Speculation: Vancouver Canucks Ownership Commitment to #WINNING!!!

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Wilch

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Mar 29, 2010
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re:

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For the record, I am not Iain MacIntyre.

I see three things in that article:
1. Francesco Aquilini spoke to Gillis in person in Toronto.
2. A misleading title that was derived from [404 Error]
3. A lazy eyed man with a pedophilic smile.
 

Betamax*

Guest
I'm blaming Gillis for not improving this team... but at the same time I doubt any of us predicted that our 1st line (ie. Sedins and burrows) would ahve such terrible years.

The "reset" was largely predicated on having a new voice behind the bench and coaching philosophy.

I think serious questions have to be asked, how much responsiblity does Coaching have to do with the sub-optimal performances of the players' you mentioned.

It's pretty clear that ownership had a voice in selecting Torts as the Coach ... how much so that was the tipping point over say a John Stevens or someone else ... well it's all subject to speculation.
 

Betamax*

Guest
AIG owned 50% of the team as of 2004, and purchased the other 50% in 2006. In Paolo Aquilini's words "We ran [the Canucks] as if we owned 100 per cent. It didn't affect our management of the team."

(You might recognize the link..)

Even before purchasing the other 50% of Orca Bay you'd have to think they exercised considerable influence over the management of the team.

How does litigation stop AIG from acting as owners? Perhaps you could explain that one to Paolo Aquilini.

dave, it's pretty easy to say such things after the fact. Maybe you should review the trials & tribulations that occurred when the trial began on April 30th, 2007. A decision was reached in early January, 2008. How many months was that?

I think when you are being sued for the ownership of the franchise, or being being forced to sell the franchise (if the NHL didn't approve the transfer to Gaglardi and Beedie in the event they won their case against AIG), that uh, kinda weighs heavily on your mind. Especially when FA and his own conduct with his (alleged) partners at the time was in question and at the heart of the matter.

Just look at one account via the Vancouver Sun's Ian Mulgrew when FA was on the witness stand to testify:

source: http://www2.canada.com/vancouversun....html?id=6023a5ac-300c-4424-a64b-20439c74bce0

Aquilini forced to admit errors in sworn testimony
Ian Mulgrew, Vancouver Sun
Published: Friday, June 15, 2007

Francesco Aquilini -- his recollections shredded, his integrity under siege -- remained unruffled behind a litany of I-can't-recalls as his version of how he bought the Vancouver Canucks was dismissed as an outright fabrication.

Under gruelling cross-examination Thursday in B.C. Supreme Court, the multimillionaire developer insisted he did not go behind his former partners' backs to scoop the NHL team and its home, GM Place.

But he was forced to acknowledge he made several "errors" in previously sworn testimony in the civil lawsuit and concede, "I don't think I got that right," on others.

It was a brutal day on the stand for Aquilini as his central claim -- that he only began an independent bid for a minority interest in the Canucks after a $250-million bid by Tom Gaglardi and Ryan Beedie collapsed -- was savaged.

The point being when you have this dark cloud over your head, it didn't surprise me that any decisions regarding the future of the head of Hockey Operations for his franchise was differed until they had clarity in that matter of who should be legally the rightful owner.
 

Betamax*

Guest
You seem to be pushing this angle because you want Gillis out of the way so the team can try some crazy scheme playing copycat to the Seattle Seahawks because they just won the Superbowl, nevermind that it's a completely different sport and the best candidate you can come up with is a hockey analyst that no one has hired for what two decades?

Uh, this is what I wrote here before your reply:

Well, I think GMMG is in the hot seat. I believe he deserves a chance to attempt to "fix" the problems. But let's be honest, his greatest weakness as a GM hasn't been able to make the "franchise changing" bold move trade(s) that elevated the team to the next level ... even if its taking a longer term approach.


Look, I think GMMG should get a chance to fix the problem (not to get to the Playoffs at all costs) but to re-build the team into a SC contender over the long-term but I don't exactly have the utmost in confidence that he could pull of the trades necessary to get this team to the next level. His trading history as GM of the Canucks speaks for itself.

Do you believe he can pull it off?

