Pastor Of Muppetz
Registered User
- Oct 1, 2017
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Really..?..is this Armchair GM rule 382b....?.....7 months ago you were probably saying that teams that missed the playoffs for 4 straight years should not trade their #1 pick?
Confirmed with Link: [VAN/LA] Canucks acquire F Tyler Toffoli for Tim Schaller, Tyler Madden, 2020 2nd Round Pick
- Thread starter Mr. Canucklehead
- Start date
WTG
December 5th
Nobody could have predicted the division to be this shit.
Also, nobody could really predict how good Hughes turned out to be and that Markstrom would play at a Hart level.
For example, me, who thought the Canucks would be shit. I still think this team has major flaws. But the fact that Hughes is this much of a stud, I did not forsee. Hughes is f***ing amazing, bonafied #1 matterial
Get a good coach, retain Toffoli, healthy Boeser.
Get lucky with a defensive prospect Woo/Rathbone/Juoelvi/Rafferty then this team for the future could be a contender in the near future. Need to strike gold with some defensive prospects. This team can't fix their defensive issues in FA and cannot afford to give up assets in a trade for a defensive prospect. They need a young player than fills Edler and Tanev's role.
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Bobby Digital
Registered User
- Jun 15, 2006
- 1,435
- 794
Reading the YouTube comments under the new Benning press conference regarding this deal is absolutely depressing. It just shows how dumb the average fan in this city is. I've been following sports closley for almost 30 years and I've never see a GM as bad as Benning have as much support as he does. It's absolutely amazing.
WTG
December 5th
Honestly, I think it has somewhat to do with the pushback to Benning.
People become engrained in their views when they are forced to defend them.
Take for example people on this site. How rarely do you see people concede arguments? Rarely.
IDK just my observation over the past 5 years I've been on the board.
Cupless44
Registered User
- Jun 25, 2014
- 7,154
- 3,298
I would have said exactly that.
Miller has worked far better than anyone expected but the thinking behind the trade was questioned everywhere and rightfully so.
Benning has 2 young studs and seems to think that is all he needs. This organization still needs lots of top level talent so yes I am against trading 1st round picks for veteran players.
If the Canucks miss the playoffs...and they still could...was the Miller trade a success?
Pastor Of Muppetz
Registered User
- Oct 1, 2017
- 26,186
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How many years away is that...?...It seems like there's a large number of negatives here that think if a GM stands pat (Benning's moves to trade for Miller and TT are bold),and takes no 'risk' that we're going to be an automatic cup contender in a few years..?..You could just as easy fall through the cracks and become the Sabres,Oilers,Panthers etc
If your management team does not take a risk to improve his team..and is content to sit back and collect high draft picks...Eventually, players will no longer see the Canucks as a destination, and current Canuck players will be looking to ply their trade elsewhere....
Pastor Of Muppetz
Registered User
- Oct 1, 2017
- 26,186
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Give credit to where it's due..That was a good trade by Benning...I bet Kenny Holland would give his left nut to have made that trade, last off season.
WTG
December 5th
Trusting your scouting staff to fill in the holes of your team is a shouldn't be a risk. You draft guys like Woo/Juolevi to become impact players. You can't afford to build a team in FA.
Juolevi was a top 5 pick, this guy SHOULD be an impact player. Having key guys on ELC can afford you to build a team through trades/FA.
~20th pick and Bahl
~50th pick and Madden
Curious, which package would you rather have? I'd go with the latter.
Madden is obviously the better prospect. Statistically, if you look at draft hit rates, there's bigger difference between a ~10th pick and a ~20th pick than a ~20th pick and a ~50th pick. Late 1st rounder is very close to 2nd rounder if you look at the success rates of picks.
Of course there was that other pick too in the Hall trade but then again Coyotes got him for half the year instead of a quarter. Factor in the quality of these players, yikes the Canucks paid a huge price on this one. Drastic difference compared to what middling wingers usually go for at the deadline.
~50th pick and Madden
Curious, which package would you rather have? I'd go with the latter.
Madden is obviously the better prospect. Statistically, if you look at draft hit rates, there's bigger difference between a ~10th pick and a ~20th pick than a ~20th pick and a ~50th pick. Late 1st rounder is very close to 2nd rounder if you look at the success rates of picks.
Of course there was that other pick too in the Hall trade but then again Coyotes got him for half the year instead of a quarter. Factor in the quality of these players, yikes the Canucks paid a huge price on this one. Drastic difference compared to what middling wingers usually go for at the deadline.
Bobby Digital
Registered User
- Jun 15, 2006
- 1,435
- 794
This team has spent years in the basement because of the exact thinking behind this trade. No patience/not willing to spend any time in the basement, over valuing organizational talent and making high risk/low ceiling acquisitions to be "competitive and instill a winning culture".
Benning has put together a team that up until this year was "kill his gate year after year". 4 years of gate killing garbage. All while trying to make the playoffs every year. That is incompetence at its finest.
The biggest issue with you Benning guys is you look at every deal in a vaccum. You fail to see the totality of the resume. What could have been with just a little patience, with some planning and some smarts.
After 5 years of being a basement dwelling team Dumbo has constructed a team that has a 1 year window, in a season where making the playoffs isn't even a guarantee. The 5 years of basement dwelling has put him in a position where he has to "go for it" because his job is on the line. This was a deal made in desperation, and like 90% of Benning's trades or FA signings its going to cost this team in the long run.
