Confirmed with Link: [VAN/WIN] Canucks acquire 2022 3rd Round Pick for D Nate Schmidt

[RandV]

And re: perceived shilling.

I've never bought the argument that there are secret agents who are secretly posting on places like here. That's just me.

But there's 2 lines of thinking.

The first goes in line with what I say. I don't think the Canucks feel that there is a need to address or change public perceptions and that they are on the 'right track' and yadda yadda yadda.

The other is that ownership seems to be sensitive of how the public perceives them, going so far as to threaten legal action and call a reporter a prick for suggesting that they may have been involved in hiring decisions with the team.

So, believe what you want. I'd argue either is plausible.

Yeah in this case it's probably just different fans with different opinions at different points in time, but it certainly raises the eyebrow going from how much praise Benning got in getting Schmidt for just a 3rd to a lot of posts the last little while leading up to this trade saying how little value Schmidt has and that's probably all he's worth.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

Or, the fit didn't really work. We were incentivized to take OEL (who undoubtably has a higher ceiling) by being given Garland as well.

And on a team where the one abundance we have on D is puckmovers, we got rid of 5.9 million on the cap for 4 years without a red cent of retention.

I eagerly await seeing what RD we get. If Benning signs Dougie Hamilton for $6 million then I'll celebrate with you. However, looking at this list.... I fear the tragedy to come:

PLAYER	TEAM	AGE	POS	HANDED	CAP HIT
1. Dougie Hamilton	CAR	28	RD	Right	$5,750,000
2. Tyson Barrie	EDM	29	RD	Right	$3,750,000
3. Brandon Montour	FLA	27	LD/RD	Right	$3,850,000
4. David Savard	TBL	30	RD	Right	$4,250,000
5. Travis Hamonic	VAN	30	RD	Right	$1,250,000
6. Connor Carrick	NJD	27	RD	Right	$1,500,000
7. Cody Ceci	PIT	27	RD	Right	$1,250,000
8. Anthony Deangelo	-	25	RD	Right	$4,800,000
9. Tucker Poolman	WPG	28	RD	Right	$775,000
10. Jani Hakanpää	CAR	29	RD	Right	$750,000
11. Erik Gudbranson	NSH	29	RD	Right	$4,000,000
12. Jason Demers	ARI	33	RD	Right	$4,500,000
13. Sami Vatanen	DAL	30	LD/RD	Right	$2,000,000
14. Michael Stone	CGY	31	RD	Right	$700,000
15. Andy Welinski	ANA	28	RD	Right	$750,000
16. Zach Bogosian	TOR	30	RD	Right	$1,000,000
17. Matt Tennyson	NJD	31	RD	Right	$700,000
18. Ben Thomas	TBL	25	RD	Right	$700,000
19. Tyler Lewington	NSH	26	RD	Right	$700,000
20. Greg Pateryn	SJS	31	RD	Right	$2,250,000

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

k...

The following players were not on the team before Benning:

Petersson
Miller
Boeser
Hoglander
Podkolzin
Garland
Dickinson
Pearson
Motte

Hughes
Rathbone

Demko.

And this is me leaving out a player like OEL who very well may make a lot of people eat their words.

In 2020, we defeated the defending Stanley Cup champions after beating Minnesota in the play-ins.

I'm aware that the last 7 years have been primarily bleak.

But post 2017, I like the direction.

 

[Bleach Clean]

The group who wanted to waive Edler after he had a bad year under Torts?

The group who eviscerated the Miller trade?

The group who whined when we 'only got' Motte in the Vanek deal when they wanted a 7th round pick instead?

The group who whined (and some of whom continue to whine) about losing Shinkaruk?

The group who were apoplectic that we kept Markstrom over Lack?

The group who were dead convinced that Green was ruining Boeser by sitting him out the first two games? Or ruining Hughes by not giving him pp1 point position until the 6th game of the season?

The group who worked themselves into a frenzy over the mistaken assumption that 'hurr durr Benning" would choose Carlo the year we took Boeser?

The group who constantly works themselves into a frenzy about hypotheticals?

The group who never owns their misses, but bleats on and on with the benefit of hindsight when they get one right?

Is that the infallible group you're referring to?

Not infallible, just correct the majority of the time. Your frame is a strawman.

I question your recollection on Edler, Markstrom/Lack, Boeser/Green. You'll have to do a lot there to show HFCanucks being behind those statements. However, I will grant Miller, Vanek/Motte and Boeser/Carlo. There was negative reaction to each and the reasons are varied. However, I enjoy you listing these in point form.