Oh, and if there's a new GM appointed, I see Coach Torts being in a "lame duck" position, similar to what Keenan was when the Canucks hired Burke to be their GM. I don't see any realistic scenario where Coach Torts would be elevated to a duo role as both Coach and GM?

I mean, imagine how angry he gets just being a Head Coach, how many deals do you think he could pull off when he gets ticked off by a fellow sly GM during the negotiation process? Would offers of Barn Fights or rather Dog Pound Fights be par for the course?

My point being, if AIG/FA is Hellbent on making a change at the top as is being alluded to by The Vancouver Suns IMac's recent article ... I'm putting the "Seattle Seahawks" Model out there for discussion.

Put it this way, do you want Gillis right now to trade some of our prospects like Shinkrauk/Gaunce/Jensen/Corrado/etc for some immediate help in an attempt to get in the playoffs? Because fire Gillis this off season for missing the playoffs and that's exactly the message Aqualini is sending to the next guy. You've frequently been bringing Nonis' firing for missing the playoffs up in the discussion, but do you remember the rumours around the deadline deal for Brad Richards? Here's a recap, Richards probably would have gotten us into the playoffs but the rumours asking price would have been Kesler + Edler + a draft pick(?), and Nonis said even if it cost him his job he wasn't going to make a trade that could handcuff the franchise. So are you saying you want our teams GM to be in the hot seat that he could pull the trigger on that deal to save his own ass?

If you read what I've been writing here ... I've stated this numerous times in this thread and others. The core needs to get younger ... not older. Ideally in the early to mid-20 to early 30s age range of it's most important players for the Canucks to be "reset" and become a Stanley Cup Contenders.

Incidentally, the overwhelming majority of the Seahawks key players are in that age range. And I've challenged others to look back at the last 20 or so Stanley Cup Champions, calculate the average age of their top-six forwards, and top-four d, and compare their average age to the 2014 edition of the Canucks.

In the case of the Canucks, they don't have six top six forwards, only four (well, notwithstanding this year's performance thus far, re: Burrows) ...
 

Wetcoaster

Guest
The point being when you have this dark cloud over your head, it didn't surprise me that any decisions regarding the future of the head of Hockey Operations for his franchise was differed until they had clarity in that matter of who should be legally the rightful owner.
Why would they? AIG was the owner and the defendants did not have an injunction to prevent them operating as the owners in an unfettered manner.

And I take it you did not read the decision of the judge who upheld the sale to AIG.
 

Betamax*

Guest
Why would they? AIG was the owner and the defendants did not have an injunction to prevent them operating as the owners in an unfettered manner.

The point I was trying to make that it didn't surprise me that AIG primary focus and attention was devoted towards #WINNING off ice over their on ice.

I mean if you are diagnosed with a life threatening disease (say cancer), you may take the road of putting all your efforts into fighting said disease (take a leave of absence and put other aspects of your life on cruise control) or you could carry on dividing your time between that and the other aspects of his life.

I mean his ownership of the Canucks was being threatened by that lawsuit!


And I take it you did not read the decision of the judge who upheld the sale to AIG.

Good call. From your observations of the trial, do you think the trial pre-occuppied FA mind constantly and perhaps kept him awake at night?

Or do you think, it was to him, during every day of that trial, it was akin to sunbathing on Sunny, Kits Beach, with a lemonade on hand, on you know, one of them "Six Tanker Days?"

What say you?
 

Ernie

Registered User
Aug 3, 2004
12,841
2,303
I'd guess that Gillis has at least another year.

People seem to use Nonis as an example of why Gillis might be fired. Some counterpoints:
1) Nonis had two non-playoff seasons (out of three) - both of which the team was coming off a division win. Gillis has had one.
2) Gillis built the most successful team the franchise has ever seen. Nonis' team won one playoff round.
3) Nonis was a leftover from the previous regime and never had much of a vote of confidence from Aquilini. Gillis was Aquilini's hire and has worked closely with him.

If you take the last couple of seasons, sure, there are a lot of comparables between the two. But that's ignoring all the good work that Gillis did previous to that. He'll get a chance to turn it around.
 

Wetcoaster

Guest
The point I was trying to make that it didn't surprise me that AIG primary focus and attention was devoted towards #WINNING off ice over their on ice.

