Confirmed with Link: [VAN/NYI] Canucks acquire F Anthony Beauvillier, F Aatu Raty, Conditional 1st in ‘23 or ‘24 for F Bo Horvat (25% Retention) - Part II

[Mr. Canucklehead]

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[SeawaterOnIce]

This new updated title sucks and makes the trade look worse. I prefer blissful ignorance.

Ugh, really should have gotten another pick for retaining.

 

[iFan]

that's a bit concerning that they didn't shop the Islanders offer, but that matches up how they handled Miller at last TDL, sit back and wait for offers to come in and when they didn't come in pull him from the market. It does seem they don't like being aggressive and are more passive.

 

[drax0s]

Looks like details from other suitors is starting to leak.

 

[Vector]

"Why would the Canucks take that offer! Our offer was much better!"

 

[PuckMunchkin]

This new updated title sucks and makes the trade look worse. I prefer blissful ignorance.

Ugh, really should have gotten another pick for retaining.

I agree.

Change the title!

 

[ChilliBilly]

that's a bit concerning that they didn't shop the Islanders offer, but that matches up how they handled Miller at last TDL, sit back and wait for offers to come in and when they didn't come in pull him from the market. It does seem they don't like being aggressive and are more passive.

sorry, was there information posted to support this? How would we know if they "shopped" the trade. Which probably wouldn't have been detailed, just tell interested teams we have a deal and will be pulling the trigger later today unless someone comes up with a better offer.

 

[m9]

It's not like teams were caught off guard that Horvat was available. Until we hear more details about potential offers, I don't really care.

Like what if it's Boston that leaked that? They don't have a prospect or a draft pick as valuable as the ones they got from the Islanders, so there's nowhere to go with that conversation.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Looks like details from other suitors is starting to leak.

Swedish Benning.

 

[Canucker]

The part that I still get hung up on is that they treated this like a rental from the beginning and got a rental price in the end...I'm not sure why it had to be that way? JR/PA obviously negotiated with Bo's agent and at some point it became pretty clear that the gap was going to be insurmountable...at that point you begin looking at trading him...but Bo clearly has all the leverage, he can walk to UFA status. At this point wouldn't the most logical thing be to go to Bo's group and say "give us a handful of teams you'd consider signing with and we can try to make a deal to send you to one of them"? Rather than just strictly treating him as a rental you can try and use the teams he's actually interested in to compete against each other to trade and re-sign him. Without knowing all the details behind the scenes this may not have been possible, but if they didn't at least try to get out from rental pricing it seems like value lost.

 

[iFan]

sorry, was there information posted to support this? How would we know if they "shopped" the trade. Which probably wouldn't have been detailed, just tell interested teams we have a deal and will be pulling the trigger later today unless someone comes up with a better offer.

Kevin Weekes tweeter said a team that was highly interested and involved in Horvat said the Canucks didn't shop the Islanders offer.

 

[Bgav]

I still like the trade.

 

[iFan]

It's not like teams were caught off guard that Horvat was available. Until we hear more details about potential offers, I don't really care.

Like what if it's Boston that leaked that? They don't have a prospect or a draft pick as valuable as the ones they got from the Islanders, so there's nowhere to go with that conversation.

yea but you use it as leverage. PA said market dictates the value and that's true but strong negotiators understand how to maximize value in the market. PA doesn't seem to have strong enough nerves to do this, if he didn't shop the offer its because he was scared the Islanders would back out and he would lose their offer. You have to shop that offer and you may be able to get the Islander to remove the condition on their 1st or get it to being top 8 protected.

 

[JT Milker]

Will be interesting to see what we think of this trade if the pick turns into a top 10 pick in 2024.

 

[ChilliBilly]

Kevin Weekes tweeter said a team that was highly interested and involved in Horvat said the Canucks didn't shop the Islanders offer.

Fair enough. However, part of the deal might have been that the details remain confidential. The. Isles would have been pissed had the deal fallen through, and it became known the 2 players who were in the deal. And Kevin Weekes saying they "didn't shop the offer" doesn't really tell us what they did do.

 

[iFan]

Will be interesting to see what we think of this trade if the pick turns into a top 10 pick in 2024.

or if it ends up being a 27 pick in this draft. the value of this trades is MUCH different if its the 13 pick or a mid to late 20's pick, it goes from being its fair to that's a bit weak.

 

[Intangibos]

that's a bit concerning that they didn't shop the Islanders offer, but that matches up how they handled Miller at last TDL, sit back and wait for offers to come in and when they didn't come in pull him from the market. It does seem they don't like being aggressive and are more passive.

I don't mind this actually as a strategy as long as we make clear that players are available.

