Post-Game Talk: Vancouver Canucks 2 @ Florida Panthers 5 - 1/11/22 - Who didn't score tonight?

[Gentle Man]

 

[pb1300]

thanks for sharing. glad that got some notice. it was a phenomenal goal and so unusual. i couldn't believe it when i saw it live. hints at some incredible potential from mamin.

Wonder if he was watching his fellow countryman Rantanen do it the other night, against the Laffs

 

[floridada]

I heard a lot of free tickets were given out. Can anyone confirm?

That's how I went to the game, lol. They emailed me with a code to get free tickets last week.

 

[kerrabria]

Does anybody else see a lot of upside in Juolevi? He plays such a crisp, decisive game.

 

[violaswallet]

Cookie sighting!!!

If Knight isn’t ready do we have to sign someone to a PTO?

 

[StrangeVision]

Does anybody else see a lot of upside in Juolevi? He plays such a crisp, decisive game.

He just needs to stay healthy.

 

[Gentle Man]

We are really close to reaching traffic jam status.

I don't even know where Acciari can slot in regularly. I doubt he would. So maybe depth.

Vatrano Tippett Thornton then would be fighting for another spot.

Jonas Johansson on covid protocol.

 

[Gizmo Tkachuk]

Johansson in COVID protocol. Bob is the only healthy goalie atm with a back to back this weekend.

....Can we play Lu? Only half kidding

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

Does anybody else see a lot of upside in Juolevi? He plays such a crisp, decisive game.

So far he looks like another depth guy with the likes of Carl and Kiers, for better or worse.

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

We are really close to reaching traffic jam status.

The injury bug will help them out at some point.

 

[Gizmo Tkachuk]

 

[KW]

Lovely conversation regarding the Mamin goal. It’s good explanation for people that are more novice to the sport. Wish we had more of this.

It will never get a goal of the year nomination because everyone will want to see McDavid “beat everyone” with a rush, but how often do you see pass timing, pass difficulty like this, followed up by even higher shot difficulty, a backhand one-timer, to the top corner? How long until we see a goal like this again… I might be wrong but I don’t ever remember seeing a backhand one timer with this kind of force, let alone coupled with a pass like this. Two relative no-names in NHL but one of the most amazing goals I’ve seen lately.

 

[pantherbot]

We are really close to reaching traffic jam status.

I don't even know where Acciari can slot in regularly. I doubt he would. So maybe depth.

Vatrano Tippett Thornton then would be fighting for another spot.

Jonas Johansson on covid protocol.

I'm totally fine with the traffic jam, makes guys need to compete harder. Look at Vatrano, he's been better since being benched. Hated how we couldn't do that in the past.

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

It will never get a goal of the year nomination because everyone will want to see McDavid “beat everyone” with a rush, but how often do you see pass timing, pass difficulty like this, followed up by even higher shot difficulty, a backhand one-timer, to the top corner? How long until we see a goal like this again… I might be wrong but I don’t ever remember seeing a backhand one timer with this kind of force, let alone coupled with a pass like this. Two relative no-names in NHL but one of the most amazing goals I’ve seen lately.

Yeah, that goal + pass is more impressive than what folks give credit for.

 

[Gentle Man]

Lmao.


There's our defenseman

 

[KW]

Wonder if he was watching his fellow countryman Rantanen do it the other night, against the Laffs

I’m gonna be picky here; Lundell’s pass was from a (faster) moving puck so more difficult and Mamin’s strike was on his backhand, way harder, especially with that pace. Yeah, good one to compare to, but not in the same ballpark…

 

[pantherbot]

Very interesting. Bob is a bit of a mixed bag, but actually mostly good, and statistically he’s ranking well in the “doing better than expected” category.

For example, if sv% of high danger is pretty far down the list, BUT his sv% of high danger above expected is among the top 10 or so. This to me means that the high danger he faces are very high danger and he’s still able to stop noticeably more than expected. Thus the defense gives him a shit sandwich more often than other goalies get it, so although his high danger sv% at first glance sucks BUT somehow he’s doing much better than expected. This can only be if the high danger really are very high danger, but Bob still stops many of them.

You can also see it in his expected high danger save % which is low, implying that he has more high danger chances.

But another thing that's interesting is his rebound control. He has the highest rebounds above expected of goalies that have played more than 20 games. So, the higher danger chances may also be a result of his poor rebound control, which is something we've all seen. I also recall a highly regarded goalie analyst saying that rebound control is one of the most telling stats for a goalie because so much goes into controlling a rebound (positioning, anticipation, control, etc.) that the amount of rebounds a goalie allows speaks to how well they're playing.

Also notable that among the top goalies, his sv% above expected for low and medium danger shots is pretty much at zero. So he's average at those.

I think the stats kind of all reflect what we've seen with Bob. He has some spectacular games and can be dominant at times, but then he can have a stretch of not great games and gives up a lot of rebounds. I think he's been much better this season, just wish for more consistency. If we get monster bob in the playoffs, we have a real chance to go far.

 

[kerrabria]

We are really close to reaching traffic jam status.

I don't even know where Acciari can slot in regularly. I doubt he would. So maybe depth.

Vatrano Tippett Thornton then would be fighting for another spot.

Jonas Johansson on covid protocol.

In the unlikely scenario that all 18 of our forwards are healthy at once:

Verhaeghe - Barkov - Reinhart
Huberdeau - Bennett - Duclair
Marchment - Lundell - Acciari/Mamin
Lomberg/Luostarinen - Luostarinen/Acciari - Hornqvist
Thornton, Lomberg/Luostarinen/Acciari/Mamin

Denisenko, Tippett, Heponiemi to the minors
Vatrano traded

Then in the offseason when at least three of Marchment, Mamin, Acciari, and Thornton walk, Hippo and Denisenko graduate to full time NHLers and show us what they got.