I mean if you are diagnosed with a life threatening disease (say cancer), you may take the road of putting all your efforts into fighting said disease (take a leave of absence and put other aspects of your life on cruise control) or you could carry on dividing your time between that and the other aspects of his life.

I mean his ownership of the Canucks was being threatened by that lawsuit!
Your point is without foundation.

And if you were conversant with the applicable law you would have realized there was very little chance of success. Counsel for the Plaintiffs faced an uphill battle from the start.

Also one reason parties engage top flight counsel (and AIG had them) is that they take care of the case so the client can get on with their business.

This was a business deal between informed represented parties - equity, fairness and credibility are rarely issues. In this case the deal was papered seven ways to Sunday and a basic rule is that documents speak for themselves and are not modified by claimed oral representation except in very limited circumstances which were not evident.

As soon as it became apparent that was the basis for the Gaglardi/Beedie claim informed legal pundits realized that this was a desperate attempt by the Plaintiffs to try to rescue a business deal that they had botched. And counsel for AIG and Orca Bay recognized it as well so they let the Plaintiffs flail away on non-issues that made good newspaper copy but had no real bearing on the case.

Madame Justice Wedge was very clear in her decision on the issues of credibility and fairness between business people in a business deal.

8] Credibility was a matter of much debate among the parties and took up a significant amount of time at trial. Gaglardi and Beedie mounted extensive challenges to the credibility of Aquilini, McCaw and most other central witnesses who testified on behalf of the defendants. Aquilini and Orca Bay challenged the credibility of Gaglardi in many areas of his evidence.

[9] However, very few of the findings of fact on which the outcome of the case rests required an assessment of credibility. In the few instances in which a particular finding of fact required resolution of a credibility issue, I have indicated whose evidence I preferred and why. With respect to most key facts, findings of credibility were simply unnecessary.

[10] The challenges brought by Gaglardi and Beedie to the credibility of the various witnesses related primarily to the timing and content of the discussions between Aquilini and Orca Bay representatives concerning Aquilini’s interest in acquiring the Canucks after he left the group. As will become apparent in these reasons, I have concluded that inquiry was for the most part irrelevant to the outcome of the dispute.
...
[436] Aquilini did not owe any duty of fairness or good faith. This was a high-stakes, arm’s length business transaction and all of the players in the piece, including Gaglardi and Beedie, were entitled to act in their own self-interest. They all did so.

[437] In any event, neither Aquilini nor Orca Bay acted unfairly.​
 

opendoor

Registered User
Dec 12, 2006
11,719
1,403
The point I was trying to make that it didn't surprise me that AIG primary focus and attention was devoted towards #WINNING off ice over their on ice.

That's what you pay very expensive lawyers for. They worry about the case and devote their time and energy towards it so you don't have to. If corporations screeched to a halt every time there was a lawsuit against them nothing would ever get done.
 

Pump n Dump

Registered User
Sep 2, 2009
474
62
North Vancouver, BC
The point I was trying to make that it didn't surprise me that AIG primary focus and attention was devoted towards #WINNING off ice over their on ice.

I mean if you are diagnosed with a life threatening disease (say cancer), you may take the road of putting all your efforts into fighting said disease (take a leave of absence and put other aspects of your life on cruise control) or you could carry on dividing your time between that and the other aspects of his life.

I mean his ownership of the Canucks was being threatened by that lawsuit!




Good call. From your observations of the trial, do you think the trial pre-occuppied FA mind constantly and perhaps kept him awake at night?

Or do you think, it was to him, during every day of that trial, it was akin to sunbathing on Sunny, Kits Beach, with a lemonade on hand, on you know, one of them "Six Tanker Days?"

What say you?

Note that the decision was appealed and the appeal decision was not rendered until Feb 2009, after Nonis was fired.
 

ionicbluebird

Registered User
Apr 18, 2012
82
0
If Gillis trades our future for a shot at the playoffs I will be SO pissed. It would just prolong our mediocrity...
 

Betamax*

Guest
Your point is without foundation.

And if you were conversant with the applicable law you would have realized there was very little chance of success. Counsel for the Plaintiffs faced an uphill battle from the start.

Also one reason parties engage top flight counsel (and AIG had them) is that they take care of the case so the client can get on with their business.