I would like to return your method in kind. Shall we take it to the management thread? If you legitimately want to assert Benning's record on the points, and where this forum landed vs where he did, I'm game. Are you?

 

[Rumsfeld]

Please address the point I made. If he thinks the leadership/direction of this team is so poisonous, then why was it 'would prefer to be traded' and not, 'get me the f*** out of dodge'?

Maybe, just maybe, "prefers to be traded" really did mean "get me the eff out of dodge"?

As evidenced by him accepting a trade to the biggest dump in the NHL?

Very few players actually announce that they're going to sit out a season unless they're moved, especially a guy who's only played for his team for a single underwhelming season. He knows the optics on that from a fan perspective would be terrible.

He pretty clearly wanted the f**k out.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I was anticipating this, which is why I stated that there is nothing wrong with being skeptical of or analyzing trade rumors.

The issue is with writing off the source as "being worse than FOX News" and then immediately accepting the "worse than FOX News" rumor as being the gospel truth.

Unless I missed something, how do you know that Schmidt was unhappy?

Were they not saying that Schmidt may return to the Canucks..?..This was not a total dire situation.

I dont know why Schmidt was unhappy..nobody does...and yes, I do have disdain for a lot of the so called hockey 'journalists' in Vancouver...

 

[Zanon]

Really weird the whole situation with Schmidt, and now he's a Jet. Don't get it.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

I eagerly await seeing what RD we get. If Benning signs Dougie Hamilton for $6 million then I'll celebrate with you. However, looking at this list.... I fear the tragedy to come:

PLAYER	TEAM	AGE	POS	HANDED	CAP HIT
1. Dougie Hamilton	CAR	28	RD	Right	$5,750,000
2. Tyson Barrie	EDM	29	RD	Right	$3,750,000
3. Brandon Montour	FLA	27	LD/RD	Right	$3,850,000
4. David Savard	TBL	30	RD	Right	$4,250,000
5. Travis Hamonic	VAN	30	RD	Right	$1,250,000
6. Connor Carrick	NJD	27	RD	Right	$1,500,000
7. Cody Ceci	PIT	27	RD	Right	$1,250,000
8. Anthony Deangelo	-	25	RD	Right	$4,800,000
9. Tucker Poolman	WPG	28	RD	Right	$775,000
10. Jani Hakanpää	CAR	29	RD	Right	$750,000
11. Erik Gudbranson	NSH	29	RD	Right	$4,000,000
12. Jason Demers	ARI	33	RD	Right	$4,500,000
13. Sami Vatanen	DAL	30	LD/RD	Right	$2,000,000
14. Michael Stone	CGY	31	RD	Right	$700,000
15. Andy Welinski	ANA	28	RD	Right	$750,000
16. Zach Bogosian	TOR	30	RD	Right	$1,000,000
17. Matt Tennyson	NJD	31	RD	Right	$700,000
18. Ben Thomas	TBL	25	RD	Right	$700,000
19. Tyler Lewington	NSH	26	RD	Right	$700,000
20. Greg Pateryn	SJS	31	RD	Right	$2,250,000

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I'm not big on the free agent market for RD either.

I think Schenn or Hamonic make sense for one of the RD spots, and then hopefully find a team in a bit of cap trouble and use cap space to get a favorable deal on an RD under contract.

Or, take a placeholder for a year, and see what opens up in the next off season.

We have gone, in like a week, from a team that needed everything to go right to have a shot at the playoffs, to a team with some possibility. It's okay if this year is transitional.

For the record, I don't even like Hamilton. i would obviously take him at 6 million, but I don't want him at 8.5 or 9.

 

[Hollywood Burrows]

I think you’re under a false assumption here that shilling has to be a widespread, coordinated attack. It could just be as simple as that being one PR person, or just one person who’s ITK with management.

Tommycooked on twitter - an account Francesco Aquilini follows - is another one. Mysteriously tweeting about stuff before it happens - e.g., referencing that canucks twitter is about to explode prior to the OEL trade. I’m not saying it’s widespread on every medium and coordinated with some external PR firm like Barcagate. I’m saying that there are definitely one offs that engage in the behavior I’m referencing.

There’s a reason that I only referenced the one person. I’m not sure why you are struggling to understand this.

loool damn I'm missing out by ignoring canucks stuff on twitter. the tommycooked account is hilarious

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Not infallible, just correct the majority of the time. Your frame is a strawman.

