Confirmed with Link: [VAN/NYI] Canucks acquire F Anthony Beauvillier, F Aatu Raty, Conditional 1st in ‘23 or ‘24 for F Bo Horvat (25% Retention) - Part II

[VanJack]

The reasons why the Canucks prioritized the signing of first Boeser and then Miller over extending Horvat, may never be fully known.

The only working theory is that the Canucks had Horvat pegged as 60-point center and figured they'd be able to extend him for something close to what he was already making. But as the season unfolded, his career year basically priced him out of Vancouver. So the likely explanation is that the Canucks gambled and lost.

But once the decision to trade him was made, the return basically in line with most deals for a player like Horvat. The price was a first round draft pick; a Grade A level prospect and and everyday player.

Even Benning thought he had managed that when he traded Ryan Kesler for Nick Bonino, Luca Sbisa and a first rounder (24th overall, Jared McCann).

At the time he was acquired, Sbisa was a promising young d-man who looked like he might be able to patrol the Canuck blueline for years. Unfortunately we all know how that worked out.

Bonino was a useful depth center making a very reasonable $1.5m a season with term on his contract. So Jimbo inexplicably trades him to the Pens in the Sutter deal. He then turns around and re-ups Sutter for five times what Bonino was making. As for Bonino, who turned out to be a better center all along, he went on to win a Cup with the Pens.

Finally, Jared McCann lasted a couple of years in the Canuck organization before he was sacrificed in the ill-fated Gudbranson trade.

So in the end the Canucks had nothing to show for trading Kesler, one the best two-way centers in team history. Fingers crossed the Horvat deal turns out a lot differently.

 

[Gurn]

I'm not upset we traded Horvat, I am however, very annoyed that we had to.

 

[RobertKron]

The reasons why the Canucks prioritized the signing of first Boeser and then Miller over extending Horvat, may never be fully known.

The only working theory is that the Canucks had Horvat pegged as 60-point center and figured they'd be able to extend him for something close to what he was already making. But as the season unfolded, his career year basically priced him out of Vancouver. So the likely explanation is that the Canucks gambled and lost.

But once the decision to trade him was made, the return basically in line with most deals for a player like Horvat. The price was a first round draft pick; a Grade A level prospect and and everyday player.

Even Benning thought he had managed that when he traded Ryan Kesler for Nick Bonino, Luca Sbisa and a first rounder (24th overall, Jared McCann).

At the time he was acquired, Sbisa was a promising young d-man who looked like he might be able to patrol the Canuck blueline for years. Unfortunately we all know how that worked out.

Bonino was a useful depth center making a very reasonable $1.5m a season with term on his contract. So Jimbo inexplicably trades him to the Pens in the Sutter deal. He then turns around and re-ups Sutter for five times what Bonino was making. As for Bonino, who turned out to be a better center all along, he went on to win a Cup with the Pens.

Finally, Jared McCann lasted a couple of years in the Canuck organization before he was sacrificed in the ill-fated Gudbranson trade.

So in the end the Canucks had nothing to show for trading Kesler, one the best two-way centers in team history. Fingers crossed the Horvat deal turns out a lot differently.

Cool your jets, there, Jim.

 

[Nucker101]

I'm not upset we traded Horvat, I am however, very annoyed that we had to.

After seeing him in the bubble, I wonder if we missed out on some great playoff performances from him during all these years of being shit. We'll see this year maybe.

 

[Breakers]

Well when you gamble and only get one pick in the draft this could be a huge letdown if the islanders go on a surge.

With retention there should have been more picks

 

[F A N]

I’m of the mindset that you allocate the appropriate cap space based upon what everyone understands are your team’s greatest needs. If two players of equal skill fit the bill just take the cheaper of the two. For many teams including the Islanders Horvat fit their greatest needs and there was so one else available to fill that role. It’s all supply and demand and his asking price was fair. It’s basic economics really. You don’t deny your team the opportunity to compete for the Stanley Cup by making such ridiculous rules in your head as some of you are doing that you shouldn’t spend more than 10% of your cap on someone like Horvat even though he may fulfill your teams greatest needs. That’s just plain stupid- really, it is.

But how often do you get to choose between "two players of equal skill [who] fit the bill?" Finding value is important no doubt, it's not easy to do so with your top players, at least not long term.