This was a business deal between informed represented parties - equity, fairness and credibility are rarely issues. In this case the deal was papered seven ways to Sunday and a basic rule is that documents speak for themselves and are not modified by claimed oral representation except in very limited circumstances which were not evident.

As soon as it became apparent that was the basis for the Gaglardi/Beedie claim informed legal pundits realized that this was a desperate attempt by the Plaintiffs to try to rescue a business deal that they had botched. And counsel for AIG and Orca Bay recognized it as well so they let the Plaintiffs flail away on non-issues that made good newspaper copy but had no real bearing on the case.

Madame Justice Wedge was very clear in her decision on the issues of credibility and fairness between business people in a business deal.

8] Credibility was a matter of much debate among the parties and took up a significant amount of time at trial. Gaglardi and Beedie mounted extensive challenges to the credibility of Aquilini, McCaw and most other central witnesses who testified on behalf of the defendants. Aquilini and Orca Bay challenged the credibility of Gaglardi in many areas of his evidence.

[9] However, very few of the findings of fact on which the outcome of the case rests required an assessment of credibility. In the few instances in which a particular finding of fact required resolution of a credibility issue, I have indicated whose evidence I preferred and why. With respect to most key facts, findings of credibility were simply unnecessary.

[10] The challenges brought by Gaglardi and Beedie to the credibility of the various witnesses related primarily to the timing and content of the discussions between Aquilini and Orca Bay representatives concerning Aquilini’s interest in acquiring the Canucks after he left the group. As will become apparent in these reasons, I have concluded that inquiry was for the most part irrelevant to the outcome of the dispute.
...
[436] Aquilini did not owe any duty of fairness or good faith. This was a high-stakes, arm’s length business transaction and all of the players in the piece, including Gaglardi and Beedie, were entitled to act in their own self-interest. They all did so.

[437] In any event, neither Aquilini nor Orca Bay acted unfairly.​

During the trial and before the verdict, as a informed Pundit, "As soon as it became apparent [to you Wetcoaster] that was the basis for the Gaglardi/Beedie claim informed legal pundits realized that this was a desperate attempt by the Plaintiffs to try to rescue a business deal that they had botched."

Did you call it and almost verbatim reach the same conclusions of the Judge and opined about it whether it be hfboards or maybe some other board where it can be documented and date stamped at the time?

Furthermore, given your extensive experience reviewing and following past court cases that have gone to trial, with the benefit of your extensive understanding of the Law, has there ever been any instance(s) where you felt it was "in the bag" or a "slam dunk" for the Plaintiffs or Defendant in any particular case(s), perhaps maybe involving yourself, only to have the Judge rule the other way ... and you end up saying to yourself, WTF?!? (not in the literal sense).
 

Wetcoaster

Guest
During the trial and before the verdict, as a informed Pundit, "As soon as it became apparent [to you Wetcoaster] that was the basis for the Gaglardi/Beedie claim informed legal pundits realized that this was a desperate attempt by the Plaintiffs to try to rescue a business deal that they had botched."

Did you call it and almost verbatim reach the same conclusions of the Judge and opined about it whether it be hfboards or maybe some other board where it can be documented and date stamped at the time?

Furthermore, given your extensive experience reviewing and following past court cases that have gone to trial, with the benefit of your extensive understanding of the Law, has there ever been any instance(s) where you felt it was "in the bag" or a "slam dunk" for the Plaintiffs or Defendant in any particular case(s), perhaps maybe involving yourself, only to have the Judge rule the other way ... and you end up saying to yourself, WTF?!? (not in the literal sense).
I not only called it but so did any number of my legal colleagues when we discussed the case. No one I recall thought that the Plaintiffs had a chance of success unless counsel for the defendants botched the job and given who they were chances were slim to none that would happen. And they were right. The law in this area is pretty clear.

The other thing was as soon as Madame Judge Wedge was assigned to the case that meant that it was being heard by one of the most competent BCSC judges so there was little chance she was going to get it wrong.

Do judges get a case wrong? Sure but that is why we have appeal courts to correct them. In this case as the BCCA said on appeal Madame Justice Wedge was spot on.
 