 

[KW]

You can also see it in his expected high danger save % which is low, implying that he has more high danger chances.

But another thing that's interesting is his rebound control. He has the highest rebounds above expected of goalies that have played more than 20 games. So, the higher danger chances may also be a result of his poor rebound control, which is something we've all seen. I also recall a highly regarded goalie analyst saying that rebound control is one of the most telling stats for a goalie because so much goes into controlling a rebound (positioning, anticipation, control, etc.) that the amount of rebounds a goalie allows speaks to how well they're playing.

Also notable that among the top goalies, his sv% above expected for low and medium danger shots is pretty much at zero. So he's average at those.

I think the stats kind of all reflect what we've seen with Bob. He has some spectacular games and can be dominant at times, but then he can have a stretch of not great games and gives up a lot of rebounds. I think he's been much better this season, just wish for more consistency. If we get monster bob in the playoffs, we have a real chance to go far.

Agreed and that’s fair. Your points also highlight how the advanced stats can fail, by basically not being advanced enough. They do not carry the cause-effect analysis to completion much of the time, which is why the good old fashioned eye test has a major role.

Your example about rebounds is great. If Bob gives off a bad rebound and a goal is scored from high danger, that wasn’t the D’s fault but often people might say it is. OTOH if Bob purposely steers a rebound to the D so that they can start a counter attack immediately, but the D isn’t ready but coughs up the puck, then the rebound is the D’s fault.

 

[kerrabria]

Lmao.


There's our defenseman

This actually reminds me of something I was thinking about a few weeks ago.
Over the past 15 years, basketball has gone from having 5 distinct positions to being pretty much positionless and far more about mixing and matching player types/styles. I think hockey is trending in a similar direction.

You will never convince me that Makar and Hughes (the latter of whom I actually saw basket hanging last game) are real and serious defensemen. Somebody like Acciari who is an ace on faceoffs, a great shot blocker, can handle physicality in the corners and in front of the net...I could totally see him taking shifts on the blue line--especially when the second line of Huby - Bennett - Duke can't win faceoffs.

 

[kerrabria]

So far he looks like another depth guy with the likes of Carl and Kiers, for better or worse.

Disagree that he's in the same category as Carlsson and Kiersted. Carlsson looks like a guy destined for a career as a bottom pair, PPQB. Kiersted has been hot-and-cold, and I don't know if he's an AHLer or a solid bottom 4 guy. Juolevi looks like a guy with the tools and brain to become a top pair d-man. Honestly reminds me of Malkin with the way he carries himself on the ice and moves the puck.

 

[BabyBennettov]

Man, what a lineup !

To think that we have on our 5th line, a former skinny second-rounder we all think could play, a veteran like Thornton which was basically our « feel good story » of a signing for a Cup run as a 13/14th forward, the first-rounder that was penciled as our n2 RW coming into the year… AND…

Our fourth-line center Cookie, and first-unit PKer, best faceoff-man, former 20-goal-scorer as an extra for that line…

LOL

And only Vatrano makes debate somewhat on the higher-lines.

It’s ridiculous.

 

[BabyBennettov]

Disagree that he's in the same category as Carlsson and Kiersted. Carlsson looks like a guy destined for a career as a bottom pair, PPQB. Kiersted has been hot-and-cold, and I don't know if he's an AHLer or a solid bottom 4 guy. Juolevi looks like a guy with the tools and brain to become a top pair d-man. Honestly reminds me of Malkin with the way he carries himself on the ice and moves the puck.

Getting the feeling more and more…

And pretty sure this is gonna be it !

But the Juolevi-trade will end up being Zito’s « I’m your daddy » statement to Dale Tallon’s incredible trade-skills we could all regret… Regret no more.

Zito is the man.

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

This actually reminds me of something I was thinking about a few weeks ago.
Over the past 15 years, basketball has gone from having 5 distinct positions to being pretty much positionless and far more about mixing and matching player types/styles. I think hockey is trending in a similar direction.

You will never convince me that Makar and Hughes (the latter of whom I actually saw basket hanging last game) are real and serious defensemen. Somebody like Acciari who is an ace on faceoffs, a great shot blocker, can handle physicality in the corners and in front of the net...I could totally see him taking shifts on the blue line--especially when the second line of Huby - Bennett - Duke can't win faceoffs.

It's about effort/60 which is nothing new since GMs are always on the lookout on how to squeeze more production per $$$. Centers are valued above every other position because they have a bigger effect on the outcome by expectation of being involved all over the ice. Some guys will not put up points like some players but they'll have a bigger impact on whether a given game is won or lost by having an bigger impact over the course of the game. This is why I value Barkov or even a guy like Verhaeghe over Huby, Weegar and Forsling over Ekblad.

Titles are, or at least they should be, meaningless for GMs because they are looking for the right composition for the team. Makar and Hughes are defensemen by designation but that has little do with the in-game events when they join or lead the attack and some forward has to cover for him aka become a dman momentarily. Therefore, forwards have to learn how to defend which in turn means that they have to become like centers/generalists.

 

[Jean Luc Discard]

Disagree that he's in the same category as Carlsson and Kiersted. Carlsson looks like a guy destined for a career as a bottom pair, PPQB. Kiersted has been hot-and-cold, and I don't know if he's an AHLer or a solid bottom 4 guy. Juolevi looks like a guy with the tools and brain to become a top pair d-man. Honestly reminds me of Malkin with the way he carries himself on the ice and moves the puck.

Well, I haven't really noticed him or even paid much attention to him. In my eyes he's made couple of good moves but so has Carl and Kiers thus far.