I question your recollection on Edler, Markstrom/Lack, Boeser/Green. You'll have to do a lot there to show HFCanucks being behind those statements. However, I will grant Miller, Vanek/Motte and Boeser/Carlo. There was negative reaction to each and the reasons are varied. However, I enjoy you listing these in point form.

I would like to return your method in kind. Shall we take it to the management thread? If you legitimately want to assert Benning's record on the points, and where this forum landed vs where he did, I'm game. Are you?

I'm absolutely game for that conversation. Whether we move it to that thread, or to PMs, if you want an earnest conversation on this topic, I would welcome it.

However, I have to head out now so it will have to be picked up later on this evening or in the next few days.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I'm absolutely game for that conversation. Whether we move it to that thread, or to PMs, if you want an earnest conversation on this topic, I would welcome it.

However, I have to head out now so it will have to be picked up later on this evening or in the next few days.

Next few days it is. I will start the conversation there.

 

[racerjoe]

These posts read like propaganda

That’s like the one account that - above all else - I would bet on with a connection to the front office. Seems like company lines lmao

irony… I reported this user as a well you know, now I can’t report anymore… thanks mods.

 

[Rumsfeld]

I dont know why Schmidt was unhappy..nobody does...and yes, I do have disdain for a lot of the so called hockey 'journalists' in Vancouver...

Are you actually serious?

Do you think happy people quit their jobs to go live in Winnipeg for six years?

Like, what would it actually take for you to be convinced the guy was unhappy. What a bizarre hill to die on.

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

I'm not big on the free agent market for RD either.

I think Schenn or Hamonic make sense for one of the RD spots, and then hopefully find a team in a bit of cap trouble and use cap space to get a favorable deal on an RD under contract.

Or, take a placeholder for a year, and see what opens up in the next off season.

We have gone, in like a week, from a team that needed everything to go right to have a shot at the playoffs, to a team with some possibility. It's okay if this year is transitional.

For the record, I don't even like Hamilton. i would obviously take him at 6 million, but I don't want him at 8.5 or 9.

I actually agree that we have a possible playoff team next year with OEL, Garland and Dickinson. That is why I find this trade so perlplexing. I can only assume we need the cap to sign Pettersson / Hughes, because the UFA crop is crap. Losing Schmidt makes our D worse.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Next few days it is. I will start the conversation there.

Cheers.

Do me a favour and @ me. I won't avoid the convo, but I don't want to get distracted by life and forget it.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

The group who wanted to waive Edler after he had a bad year under Torts?

The group who eviscerated the Miller trade?
....
Is that the infallible group you're referring to?

You've got some points, but other things are grossly off here.

Like, Shinkaruk was about perceived value, not the player itself. There have been a billion discussions about this so I won't delve into this further.

Markstrom over Lack, I don't recall that being a main talking point. It was more Miller over Lack. Did you misspeak here?

Ragging on people for 'working themselves into a frenzy' over hypotheticals is kind of funny when we can directly look at the Holtby signing. As one recent example. I don't agree with the characterization of 'working themselves into a frenzy', yeah, there are some people who do that, but others provide an explanation behind their thoughts beyond a simple kneejerk reaction...which of course is reduced by characterizing anyone making those arguments as being demented/high strung/whatever.

Same thing with 'benefit of hindsight.' This is just straight up not true and again I'll hold up Holtby as a single example of such. Others, off the top of my head, include Gudbranson and Virtanen. Folks made their projections or examined a player and made a call on them.

No one is infallible and folks make mistakes. For example, I f***ed up the other day when talking about Virtanen and offers being on the table. @F A N pointed it out and I owned up to it. I've been pretty vocal about OEL and how I think he's going to perform (good in the immediate short term, not good longterm/overall) and I could be wrong there.

It doesn't mean that the way I'm approaching making those decisions is bad or wrong. What would be useful is if people could take the time to actually argue in support of Benning's moves. Some dude made a post talking about how he thinks the Canucks defense as a group will perform and how they'll be utilized. It was thoughtful.

I find with people who are more supportive of Benning than not, there's a real lack of not showing their work, for lack of a better term.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

lol 44 pages on this already, or did we just reuse the acquisition thread?

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

I actually agree that we have a possible playoff team next year with OEL, Garland and Dickinson. That is why I find this trade so perlplexing. I can only assume we need the cap to sign Pettersson / Hughes, because the UFA crop is crap. Losing Schmidt makes our D worse.