Betamax*

Guest
The point I was trying to make that it didn't surprise me that AIG primary focus and attention was devoted towards #WINNING off ice over their on ice.

That's what you pay very expensive lawyers for. They worry about the case and devote their time and energy towards it so you don't have to. If corporations screeched to a halt every time there was a lawsuit against them nothing would ever get done.

I was referring to how it relates to the Canucks (focusing on off ice issues and cruise control on the on ice operations) as obviously AIG holds many other investments that they have to tend to.

As for hiring "very expensive lawyers" or any other experts ... they can't shield FA from all that negative publicity from the trial.

Besides making money i.e. operating the hockey team and treating it as a business, what was the other motivation owning the Canucks brings? Besides being fans themselves, prestige and reputation that on ice success would bring to their name.

Look, by purchasing the Canucks, one of the reasons (besides its money making potential) was that it could be a "reputation" builder, and elevate his family reputation within the community that in the past had not always been at a Gold Medal level.

Right now, I think their reputation is pretty solid within the community and its due to a large part was how they have run the Canucks and their associated charitable endeavors.

Anyway, if AIG owns a company other than the Canucks, that nets 30-50M profit in a year, how many of the general public would care?

Not too many.

If the Canucks net a ~30-50M profit in a year, the public would care, Hell yeah! Why? Because that would mean they would have went on an extended Playoffs run and quite possibly achieve the Holy Grail in Hockey.

Prestige and reputation. A trial which draws attention and allegations of impropriety and nefarious business conduct unto you during the purchase of the franchise, isn't exactly something that you can escape nor want or cover your ears and just let your "very expensive lawyers" take care of it ... especially with the publicity and interest in the case.

He had to face the music by testifying. You think that was enjoyable for him?

For someone at the time who isn't very comfortable in public speaking, that not exactly something to be dismissive of. And over several long months, hear others make negative claims and allegations against him that were published for any interested in the Newspapers/Tabloids and television news broadcasts.
 

Betamax*

Guest
I previously made reference to what another user stated but I guess it was deleted because I didn't source the exact commentary and discussion that followed. I searched it out and found it:

This was an exchange from the recent "Lebrun on Canucks heading into the Trade Deadine..." thread:


If you believe the scuttlebutt, missing the playoffs is not an option.

I'm sure the stadium game would be a much tougher sell, although I guess in fairness with only four games on the schedule between now and then it would be tough to generate much more pessimism than there is already..

If I was running the business I probably wouldn't want to intentionally sell a worse product for 1/3 of a season and completely undermine consumer confidence either.

I really don't like the sounds of this.

What scuttlebutt? This is the first time I'm hearing this...

You-know-who over at that other board. If I recall she would not qualify as an insider per HFB rules.. so it is definitely just scuttlebutt.
Of course it has not been clarified who would be suffering the consequences of a playoff miss, either - the players? the coaches? Probably not Gillis..

My take on it, if it is to be believed, is that they are not going to go shopping at the deadline but are also not going to give the core a free pass to stop competing for a playoff spot. If they can't make the cut players will be moved in the offseason.
But I mean now we are into interpretations of third- or fourth-hand information, so.. :sarcasm:

Well ... if that's the case, it looks like we've heard this story before:

I searched for quotes back from the time when AIG decided to relieve Nonis of his duties ... here were some interesting quotes said at that time:

source: http://www.canada.com/story_print.html?id=d9a95166-7559-4d0d-9e64-665950954e8c&sponsor=

By The Vancouver Sun, April 16, 2008

"Being in the playoffs and taking a good run at the Stanley Cup isn't optional for this team," said Aquilini. "[The fans] deserved a better season than the one we gave them."

and

"The style of play I like is winning and whatever that takes. The GM and the coach will have to decide [the style], as long as they're winning."

Do you think given time and experience of owning the team ... six years later, Mr. Aquilini has changed his outlook and would shoulder the blame on others (i.e. Players? and Coaches?) and not the GM per se as poster dave suggested?

To be honest, I'm not so sure.

GMMG has been on record that he would not "ask" a player with an NTC/NMC to waive it. But even after Sekeres and Price pressed him on the issue I think the 64.3M dollar question right now is two-fold if the Canucks miss the Playoffs .....