If you are interested in a player that everyone knows we're open to moving, then make an offer and don't expect us to come around looking to see if you'll match it and add some token piece. Pony up if you want to play. If teams like the Bruins want to go around saying "We would have paid more!", then they should have offered more in the several months it was clear this trade was coming.

I would only have a problem with this if it was a trade from out of nowhere involving a player nobody knew we were looking to sell. If the team makes clear that this is how they handle moving players out, I would expect teams might be a bit more willing to make legitimate offers rather than risk missing out altogether.

I like this as a strategy a lot, actually. If I was a team that was beginning the process of selling off, I would do something like this to set the standard.

 

[iFan]

Fair enough. However, part of the deal might have been that the details remain confidential. The. Isles would have been pissed had the deal fallen through, and it became known the 2 players who were in the deal. And Kevin Weekes saying they "didn't shop the offer" doesn't really tell us what they did do.

shopping the offer doesn't mean you say the Islanders are offering this ..... One because you set the offer up and the other team may match it when they may of been willing to go above that offer. All they had to do was call the other teams and say we got the offer we're looking for and Horvat is going to be moved today, are you sure that's the best you're willing to do?

 

[StreetHawk]

Swedish Benning.

Helps to save face among their own fan base. Don’t know if that is going to be their offer or what the Canucks asked from them for Bo. Not sure it helps your own player or prospects to let that stuff leak out.

 

[m9]

yea but you use it as leverage. PA said market dictates the value and that's true but strong negotiators understand how to maximize value in the market. PA doesn't seem to have strong enough nerves to do this, if he didn't shop the offer its because he was scared the Islanders would back out and he would lose their offer. You have to shop that offer and you may be able to get the Islander to remove the condition on their 1st or get it to being top 8 protected.

I'm not going to pretend that we know what went on behind-the-scenes, but I feel pretty comfortable that the Bo rumours have been out there long enough that there was some leverage being played between different teams to get them to this point. Eventually you have to make a deal and the other teams are going to be upset they didn't get the job done.

We don't even know how the discussion with the protections started. What if they started off as the same as the JT Miller ones (protected if they miss the playoffs) and they worked up to a top12 protection because of leverage from other deals. Nobody knows. Sure seems like we got a compromise.

I also think it's extremely important to have a target in negotiations and when you get that target met you make the deal. You do your due diligence before - sure - but at some point you make the deal. This is especially true if the Isles met their ask, you don't go back and ask for more because that's usually when someone tells you to quit needling and f*** off.

 

[andora]

shopping the offer doesn't mean you say the Islanders are offering this ..... One because you set the offer up and the other team may match it when they may of been willing to go above that offer. All they had to do was call the other teams and say we got the offer we're looking for and Horvat is going to be moved today, are you sure that's the best you're willing to do?

You would need to say more than that i would think.. atpeast outline what the pieces are

 

[ChilliBilly]

shopping the offer doesn't mean you say the Islanders are offering this ..... One because you set the offer up and the other team may match it when they may of been willing to go above that offer. All they had to do was call the other teams and say we got the offer we're looking for and Horvat is going to be moved today, are you sure that's the best you're willing to do?

Thats what I said in an earlier post, and how do we know they didn't do this?

My earlier post:

sorry, was there information posted to support this? How would we know if they "shopped" the trade. Which probably wouldn't have been detailed, just tell interested teams we have a deal and will be pulling the trigger later today unless someone comes up with a better offer.

 

[iFan]

You would need to say more than that i would think.. atpeast outline what the pieces are

no you wouldn't, why would you tell the other side what the offer is... you just need to say we got what we're looking for and he's being moved today, are you sure that's your best offer? If your goal is to get the most out of the deal you don't want the other side knowing what it is that you're accepting because another team may be willing to go far above that and if you tell them what you're about to accept they know where to come in at.

 

[StreetHawk]

Kevin Weekes tweeter said a team that was highly interested and involved in Horvat said the Canucks didn't shop the Islanders offer.

Means that team either needed to up what they felt was a good offer from them or that their own offer didn’t convince the Canucks to accept it.

GMs are free to do business how they wish. Most GMs will tell you that there are people there enjoy dealing with because they get to the point without over posturing. If you are the type to shop offers that’s fine. Other GMs will figure it out and will decide whether to do business with you in the future.

We are at game 50 or so for most teams. So getting down to the final 10-12 games before the tdl. So time to get your best offer out there.

 

[mriswith]

Those complaints about not shopping the Horvat deal are exactly and precisely what I was talking about last year when I said our guys weren't shopped and the Miller deal was just an opening offer.

I'm not even saying this to criticize this deal, just it needs to be said that the NYR offer was the floor. We almost certainly could have increased that offer by a bit, even if only bumping the 1st to 2023.