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Pastor Of Muppetz
Registered User
- Oct 1, 2017
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It s not a risk...but how many years away are these players....Its not linear ..If I'm a 28 year old Bo Horvat,I'm certainly not waiting around for 19 year old Joe Blow to develop....I'd ask for a trade..Same goes for players like Markstrom,Miller..They are not going to hang around here for very long if the management does not demonstrate that its currently prepared to take bold moves to win..now.
Bold moves backfire as well..I guess it depends on whether you are prepared to gamble..win big or lose big..?
WTG
December 5th
You simply can't afford to build a team in FA.
You need ELC players.
Nonesense. This team was bad for 5 years because it had a garbage prospect pool, and a bunch of vets on a decline with challenging contracts. No matter who the GM was it would have been a bad team for several years.
Do you really think all the place holders that were brought here actually were meant to make this into a playoff contender during the past few years? You come across smarter than that - i think. Connect the dots pal, did you notice that as soon as they could replace guys like MDZ, Gagner, Pouliot etc they were shown the door?
More nonsense. You fail to see the big picture. You sadsakker anti benning bros have no sense of reality. What did you expect? a contender in 3 years with Jensen as one of the primary prospects in the system? Yeah sure, lets completely replace the top 6, add organizational depth in positions such as goal, replace 2/3 of the D and become a serious playoff team in less than 5 years. Get off of your x box.
More hot air. 1 year window? Geeze, I didnt know the core group of Hughes, Horvat, Pettersson, Boeser, Demko with young supporting players like Virtanen, Gaudette etc have a 1 year window. Hes surrounded them with some excellent depth/supporting players like Pearson and Miller. I guess they have a one year window too. Thats the dumbest thing ive read in here in a while - and that says a lot.
Really? His Job is on the line? Hes produced 3 calder finalists, with possibly two winners, he has taken the team from the basement into fighting for first in the division - fighting with teams like Calgary and Edmonton who have been at this rebuild thing a little longer.
His management team has taken the position that they want to expose the young players on the team to the intensity of playoff hockey. Unlike you he realizes the importance of pushing the young players to grow and to expect to win as part of their development trajectory. He is willing to pay a small premium to reward and grow his young players.
No matter what you say you cant deny the fact that this team is in a position to win the division - much to the chagrin of some of the basement hockey geniuses in here. you cant predict the future and you have absolutely no clue how this will unfold in the next few years.
I don't know what's dumber; thinking the Canucks were a basement dweller for 5 years under Benning, or that a team led by a 20 and 21 year old franchise centre and franchise defenseman is in their 1 year window right now.
Enough said.
Enough said.
To NYI- Brock Boeser, Troy Stecher
To Van- Noah Dobson, 3rd rd pick
Trade a retained Brandon Sutter for a pick($3mil cap hit)
Trade Tryamkin for a pick
Trade Demko for picks
Sign-
Brendan Dillon
Tyler Toffoli
Chris Tanev
Jacob Markstrom
Josh Leivo
Miller Pettersson Toffoli
Pearson Horvat Leivo
Roussel Gaudette Virtanen
MacEwen Beagle Motte
Ferland
Hughes Tanev
Dillon Myers
Edler Dobson
Fantenberg Rafferty
Markstrom
Veteran backup
Tell me, does that team look like it's over the cap? I will let you decide what the players sign for.
And I didn't even get into the possibility of Eriksson refusing to report to Utica, or adding a prospect to Baertschi get create more space. If Ferland isn't good to go, $3.5mil more to work with.
canuckking1
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2015
- 12,764
- 13,739
We're not trading Boeser for an unknown commodity like Dobson. If he's moved it's for someone who's proven themselves at the NHL level.
I have never seen a toxic fan base like some of the supposed Canucks fans. Benning made the decision on Pete and Hughes. Major wins.
Actually Linden made the decision on Pete, Benning purportedly wanted Glass. Picking Hughes was a no-brainer. Benning did make the call on Juolevi and Virtanen though, so there is that.
We're living in an age where instant gratification is valued above all. The average fan doesn't have much patience and so trading picks and prospects for a current NHLer is an easy win for the GM.
vanuck
Now with 100% less Benning!
- Dec 28, 2009
- 16,801
- 4,019
It's possible. But TB was in a cap crunch at the time so you'd think we wouldn't have needed to give up a 1st round pick just to get him. I mean, if Benning showed some magical ability to accurately project players like you suggest he did with Miller, he wouldn't have struck out on all these other pro scouting acquisitions like Eriksson, Ferland or Beagle to begin with.
Vancouver_2010
Canucks and Oilers fan
- Jun 21, 2006
- 6,191
- 1,185
Too early to tell. Tampa could easily use our draft pick to pick an even better player. It's still possible for the Canucks to win the lottery next year.
The Canucks would have gotten a very good look at Dobson in his draft year. There were some rumblings the team was high on him, before opting to draft Hughes.
You're probably right, but that's the type of trade they could look at if they want to open up cap space to bring back all of their best free agents.
Not to mention the obvious fit with Dobson and Hughes long-term, as Tanev fades into the sunset.
Toffoli really impressed me this game, solid debut. Seems like a feisty skilled winger with great hockey IQ.
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