1) How many of the NTC of the core players are "full NTCs" and not just a partial one (i.e. they have only a select list of teams they can decline);

2) Will pressure from Ownership force GMMG (if he is retained) to take a different stance, especially if the Canucks fail to make the Playoffs? Right now at best you can say it's a 50/50 chance if you're an optimist.
 

Betamax*

Guest
GMMG has been on record that he would not "ask" a player with an NTC/NMC to waive it. But even after Sekeres and Price pressed him on the issue I think the 64.3M dollar question right now is two-fold if the Canucks miss the Playoffs .....

1) How many of the NTC of the core players are "full NTCs" and not just a partial one (i.e. they have only a select list of teams they can decline);

2) Will pressure from Ownership force GMMG (if he is retained) to take a different stance, especially if the Canucks fail to make the Playoffs? Right now at best you can say it's a 50/50 chance if you're an optimist.

I thought about this "thorny" issues of NTCs and if a player has a full NTC ... a certain scenario in my opinion that exists that could technically kinda save GMMG from maintaining his word as it relates to asking the question of a players' with a full NTC to consider waiving. e.g. if indeed a Kesler has a full NTC ....

Say, one of the top contending teams, like the Blackhawks feel (after seeing him with Kane during this Olympics for example) that he is the one piece that would make them the odds on favourite to do a repeat and they approach the Canucks with an aggressive trade offer (one that GMMG would seriously consider and improve their team over the long-term). I think GMMG is obligated to his franchise to relay that information to Kelser via his agent and say, I've got one of the top contenders that really wants you on their team, they think you're the guy that would put them over the top, what do you think about that?

He's not saying, he's just saying? Right? Or is that still going against his word?
 

Whale

Registered User
Jul 29, 2006
686
0
Victoria
Gillis said on TEAM that only the Sedins had full NMC's, everyone else is on NTC's that are more about players not wanting trades to certain markets or other limiting provisions.

He also said some interesting things about players asking for moves in a way that implied that someone with an NTC has asked to be traded. Of course he wouldn't go into details.

That said I don't believe anything he says any more. At the end of last season he said that Lou wouldn't be here and that there would be significant changes and that the team would be younger, bigger and stronger.

So yeah...
 

BobbyJazzLegs

Sorry 4 Acting Werd
Oct 15, 2013
3,393
4
I thought about this "thorny" issues of NTCs and if a player has a full NTC ... a certain scenario in my opinion that exists that could technically kinda save GMMG from maintaining his word as it relates to asking the question of a players' with a full NTC to consider waiving. e.g. if indeed a Kesler has a full NTC ....

Say, one of the top contending teams, like the Blackhawks feel (after seeing him with Kane during this Olympics for example) that he is the one piece that would make them the odds on favourite to do a repeat and they approach the Canucks with an aggressive trade offer (one that GMMG would seriously consider and improve their team over the long-term). I think GMMG is obligated to his franchise to relay that information to Kelser via his agent and say, I've got one of the top contenders that really wants you on their team, they think you're the guy that would put them over the top, what do you think about that?

He's not saying, he's just saying? Right? Or is that still going against his word?

I think that's absolutely the sort of scenario where he could ask a player to waive. I think he has left the door open for it with his previous comments.
 

doobie604

Registered User
Jan 19, 2007
726
2
Gillis said on TEAM that only the Sedins had full NMC's, everyone else is on NTC's that are more about players not wanting trades to certain markets or other limiting provisions.

He also said some interesting things about players asking for moves in a way that implied that someone with an NTC has asked to be traded. Of course he wouldn't go into details.

That said I don't believe anything he says any more. At the end of last season he said that Lou wouldn't be here and that there would be significant changes and that the team would be younger, bigger and stronger.

So yeah...

Over promise under deliver, this guy has gone back on his words so many times, people are finally catching on. True salesmen at work.
 

Betamax*

Guest
I think that's absolutely the sort of scenario where he could ask a player to waive. I think he has left the door open for it with his previous comments.

Yeah ... I think the Canucks are more in position to be a Tampa circa 2008 rather than the Canucks of 2008.

