed for one more season. Perhaps the package of two 1st rounders from a team like CBJ if they feel they can re-sign him, but even then I think they'd want it to be their second- or third-best 1st this year and a future 1st. Even though he's more talented than Poms, I don't see him returning a better overall package because the acquiring team would only be guaranteed one full season with him.

Not sure the Peg moves Bogosian, but Burmistrov as part of a package along with something else? Trouba perhaps would be damned interesting.

I have a hard time envisioning them moving Trouba. He's only gotten better since his draft and he has 1st pairing defenseman written all over him. Maybe If they just miss the playoffs we can extract something like Burmistrov + 2013 1st (12-14 range) + one of their 2nd rounders.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

It wasn't just about jumping Lucic. It was sending a message the rest of the game. At least play hard or win the game. The team turtled the rest of that game and most of the seasons since. That is on the "core" leadership.

In addition, Pegula probably should have fire R and R.

How about improving the team by letting the worst players go and acquiring tougher/bigger/better players to help support the most skilled ones on the roster? Isn't that a better plan than trading away the most skilled players just because they wear a letter, and because the GM/coach didn't see the need to get tougher players before?

This whole idea swirling around the boards - that because the best players on the team aren't good enough to win, ignoring the fact that the roster depth is inferior - is just so shallow minded. Switch out 26, 29 (gone already I know), and 30 with ANY three players in the league. Tell me with those new future HOFers that Buffalo is now a legit SC contender. No...you can't honestly say that. The improvement is not enough to pull a garbage bottom 9 and mistake-prone defense into a being a Cup contender.

IMO it will take two impact D-men (one if Myers comes around), 2-3 improvements at FW (primarily 3C), and a coach that can get the team to play a system (any system) with cohesion and dedication. Maybe that's a long ways off, but it will be longer if top talent like Vanek and Miller choose to walk, or if no talent develops to their level in the next 2-3 years.

 

[5 Minute Major]

FWIW, Buffalo's record without Vanek this year is 5-2-3. They can play without him just fine.

FWIW, the Sabres had a pretty good record with Enroth in goal a couple years back.

 

[SabresFanNorthPortFL]

1. Treat both Miller and Vanek the same.
2. Speak to both of them right after our season ends. Explain the team's plans, and that the team wants them both life long Sabres. Tell them:
a. Stafford will be traded.
b. a top 4 defenseman will be brought in.
c. a veteran center will be brought in.
d. we will tweak this team and make the playoffs next year. (not out of the question)
e. we will be hiring a top coach.
f. let them know that it may be possible that Ennis, Sekera, Weber, Myers, Foligno, Grigs, Girgs, Armia, Larson, just about anyone might be traded to bring in said center/dman.
g. Ott will be back
3. offer both of them identical 3yr/$18mil contracts, with a mutual option for a 4th year @ $6 mil. Let them know team needs fiscal responsibility, that the team has been comittited to the two of them for years, and $6mil per is nothing to sneeze at.
4. let them know that we want to have a press conference on July 1st with both about the contract signings.
5. let them know if this is not satisfactory, that they will be dealt asap, ie draft. BUT, that is not what the team wants, the team wants to build around those two for the next 3-5 years.

Both Miller and Vanek are not the problem with this team, and never have been. Miller's been the best Sabre all season.

Anyway, I'd love them to sign both to 3-4 year contracts, and start building a competitive team for next year, I don't think we are that far off, couple pieces out, couple in.

 

[Beerz]

Not sure the Peg moves Bogosian, but Burmistrov as part of a package along with something else? Trouba perhaps would be damned interesting.

I'd be all for Trouba.

 

[sabresandcanucks]

The problem is that I don't think any team gives up those packages for a winger signed for one more season. Perhaps the package of two 1st rounders from a team like CBJ if they feel they can re-sign him, but even then I think they'd want it to be their second- or third-best 1st this year and a future 1st. Even though he's more talented than Poms, I don't see him returning a better overall package because the acquiring team would only be guaranteed one full season with him.



I have a hard time envisioning them moving Trouba. He's only gotten better since his draft and he has 1st pairing defenseman written all over him. Maybe If they just miss the playoffs we can extract something like Burmistrov + 2013 1st (12-14 range) + one of their 2nd rounders.

Granted...but if that is the case I try my best to re-sign him. I think a few teams will be desperate for a winger of his caliber given how pathetic the free agency pickings are this offseason. Someone is going to just miss the playoffs because they had no scoring, or get bounced in the first round for the same reason.

Buffalo needs a potential franchise D man now that Myers looks more and more like a 3-4 guy (this is premature I know...)...I only move Vanek to solve that need.

Worst case scenario...move him at the deadline for prospects/picks next year.