Post-Game Talk: Vancouver Canucks Eliminated from the Playoffs

[bandwagonesque]

Speaking of more dim moves. Why the hell would we give up a pick for Bowey?

Bowey was acquired solely to have a defenceman to expose, and they didn't give up a pick for him -- they moved down about 35 spots late in the draft. The difference in value of those picks is basically too small to calculate.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Bowey was acquired solely to have a defenceman to expose, and they didn't give up a pick for him -- they moved down about 35 spots late in the draft. The difference in value of those picks is basically too small to calculate.

Semanticus lirum larum!

 

[Icebreakers]

Actually looking back on it. Even if we beat Calgary we would still be eliminated from the playoffs.

and even if we beat MIN AND CGY, we would still miss the playoffs if Dallas wins their next game.

In reality, we werent close.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Semanticus lirum larum!

This isn't semantic at all. It's typical of discussion about Benning on the board. A large number of individually small exaggerations and lies are aggregated and repeated regularly, and when any one of them is pointed out whoever does so is accused of making a solely semantic objection. Another of the old favorites was saying Benning never tried to re-sign Leivo whenever he happened to be performing well with Calgary when in fact it was reported he offered him a similar contract. I don't disagree with the overall premise Benning was a poor GM, but it's tiresome to see people engaging in a weird, deliberate game whereby they knowingly say stuff about him that isn't real because they want to believe he was even worse than he was then ignore or attack anyone who objects.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

This isn't semantic at all. It's typical of discussion about Benning on the board. A large number of individually small exaggerations and lies are aggregated and repeated regularly, and when any one of them is pointed out whoever does so is accused of making a solely semantic objection. Another of the old favorites was saying Benning never tried to re-sign Leivo whenever he happened to be performing well with Calgary when in fact it was reported he offered him a similar contract. I don't disagree with the overall premise Benning was a poor GM, but it's tiresome to see people engaging in a weird, deliberate game whereby they knowingly say stuff about him that isn't real because they want to believe he was even worse than he was then ignore or attack anyone who objects.

I did not pay for the coffee I just had, I just downgraded a 50 € bill to 48€

 

[bandwagonesque]

I did not pay for the coffee I just had, I just downgraded a 50 € bill to 48€

This analogy is a non-sequitur that isn't comparable to the conversation you're trying to describe. I'm not claiming the Canucks didn't exchange a tiny amount of value for Bowey. I'm saying the statement "The Canucks gave up a pick for Bowey" is a minor but deliberate mischaracterization of what actually happened, of a type that follows a widespread and consistent pattern. Like ... when do you guys finally stop? Basically one or two posters still disagree Benning was an absolutely horrible GM.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

This analogy is a non-sequitur that isn't comparable to the conversation you're trying to describe. I'm not claiming the Canucks didn't exchange a tiny amount of value for Bowey. I'm saying the statement "The Canucks gave up a pick for Bowey" is a minor but deliberate mischaracterization of what actually happened, of a type that follows a widespread and consistent pattern. Like ... when do you guys finally stop? Basically one or two posters still disagree Benning was an absolutely horrible GM.

Sorry.

I just had to play your own game just a bit.

 

[me2]

Kylington was on waivers at the start of last season not this season.

How as Juolevi for Lammikko a dim move? Lammikko has been pretty good. You really don't watch the Canucks play do you?

Held onto failed property far too long.

 

[racerjoe]

The thing that's kind of crazy is how people here were down on Tanev, then he goes to Calgary & is not only arguably their top defender - on a legit contender - but also has stayed completely healthy.

That's worked out for the Flames remarkably & yet I feel like Benning would've been crucified if he signed Tanev to a long-term deal.

It’s not just that he went to Calgary, it was the contract he signed. If that was the ask it was a no brainer.

For instance I was against signing Tofu, until I saw what he signed for in Montreal then it was why wouldn’t we?

 

[logan5]

Of the 16 teams which others have continuously spent to the cap and gave up multiple 1st and 2nd round picks in an all-in attempt to make the playoffs?

Don’t know. That stat seemed like it was worth noting. Interpret any way you like.

 

[4Twenty]

At the time I think most we're okay with letting Tanev go, expecting that his injury problems would just continue. Most were mad about Toffoli not Tanev. (myself included)

In hindsight... man, imagine having him instead of Myers. OEL's so good he can play well with almost anyone, but having Tanev to play with Hughes (or even OEL) would've been huge.

Most people also weren’t ok with it. Just folks like yourself were.

Everyone knew Tanev was done here a year prior when they signed Myers. And the same folks I already referenced were just fine with that.

Most people didn’t need hindsight.


Plus we also saw Tanev and Myers on the same roster. How you choose Benn/Fantenburg’s partner on the 3rd pair rather than your hopeful franchise D’s partner he referred to as dad?

The same folks spent the 2020 offseason running him down while pumping up Nate Schmidt and also praising the signing of Hamonic…..lots of will easily replace Tanev type comments too.

For Tanev I’m glad he left the toxic heap and is getting the plaudits his play rightfully deserved all along.

Let’s not forget he was an after thought by the GM many of you were proud to martyr for and you still martyred for him and he didn’t even offer the guy you wanted (Toffoli) a deal and made really bad signings and still received nothing but praise.

It’s going to be hard to wipe some of the conversations I’ve read out of my mind when reading certain peoples posts.

Especially since it seems excuses like the above are still getting made.