Here's is Darren Dreger's take on why Nonis was let go ...

http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/darren_dreger/?id=234470

(NO) PUSH FOR RICHARDS PUSHED OUT NONIS
4/16/2008 8:58:06 PM

source: http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/darren_dreger/?id=234470

Here are the interesting excerpts, IMO:

Dave Nonis said Wednesday he has no regrets from his tenure as general manager of the Vancouver Canucks and is proud of the fact he didn't give in to pressure to make a deal that may have saved his job.

In Nonis's words, that would have been "cowardly."

Leading up to the NHL trade deadline, it became clear to the former Canucks general manager that he and his boss Francesco Aquilini weren't on the same page.

According to sources, Vancouver's owner was willing to make trades that Nonis believed didn't make sense for the long term stability of the organization.

The fight to land Brad Richards from the Tampa Bay Lightning on Feb. 26 represents the turning point in the relationship.

The Canucks offered a package that included prospects Luc Bourdon and Cory Schneider along with a first, second and third-round draft pick for Richards. It's a proposal that Lightning general manager Jay Feaster won't confirm, but admits the team was strongly considering.

However, as talks heated up with Dallas, the Lightning needed more to address immediate needs.

Sources say the Lightning asked the Canucks for talented forward Ryan Kesler and coveted defenceman Alex Edler.

That just tells me that the trade deadline and the pressure point is where you have to explore your options if you're going to sell your top core players at a high point..

GMs get desperate during this time (either to save their jobs or pressure from Ownership to make the Playoffs like we saw with the Canucks in 2008).

Hell, if the Canucks are offered the 2014 equivalent of Luc Bourdon and Cory Schneider along with a first, second and third-round draft pick for a Kesler or Edler ... GMMG has to find a way to seal the deal, IMO.

In other words, I really hope that Canucks' Ownership has done a complete 180 from back in 2008 and that "Missing the Playoffs" IS an option ... i.e. "We're willing to take one step back, to move two steps forward" in the future.

I think the majority of Canucks supporters would be okay with that.
 
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Seattle Totems

Registered User
Apr 14, 2010
3,894
1,138
Could you imagine the melodrama around here had they bought out Luongo and still iced the same team....oh wait, the lack of a blue chip prospect and the extra $1.3m of cap space would have netted us a Crosby-lite Im sure.

Let's resurrect the old buy Luongo out straw-man argument instead of calling out Gillis for signing him to that stupid deal in the first place and refusing to trade him while he actually still had value. Yep. It's the fans that are stupid. Give the GM that signed Luongo, the core of this awful team, and our ill fitting coach to long term NTC's a total free pass.
 

BobbyJazzLegs

Sorry 4 Acting Werd
Oct 15, 2013
3,393
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Again, I really love Kesler and think he's our "guy" right now, but if you get monster value thrown at you, what can you do?

Also have to give Nonis props for taking that stance when he knew he was on the out (if it isn't just posturing).
 

Betamax*

Guest
Again, I really love Kesler and think he's our "guy" right now, but if you get monster value thrown at you, what can you do?

Also have to give Nonis props for taking that stance when he knew he was on the out (if it isn't just posturing).

Yeah ... in retrospect, you give him credit for not giving up on young roster players that have developed into impact players i.e. Kesler and Edler ... but the package offer of top prospects (Bourdon, The Cory and three picks) was a LOT (way too much, IMO) for a Richards ... even if it may have meant the Canucks made the Playoffs and won a round or two that season.
 

opendoor

Registered User
Dec 12, 2006
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Also have to give Nonis props for taking that stance when he knew he was on the out (if it isn't just posturing).

The only thing you should be giving props to is Richards' NTC and Feaster's idiocy because what Nonis offered was still way too much. He was offering pretty much every single non NHL asset of value the Canucks had at the time for Richards.
 

doobie604

Registered User
Jan 19, 2007
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Yeah ... in retrospect, you give him credit for not giving up on young roster players that have developed into impact players i.e. Kesler and Edler ... but the package offer of top prospects (Bourdon, The Cory and three picks) was a LOT (way too much, IMO) for a Richards ... even if it may have meant the Canucks made the Playoffs and won a round or two that season.

But we were in win now mode during that time and Sedin, Richards, Kesler would make us one of the top teams. Don't forget Richards was a point per game player and a monster playoff performer back then, he would of made a difference I'm pretty certain.
 
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