I don't disagree with what you said, but there's a difference between overpaying a core player to keep competing for a Cup and trying to get there. Horvat is being paid like a first line player that you can win with. If he's driving his own line and scoring 40 goals a season then certainly he's worth the price.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

You don't have to know much about hockey to see that the Islanders are not going to be good for the next 8 years.

He prioritize money over winning. I'm guessing he got far too comfortable with losing over the last decade. Good riddance.

Bo is a fine player and person. It was weird to see people think he'd want to sign in a better situation. All that's come out from his side is all about $$$. Good for him, but I don't want that on my team. That's been the whole culture of the team lately. Nobody wants to play their best until that contract year.

 

[Gurn]

Bo is a fine player and person. It was weird to see people think he'd want to sign in a better situation. All that's come out from his side is all about $$$. Good for him, but I don't want that on my team. That's been the whole culture of the team lately. Nobody wants to play their best until that contract year.

The Islanders are currently in 15th spot; 11 teams in front of us.
I'd say he signed with a better team.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

The Islanders are currently in 15th spot; 11 teams in front of us.
I'd say he signed with a better team.

Eh, it's like moving from the Titanic to the Britannic.

 

[seafoam]

Did you guys get to see this? As an Islanders fan, I had chills down my spine.



If the Islanders make the playoffs, there will be more of this to come. I hope the trade works out for both clubs…Räty is a great prospect, and a really well spoken/high character person. I hope he pans out AND more for VAN.

 

[Rehabguy]

Horvat is being paid like a first line player that you can win with. If he's driving his own line and scoring 40 goals a season then certainly he's worth the price.

Yes that’s what he’s being paid for. The Isles tried and failed for 5 years to find the right player to play alongside Barzal when it looks like all we needed was the right center for him. Horvat figured out Barzal in 2 days what everyone else could not in 5 years. I saw at least 5 prime scoring chances including a goal and 2 posts in just 2 games. It’s going to be a goal fest for Horvat with Barzal feeding the puck to him. It begins however with Horvat winning the face off and getting the puck to Barzal. If Horvat can score 30+ goals without Barzal imagine what he could do with that little wizard feeding him. Did Horvat ever have that good a setup man with the Nucks?

 

[CherryToke]

 

[F A N]

Yes that’s what he’s being paid for. The Isles tried and failed for 5 years to find the right player to play alongside Barzal when it looks like all we needed was the right center for him. Horvat figured out Barzal in 2 days what everyone else could not in 5 years. I saw at least 5 prime scoring chances including a goal and 2 posts in just 2 games. It’s going to be a goal fest for Horvat with Barzal feeding the puck to him. It begins however with Horvat winning the face off and getting the puck to Barzal. If Horvat can score 30+ goals without Barzal imagine what he could do with that little wizard feeding him. Did Horvat ever have that good a setup man with the Nucks?

I think it remains to be seen. Horvat has traditionally had the best chemistry with left wingers not right wingers. But Horvat can certainly be the goal scorer on his line.

 

[BluesyShoes]

Yes that’s what he’s being paid for. The Isles tried and failed for 5 years to find the right player to play alongside Barzal when it looks like all we needed was the right center for him. Horvat figured out Barzal in 2 days what everyone else could not in 5 years. I saw at least 5 prime scoring chances including a goal and 2 posts in just 2 games. It’s going to be a goal fest for Horvat with Barzal feeding the puck to him. It begins however with Horvat winning the face off and getting the puck to Barzal. If Horvat can score 30+ goals without Barzal imagine what he could do with that little wizard feeding him. Did Horvat ever have that good a setup man with the Nucks?

Only on the powerplay, where he scored a lot. Until this season he was usually deployed in a defensive matchup role with Tanner Pearson glued to his side with Miller and Pettersson getting the offensive deployments. This year was a more balanced deployment with him playing with Miller, but he never played with Pettersson who is most similar to Barzal on the Canucks in terms of skating, vision, and passing.

 

[Rehabguy]

I think it remains to be seen. Horvat has traditionally had the best chemistry with left wingers not right wingers. But Horvat can certainly be the goal scorer on his line.

I don’t think it really matters with Barzal. He might be playing “right wing” but he’s a puck chaser and all over the ice. He gets around if you know what I mean and they let him play that way cause he got the wheels. He will distribute the puck from anywhere on the ice.

