Price is Wright
Registered User
I'd have just rather seeing Tinordi staying up and working out his kinks but I guess that's not an option.
That's what I'd like to see as well.I'd have just rather seeing Tinordi staying up and working out his kinks but I guess that's not an option.
I was asked to speculate as to who I'd target and said so. I gave my reasoning why... Nobody said that he was going to get dealt dude. Cobourn was rumoured to be available and as I said, you never really know if a player is avaiable until they are dealt.
If you're going to cut into a conversation and make posts like this, read the posts first.
You asked me what kind of blueliner I would've gone after and who was available. I told you specifically - I don't know who was available - nobody does. You can't know unless you're a GM. What I can tell you is that trades get made all the time and when they happen the public finds out that a player (Eriksson for example) was available at the right price.
Any player is available at the right price btw. To answer your question as best I could I told you - Cobourn is a guy I would've targeted and I gave you the reasons why. And as I said... if he wasn't available (very real possibility) or if our scouts kiboshed him for whatever reason, then move on to another similar style player and see if you can get them.
But sorry, I don't buy for a second that we did this. We went after Briere hard and got him. Why? No idea. We already had a small soft center in DD so for the life of me I have no idea why we needed another one.
I'd have just rather seeing Tinordi staying up and working out his kinks but I guess that's not an option.
It might have cost us an asset but the cap space was there. We wasted that cap space anyway.That's fine. I understand your point, it's just that we're evaluating the importance of Murray on the team and why he was signed and so on. I'm also simply stating that, sure, they could've addressed physicality on defense with the trade option (and I agree Coburn would've been a great option) but it would've been much more costly to do so in both cap space/money and assets. In a cap system, cost is a huge evaluation criteria/factor.
I appreciate the respectful dialogue btw.
It might have cost us an asset but the cap space was there. We wasted that cap space anyway.
Let me ask you, if we could've gotten Cobourn cheap - say a 2nd rounder and we don't give them salary back - don't you think we'd have been in better shape? No Murray, no Briere... To me, that's the kind of move we should've been looking for.
Your statement that Holmgren is no fool is highly debatable btw. He's made some stupid moves - and he makes lots of trades. I don't know what Cobourn would've cost but I think he was available.
And I hate what we did this offseason. Just didn't make sense.
You think? Since you love stats so much, see how much PK time he gets on average.
Anyhow, you have your opinion and i have mine. Seeing as i have (had) a D core with Subban, Markov, Gorges, Emelin, Diaz/Beaulieu, I'd rather complement them with a guy like Murray than a guy like Gilbert. but that's just me....and MB. I must be a dumb as he is.
"We had a player that was supposed to be a great, shut-down defenseman. He was supposedly the be-all, end-all of defensemen. But when you did a 10-game analysis of him, you found out he was defending all the time because he can’t move the puck.
"Then we had another guy, who supposedly couldn’t defend a lick. Well, he was defending only 20 percent of the time because he’s making good plays out of our end. He may not be the strongest defender, but he’s only doing it 20 percent of the time. So the equation works out better the other way. I ended up trading the other defenseman."
I like stats and so does Dave Tippett. And he's a smart guy:
Keep in mind though...If we could've got him for a 2nd? Sure! Where do I sign? I just don't think he would've been available for a 2nd, if he was, the Oilers would've jumped on that before us. His cap hit is very good at 4.5, no way they let him go for a 2nd...but that's just my opinion.
Keep in mind though...
1. Cobourn was coming off a terrible season
2. Philly's blueline is the most expensive in the league and they were tight on the cap
3. We wouldn't be sending any salary back their way
It's basically a cap relief deal with a pick thrown in. If they wanted more, maybe we include an expendable prospect or something. I think we could've gotten something done if we tried. That's the power of having cap space.
Good point, but personally, I'm just as happy with him working on his play in the AHL. Nothing wrong with that. Good organizations do it this way.
Fucale or De La Rose? Absolutely not.Maybe. I just have a hard time believing it. Either way, in retrospect, would you give give either De La Rose or Fucale for Coburn?
After thinking about it. I don't know if I would give up that 2nd anymore. Tough one.
Fucale or De La Rose? Absolutely not.
We'd be taking a risk on a guy coming off a bad season. A 2nd and maybe Diaz would make sense. Or maybe a guy who we're not going to develop anyway (Leblanc comes to mind.)
No way I'd include a top prospect. It's a cap saving deal for them, that's it.
Good organizations develop talent in the minors - all about winning in the NHL (model Wings)
Terrible organizations try to develop talent in the NHL (Oilers/Panthers)
MB's biggest contribution is to set this organizational standard. NHL is no place for development, very little practice time. If Tinordi was significantly better today that one of the 6 D's he would be here. Not talking potential - just effectiveness right now.
Its all about development, whether its in the nhl, or otherwise. If i remember correctly, quebec had a lot of talent that went straight to the nhl and they seemed to do just fine. Even the current batch of avs have players who made the direct jump seem to be doing fine.
Did toews or Kane spend any time in the ahl for chicago before they helped turn that franchise around?
Im not calling Detroit's system wrong, but there are teams who have developed talent and enjoyed organizatiinal success by putting the young core right into the nhl too. I think the main difference is that detroit always had the luxury of attracting veterans in the lure of a cup run. Thats not a luxury that most teams had
IMO, if the kid is physically mature beyond his years, as well as mentally mature, and he fills a pressing need on the big club, I dont have an issue at all with at least giving him a 10 game stint, and re-valuate after that.
Wasn't last year's 2nd I'm talking about. I'm talking about after that draft. Last year's draft was the deepest since '03.Just saying both those prospects were 2nd round picks last year...Maybe Lekohnen's spot but even he looks promising.
Tough call, although I admit, last year's draft looks rather deep.
I'd have just rather seeing Tinordi staying up and working out his kinks but I guess that's not an option.
Good organizations develop talent in the minors - all about winning in the NHL (model Wings)
Terrible organizations try to develop talent in the NHL (Oilers/Panthers)
MB's biggest contribution is to set this organizational standard. NHL is no place for development, very little practice time. If Tinordi was significantly better today that one of the 6 D's he would be here. Not talking potential - just effectiveness right now.
Well, MT needs to change his system back to possession hockey because the Habs are bleeding pretty bad compared to last year:
Through 48 games in 2013-14 the Habs had 14 less GF and 12 more GA. That's a stunning -26 in just over half a season.
The thing is, his system is starting to work.
No it isn't. Price is the only reason Therrien has a job. We're consistently getting outshot and are on a run like Toronto had at the start of the season.
No it isn't. Price is the only reason Therrien has a job. We're consistently getting outshot and are on a run like Toronto had at the start of the season.
nah not in the last few games. Price has still been fantastic but the D has tightened up. we might be getting out shot but not badly out chanced. The D's doing a good job in minimizing real chances.
Good organizations develop talent in the minors - all about winning in the NHL (model Wings)