Post-Game Talk: Vancouver Canucks 4 vs. Philadelphia Flyers 1: Part 2. Irish Eyes Are Smiling Tonight

[arsmaster*]

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?fet...=avgEvenStrengthTOIPerGame&viewName=timeOnIce

You can make arguments for individual games but overall I think the 5v5 deployment makes sense. Kenins, Vey, Dorsett, Horvat are 11-14... Twins are 1-2... am I missing something?

*for the record it looks like Dorsett averages 0:25 PP/Kassian 0:39 PP per game.

I get looking at averages for the season when it's over, but we can look specifically at segments on time....which is what most of us are "complaining" about.

Dorsett is off the PP now, thank goodness.

It's also about usage when the game is on the line. He isn't a guy who should be out in the last 5 down a goal or up a goal, you just know the puck will be in your end. That's what the stats say anyways.

The fact we/you even feel the need to put Dorsett vs Kassian's PP icetime averages in perspective is the issue: One guy has a taylor made skillset for open ice, the other is an energy 4th liner with NO BUSINESS being on a PP.

One guy was continually toted out there while being unsuccessful, the other guy needed to produce at elite levels to even get the chance.


Kassian should have been given the same PP opportunity Linden Vey got from the get-go. I'm glad he's getting more now.

 

[arsmaster*]

It doesn't tell the story you want but it's accurate. If Dorsett is playing "long stretches of top 5 even strength minutes", he's also playing games where he plays much, much less. Or he wouldn't average the 13th most minutes.

Dorsett's usage changed near the end of November.

Dorsett's first 5 games of the season at under 10 minutes was never my issue, it's that he's got 5 games under 10 minutes since December 1st (and they weren't because the coach decided to use him less, it was because he got dinged by Kes, or had games with fights/misconducts).

 

[linden79]

Serious question - in what way do you think playing guys like Vey/Dorsett/Sbisa in roles that are over their heads is better deployment? Even Torts never did that last season.

Remember top sixtito?

 

[Scurr]

Dorsett's usage changed near the end of November.

Dorsett's first 5 games of the season at under 10 minutes was never my issue, it's that he's got 5 games under 10 minutes since December 1st (and they weren't because the coach decided to use him less, it was because he got dinged by Kes, or had games with fights/misconducts).

Then his numbers should be more influenced by December, January, February and half of March then just October, November. He has played more with injuries recently. Still the 13th forward in average ice-time.

 

[arsmaster*]

Then his numbers should be more influenced by December, January, February and half of March then just October, November. He has played more with injuries recently. Still the 13th forward in average ice-time.

The first 5 games are lowering his average, when over 2/3 of the season he's averaging significantly more.

That's my point. You like the average. I don't, because the average over the period I've listed is like 13.5 minutes, not 12.

Too much for a 4th liner, on top of the PP usage he should have never received. Same with 5 mins left in close games.

That was the whole purpose of rolling 4 lines, keeping your good players fresh for the full season, not for every game.

 

[Scurr]

The first 5 games are lowering his average, when over 2/3 of the season he's averaging significantly more.

That's my point. You like the average. I don't, because the average over the period I've listed is like 13.5 minutes, not 12.

Too much for a 4th liner, on top of the PP usage he should have never received. Same with 5 mins left in close games.

That was the whole purpose of rolling 4 lines, keeping your good players fresh for the full season, not for every game.

He also has 5 games around 15 minutes that are bringing his average up. Games that were for the most part played during a rash of injuries. I'm not a fan of all the PP ice or Dorsett being glued to the left side but his 5v5 ice-time hasn't been a big issue for me. Agree to disagree.

 

[fancouver]

Proud of the Canucks to beat the Broad Street Bullies on Pat Quinn night. Let's show them who's tough.

 

[Proto]

Dorsett's minutes are mostly down because of the time he spent with Horvat to start the season. Hilariously, even though he was the anchor keeping Horvat's results down, Dorsett's minutes have increased after moving away from Horvat.