 

[tradervik]

I did not pay for the coffee I just had, I just downgraded a 50 € bill to 48€

Not that I care about this particular debate, the correct analogy would be for someone to criticize you for foolishly paying 50 € for a coffee while ignoring that you got 48 € back.

 

[F A N]

Held onto failed property far too long.

At what time would you say the Canucks should have traded Juolevi and what was the expected return?

Tomatoes11 called the Juolevi for Lammikko trade a dim move because he preferred a 5th round pick. Is that your position as well?

 

[geebster]

Not that I care about this particular debate, the correct analogy would be for someone to criticize you for foolishly paying 50 € for a coffee while ignoring that you got 48 € back.

Not taking sides but this is a good post. Identified the logic exactly. I was gonna say something similar but just saw yours. Criticizing the Bowey pick up as wasting a pick or spending a pick is deliberate misrepresentation.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Most people also weren’t ok with it. Just folks like yourself were.

Everyone knew Tanev was done here a year prior when they signed Myers. And the same folks I already referenced were just fine with that.

Most people didn’t need hindsight.


Plus we also saw Tanev and Myers on the same roster. How you choose Benn/Fantenburg’s partner on the 3rd pair rather than your hopeful franchise D’s partner he referred to as dad?

The same folks spent the 2020 offseason running him down while pumping up Nate Schmidt and also praising the signing of Hamonic…..lots of will easily replace Tanev type comments too.

For Tanev I’m glad he left the toxic heap and is getting the plaudits his play rightfully deserved all along.

Let’s not forget he was an after thought by the GM many of you were proud to martyr for and you still martyred for him and he didn’t even offer the guy you wanted (Toffoli) a deal and made really bad signings and still received nothing but praise.

It’s going to be hard to wipe some of the conversations I’ve read out of my mind when reading certain peoples posts.

Especially since it seems excuses like the above are still getting made.

So you would have signed Tanev to that deal then? (or not complained had the previous management done it)

Benning is gone, its time to move on. Not sure why its such a personal thing you for. (LOL @ me Martyring for him when I said multiple times it was time to move on)

 

[timw33]

Of the 16 teams which others have continuously spent to the cap and gave up multiple 1st and 2nd round picks in an all-in attempt to make the playoffs?

Philadelphia, lol.

Paid 2 2nd round picks to move Ghostisbehre to Arizona (where they will get more picks when they trade his final year) to make room for Ristolainen, who cost 1st 2nd Hagg.

1st 2nd 2nd 2nd Hagg to downgrade Ghost to Ristolainen as part of their big D-core shuffle to push them forward.

 

[Tomatoes11]

Kylington was on waivers at the start of last season not this season.

How as Juolevi for Lammikko a dim move? Lammikko has been pretty good. You really don't watch the Canucks play do you?

It was dim because lammiko wasn’t worth anything at the time and you can find his type for free on waivers. No need to give up anything for them yet dim always does.

Now I get why you guys support dim. You don’t understand the actual market value of players. Lol

Yes, I watch all the Canuck games I can. Lammiko has been good but Travis Boyd has been much better and yes he was free every season. We even had Boyd . Lol

 

[Hit the post]

I did not pay for the coffee I just had, I just downgraded a 50 € bill to 48€

Zombo taught me the "Dine & Dash" method to settle restaurant debts

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Not that I care about this particular debate, the correct analogy would be for someone to criticize you for foolishly paying 50 € for a coffee while ignoring that you got 48 € back.

That is simply not true.

But lets not get in to this. Only thing @bandwagonesque does on these forums is try to derail discussion with semantics. That is his entire purpose of being here, and that is from his mouth.

 

[F A N]

Yes, I watch all the Canuck games I can.

Meaning you don't really watch Canucks games?

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

I don't give a flying f*** if other teams sucked, what I care about is that our inept ownership and management somehow let OUR TEAM suck for almost a decade.

Sucking is OK because other teams sucked implicitly lowers the bar. I don't think that should be the goal of the organization.

 

[me2]

At what time would you say the Canucks should have traded Juolevi and what was the expected return?

Tomatoes11 called the Juolevi for Lammikko trade a dim move because he preferred a 5th round pick. Is that your position as well?

Nope. A smarter GM would try to move on while the player is still worth something due to high draft. Benning waiting until Juolevi was waivers fodder is an error. Waivers fodder for waivers fodder.

 

[F A N]

Nope. A smarter GM would try to move on while the player is still with something due to high draft. Benning waiting until he's waivers fodder is an error.

You dodged my question. At what time would you say the Canucks should have traded Juolevi and what was the expected return?

 

[thenextone]

You dodged my question. At what time would you say the Canucks should have traded Juolevi and what was the expected return?

After the bubble playoffs and before the training camp picture of him passed out on the ice.

Lammiko was a good pickup but hardly value for a 5th OA pick. I would have used him to acquire a serviceable 2nd pair RHD from a team in cap hell (maybe in lieu of the 3rd for Schmidt).

 

[F A N]

After the bubble playoffs and before the training camp picture of him passed out on the ice.

Lammiko was a good pickup but hardly value for a 5th OA pick. I would have used him to acquire a serviceable 2nd pair RHD from a team in cap hell (maybe in lieu of the 3rd for Schmidt).

So had the Canucks traded Juolevi after the bubble playoffs and before the training camp picture of him "passed out on the ice," what would have been your expected return? "A serviceable 2nd pair RHD from a team in cap hell" - any ideas of who might have fit this description? Tyler Myers who we have already?