I think it's about a less redundant use of cap space.

In Hughes and OEL, (and potentially Rathbone) we have 3 players who offer very similar skillsets to Schmidt.

With the fact he wants out (which may have enhanced our interest in OEL) this just makes sense. We need a stout, proper RD.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

This thread has veered way off course.

 

[The Poacher]

I'm not big on the free agent market for RD either.

I think Schenn or Hamonic make sense for one of the RD spots, and then hopefully find a team in a bit of cap trouble and use cap space to get a favorable deal on an RD under contract.

Or, take a placeholder for a year, and see what opens up in the next off season.

We have gone, in like a week, from a team that needed everything to go right to have a shot at the playoffs, to a team with some possibility. It's okay if this year is transitional.

For the record, I don't even like Hamilton. i would obviously take him at 6 million, but I don't want him at 8.5 or 9.

The problem is I don’t think Benning sees this as a transitional year. His job is more than likely on the line if the Canucks miss the playoffs. I don’t think he can afford to be patient. That makes me nervous.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Were they not saying that Schmidt may return to the Canucks..?..This was not a total dire situation.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here, sorry.

I dont know why Schmidt was unhappy..nobody does...and yes, I do have disdain for a lot of the so called hockey 'journalists' in Vancouver...

But you were being dismissive about the rumors of him wanting out or being unhappy and then were just characterizing him as being unhappy, as though you were accepting it. It's a really quick 180.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

Completely random, but the rumor that Jim Benning promising Schmidt that he was willing to do 'anything' to improve the Canucks and then trading him strikes me as a distinctly Brian Burke move, if circumstances were slightly different.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

You've got some points, but other things are grossly off here.

Like, Shinkaruk was about perceived value, not the player itself. There have been a billion discussions about this so I won't delve into this further.

Markstrom over Lack, I don't recall that being a main talking point. It was more Miller over Lack. Did you misspeak here?

Ragging on people for 'working themselves into a frenzy' over hypotheticals is kind of funny when we can directly look at the Holtby signing. As one recent example. I don't agree with the characterization of 'working themselves into a frenzy', yeah, there are some people who do that, but others provide an explanation behind their thoughts beyond a simple kneejerk reaction...which of course is reduced by characterizing anyone making those arguments as being demented/high strung/whatever.

Same thing with 'benefit of hindsight.' This is just straight up not true and again I'll hold up Holtby as a single example of such. Others, off the top of my head, include Gudbranson and Virtanen. Folks made their projections or examined a player and made a call on them.

No one is infallible and folks make mistakes. For example, I f***ed up the other day when talking about Virtanen and offers being on the table. @F A N pointed it out and I owned up to it. I've been pretty vocal about OEL and how I think he's going to perform (good in the immediate short term, not good longterm/overall) and I could be wrong there.

It doesn't mean that the way I'm approaching making those decisions is bad or wrong. What would be useful is if people could take the time to actually argue in support of Benning's moves. Some dude made a post talking about how he thinks the Canucks defense as a group will perform and how they'll be utilized. It was thoughtful.

I find with people who are more supportive of Benning than not, there's a real lack of not showing their work, for lack of a better term.

We don't have to relitigate Granlund/Shinkaruk. But it was based on an external perception of his worth, there were no rumours that we were going to get something way better.
And what we got was considerably better than Shink, and I'm no Granlund lover.

Markstrom over Lack was not a misstep on my part. There were many people who were beside themselves when we dealt Lack and kept Markstrom.

Much of the rest probably lies in the nebulous nature of trying to address and characterize a group.

In broad terms, perhaps I'm seen to be speaking for "Benning Bros" and you're speaking for "Benning haters" or however you want to call it. But the problem with this, is that we will then take each other to task over opinions that we may not have actually individually held.

 

[m9]

Wasnt JT Miller supposed to asking for a trade out of town..?....How did that go..?..Sorry, but I don't buy into every two bit Twitter rumour that so and so are leaving the 'tire fire'...

Schmidt never did officially ask for a trade.

The local media never said anything about Miller asking for a trade. It was actually the opposite - they shot it down. That was just people talking on Twitter/message boards/etc.

You've pointed to this example multiple times in the past. You're wrong. Stop using it.

 

[m9]

On Schmidt - I wasn't as enamoured with the acquisition in the first place as others. Seemed weird Vegas would dump him for cheap. Doesn't seem so weird now. The contract isn't great which is why he was worth a 3rd then and worth a 3rd now.