Only on the powerplay, where he scored a lot. Until this season he was usually deployed in a defensive matchup role with Tanner Pearson glued to his side with Miller and Pettersson getting the offensive deployments. This year was a more balanced deployment with him playing with Miller, but he never played with Pettersson who is most similar to Barzal on the Canucks in terms of skating, vision, and passing.

I think with the isles his primary role will be to finish Barzals playmaking. In the first 2 games of Barzal had the puck he headed right for the net.

 

[Hit the post]

Eh, it's like moving from the Titanic to the Britannic.

or Jim Benning to JR (the *OLD* JR).

Bo is a fine player and person. It was weird to see people think he'd want to sign in a better situation. All that's come out from his side is all about $$$. Good for him, but I don't want that on my team. That's been the whole culture of the team lately. Nobody wants to play their best until that contract year.

You don't think he could've gotten more in free agency? (there are GM's that are as bad (if not worse) than Jim Benning still employed)

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

You don't think he could've gotten more in free agency? (there are GM's that are as bad (if not worse) than Jim Benning still employed)

If so, the difference is negligible. I agree, Lou saved another team from making a disastrous deal. The highest I would have gone for Horvat is $7M AAV.

 

[Caboose]

Frustrated with some of the takes ive been reading about Bo recently...

People have such a short term memory with Bo. He presided over the most listless, emotionless and heartless era the Canucks have seen for over 30 years.

Outside of a few great solo efforts in the bubble the guy has been no show Bo every time there was a meaningful, prideful moment/game.

He is a good person and good in front of the camera but do not confound that with on ice performance.

On ice he would never be the person to do what needs to be done to win a game if he doesnt score a goal, he'll never be the guy to lay his body on the line to block shots any way possible. He won't be the guy bringing the energy on the forecheck to separate the puck and inspire his team and he will always be captain flyby when the going gets tough and the other team takes liberties with his teammates. He won't take the punishment to make the play.

He is riding the hottest of hot streaks and he milked every possible dollar out of it. 8.5 for 8?? He definitely got paid for it, if not for his hot streak, his one dimensional soft goal scoring play with face off ability wasn't worth more than 6.5. And if he wanted to be a Canuck like he said he would have accepted their pre season offer like Nugent Hopkins did before this hotstreak ever happened.

Stop idolizing this guy like he was some underappreciated legendary Canuck. He wanted the bag and he got it, by the way, the guy people are hating on? JT? People were talking about him getting closer to 10 mil on his extension based on his career year, when the deal happened it was lauded as a good discount for him to stay with Vancouver at 8 mil. He didn't rake the Canucks over the coals for his career year or hot streak the way Mr. Canuck for life Bo did.

At the same price I take JT every damn time if my goal is to win a cup. If I want the nicest guys that are cool to cheer for I'll take Bo. JT is a way better player than Bo and at their current contracts its not even close.

Also stop with this take that Management couldn't afford Bo or they chose to sign JT instead of sign Bo. Bo wanted more money than he was worth so he was traded, in addition to the desperate culture change required to get away from what Bo led.

 

[F A N]

I don’t think it really matters with Barzal. He might be playing “right wing” but he’s a puck chaser and all over the ice. He gets around if you know what I mean and they let him play that way cause he got the wheels. He will distribute the puck from anywhere on the ice.

I was talking about Horvat. Horvat scores a lot of tip in goals but in terms of his shot he’s much better when he’s fed the puck from the left side compared to the right.

Point is that Horvat may not benefit that much from playing with an elite playmaker at RW and may not be the complimentary C to Barzel as a consequence.

 

[Canucks LB]

Been watching Raty closely recently, He literally has everything except Skating.

Should have a ton of points already, Got robbed many times.

And i don’t mean skating speed per say, His Stride is f***ed lol

Kid needs a year or 2 with a proper skating coach to fix it, It’s so choppy.

 

[RobertKron]

I was talking about Horvat. Horvat scores a lot of tip in goals but in terms of his shot he’s much better when he’s fed the puck from the left side compared to the right.

Point is that Horvat may not benefit that much from playing with an elite playmaker at RW and may not be the complimentary C to Barzel as a consequence.

Most of the time it's just F1 F2 F3 in the offensive zone anyway, though.