I think it's abundantly clear that Kenins/Horvat/Hansen should be getting more icetime than whatever line Dorsett is on. I don't mind Dorsett, but his 5v5 results haven't been good this year, for whatever reason. Less minutes and a bit of rest might actually get him back on track for the post-season.

It's probably Dorsett or Kassian in the pressbox. Pick your poison.

 

[arsmaster*]

I just like a bigger spread between my good players and my bad players. Players who are performing badly shouldn't be getting more icetime than players who are performing well

Dorsett is above reproach. Kassian/Kenins will be the scratches in the playoffs, I have no doubts.

 

[me2]

Heart, character, grit, leadership, experience...these things don't show up on a stat sheet, but they do show up in the wins column. It's not all about zone time or shot attempts or whatever metric is all the rage now, not about fights or PIMs either. It's about being a team and playing for each other and building a group identity as you come together to pursue a goal. You can't isolate one player in a team sport like hockey and pick out numbers like that...it's a deceptive picture and detracts from what's really going on which is, they are playing together and growing together and building something good here, and Dorsett is a big part of that.

All I can say is how mother****ing good is Tanner Glass. Steps into the shoe of one of the heartiest, grittiest, characterish, experienced leaders and despite putting up 3 points on year and a 40% corsi has lead his team to a seasons with 20 more points than Dorsett did on that team and Dorsett's intangibles must have been worth 10 points themselves. His on ice performance can't be the reason, so he must be an upgrade on Dorsett's intangibles. If Dorsett is a 10/10 than makes Glass a Spinal Tapppish 11/10 on intangible, might be first 12 ever.

Tanner "12/10 intangibles" Glass.

 

[Verviticus]

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?fet...=avgEvenStrengthTOIPerGame&viewName=timeOnIce

You can make arguments for individual games but overall I think the 5v5 deployment makes sense. Kenins, Vey, Dorsett, Horvat are 11-14... Twins are 1-2... am I missing something?

*for the record it looks like Dorsett averages 0:25 PP/Kassian 0:39 PP per game.

really i'm whining about recent games. honestly i didn't have or notice a problem with dorsett until a while into the season because he played little time and was innocuous. at this point, especially in a game like philly, he did nothing of good and crushed the canucks for all infinity minutes of his time

I just like a bigger spread between my good players and my bad players. Players who are performing badly shouldn't be getting more icetime than players who are performing well

Dorsett is above reproach. Kassian/Kenins will be the scratches in the playoffs, I have no doubts.

this too! im all for giving a guy like higgins or burrows leeway on a down spell, but dorsett has been pretty awful for ages and he keeps getting rewarded. just like with sbisa, its like willie and i are watching two completely different games

if dorsett got sat a game and then 8-10 mins a few games and then when he got his ridiculous 3 point night was granted a bunch of ice time for that game and a couple more... fine, i like the carrot in that case. even if i dont like the player, the concept of rewarding him for success is OK with me. but as it is... hes just there flailing in a situation he can't handle

Dorsett's minutes are mostly down because of the time he spent with Horvat to start the season. Hilariously, even though he was the anchor keeping Horvat's results down, Dorsett's minutes have increased after moving away from Horvat.

I think it's abundantly clear that Kenins/Horvat/Hansen should be getting more icetime than whatever line Dorsett is on. I don't mind Dorsett, but his 5v5 results haven't been good this year, for whatever reason. Less minutes and a bit of rest might actually get him back on track for the post-season.

It's probably Dorsett or Kassian in the pressbox. Pick your poison.

hmm, arsenic or beer. tough choice.

 

[VanJack]

If you had a d-man with no goals during the regular season, how much powerplay time would he likely get?...oh, I forgot this is the 'Canuckleheads.....love 'Dan the Community Man'' Hamhuis, but on the pp, not so much....is there anyone on this team who can actually hit the net with a point-shot?

 

[Verviticus]

edler does it lots. more than average

 

[Bougieman]

Weber isn't bad from the point, either.