Confirmed with Link: [VAN/FLA] R. Luongo (15% retained) + S. Anthony for J. Markstrom + S. Matthias

[Finkle is Einhorn]

I was an early Gillis supporter, but this is just insane. The last few years have just been brutal, the awful Hodgson trade, bad drafting, not getting rid of AV soon enough, horrible deadline moves, and now this.

When they got rid of Schneider, it was defendable when they were keeping Lou since he was untradeable. Clearly that wasn't the case. Now, they've got neither.

I said a few days ago that no way would they be stupid enough to get rid of Kesler. Well, they've certainly proved themselves stupid enough.

We're going to be a lousy team for a good 5+ years now. If we're lucky. Probably more like 7-10.

So Gillis should have stubbornly stuck with Luongo because of a past mistake. Sounds like throwing good money after bad to me. Again, rip the guy to pieces for trading Schneider. Fair game. Today's deal does absolutely nothing to affect last year's trade.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

Horvat is a fair piece.

In the overall picure, I rather have: Lack + Horvat than Schneider.

Naw, better to have Schnieds and Lack. If they were really hard for Bo, Edler prob gets you the pick to do it, and more.

 

[Dugray]

So far so good for Mike Gillis, but don't stop there.

One of Kesler or Edler needs to be traded to restock the top 6 youth. If either trade goes down, then it should be a successful trade deadline

And you actually trust him to win a trade? At this point the only thing I trust him to do is be sweaty and red-faced.

 

[Jyrki21]

I can understand why one would be angry over the summer of 2012, and especially over the Schneider trade in 2013. I don't understand why today's trade would be the one to make anyone say "Fire Gillis!" The previous dealings were problematic. Today's was a solution (albeit to a self-made problem, but why would now be the moment you turn against him?)

We all wish they could have done this in 2012, but obviously they couldn't, ironically because Markström was the reason that Florida wasn't interested in another goaltender. The Toronto deal that so many here are dreaming of was never even a possibility, from what we know. And anyway, again, those would be reasons to be angry in 2012 or 2013.

But unless the understanding was Luongo was now "happy" or "gruntled" or whatever after the Schneider trade, in spite of the various pieces of evidence to the contrary, then why would today's trade anger anyone? Was Gillis turning down better deals? (Hint: no). Was Luongo going to play out his contract as a Canuck and keep a high level of play? (Highly doubtful, although the Heritage Classic screwjob by Tortorella is inexplicable, in case there was any last chance of it).

Like I say, be angry over not dumping Luongo for scraps in the previous two summers – those are sunk costs – not for today's deal. Nothing today made Gillis any worse than before. I'm not sure why there'd be ridicule today that wasn't already earned.

And separately, perhaps I'm missing the entire point of cap recapture – why would the Canucks be penalized more heavily for Luongo actually playing out the deal in good faith? Shouldn't the hit be worse the earlier he retires?!

 

[Gxgear]

If Lack doesn't pan out, it's back to becoming the league's goalie graveyard we go.

Always supported Luongo, but can't help but breathe a sigh of relief to the end of all the drama. I'm not going to pretend I know who Markstrom is, but he's not worth a franchise goalie + the salary retention.

 

[Finkle is Einhorn]

And separately, perhaps I'm missing the entire point of cap recapture – why would the Canucks be penalized more heavily for Luongo actually playing out the deal in good faith? Shouldn't the hit be worse the earlier he retires?!

You get punished for every year you benefited from a player's cap hit being lower than his salary by that amount. More years Luongo plays, more years of benefit.

 

[Sharpshooter]

I was an early Gillis supporter, but this is just insane. The last few years have just been brutal, the awful Hodgson trade, bad drafting, not getting rid of AV soon enough, horrible deadline moves, and now this.

When they got rid of Schneider, it was defendable when they were keeping Lou since he was untradeable. Clearly that wasn't the case. Now, they've got neither.

I said a few days ago that no way would they be stupid enough to get rid of Kesler. Well, they've certainly proved themselves stupid enough.

We're going to be a lousy team for a good 5+ years now. If we're lucky. Probably more like 7-10.

Hodgson has been lights out for Buf??

What was the bad drafting in the last few years? Horvat was a solid pick.

Don't you think you're conflating different issues to come to a single conclusion? Probably not since you're thinking with your heart and not your cognitive skills.

 

[dave babych returns]

The point of cap recapture is to be ****** and punitive to teams that didn't toe Gary's imaginary line.

Dumb, arbitrary punishments that don't really adhere to the spirit of the rule are a secondary concern.

 

[Sharpshooter]

If Lack doesn't pan out, it's back to becoming the league's goalie graveyard we go.

For a young goalie thrown into the position he has been, has he been terrible, bad or even someone that doesn't have the skills to be a good goalie??

 

[Bgav]

This is amazin

@HunterZThompson: "This is larceny for the @VanCanucks" - Pierre McGuire: http://t.co/NSfHZXEebo #Canucks #Panthers #Habs #NHL #TSN690Podcast

 

[dave babych returns]

Also, to those saying you can complain about past moves but not about this one: to the fire Gillis crowd every single transaction is both a reason to complain and a reason to dredge up complaints about past moves.

Luongo gets traded, complain because you didn't like the Schneider trade. Lack starts the Heritage Classic, complain because you didn't like the coaching hire. Weise gets traded, complain because it's the only trade so far. Schneider gets traded, complain about the Luongo contract. And on and on and on.

 

[Finkle is Einhorn]

The point of cap recapture is to be ****** and punitive to teams that didn't toe Gary's imaginary line.

Dumb, arbitrary punishments that don't really adhere to the spirit of the rule are a secondary concern.

It's a fine rule going forward, completely ridiculous as a retroactive punishment.

 

[deckercky]

If Lack doesn't pan out, it's back to becoming the league's goalie graveyard we go.

What was a strange situation of stocking the goaltending prospects while the team had Luongo playing at an elite level, and Schneider on the cusp of breaking out should now pay dividends and prevent just that. Add in Markstrom, who at least has the potential to be pretty good with proper coaching, and I don't think there's any goalie graveyard risk (4-5 prospects look like they have very good potential, and the team needs at least one to turn out). It's also way easier to find a replacement goaltender than it was in the late 90's and early 2000's. The position has become so much more consistent than it once was.

 

[dave babych returns]

It's a fine rule going forward, completely ridiculous as a retroactive punishment.

Hence the "Gary's imaginary line" line.

Although regarding your earlier point about the longer Luongo plays the more cap benefit and the steeper penalty, it doesn't necessarily make sense if the Luongo deal had been structured differently.

For example Christian Ehrhoff, I believe the "cap benefit" part of his deal is over already but if he retired in two years it'd be far easier from a recapture perspective than if he retired after year nine of his deal.

 

[Finkle is Einhorn]

Hence the "Gary's imaginary line" line.

Although regarding your earlier point about the longer Luongo plays the more cap benefit and the steeper penalty, it doesn't necessarily make sense if the Luongo deal had been structured differently.

For example Christian Ehrhoff, I believe the "cap benefit" part of his deal is over already but if he retired in two years it'd be far easier from a recapture perspective than if he retired after year nine of his deal.

Yeah, really, you got me there. Just how I understood it in relation to Luongo's deal.

 

[Gxgear]

For a young goalie thrown into the position he has been, has he been terrible, bad or even someone that doesn't have the skills to be a good goalie??

I'm sensing hostility here. It's not a question of his skill, or any other goalies' for that matter, as much as Canucks' ability to manage them.

 

[dave babych returns]

Yeah, really, you got me there. Just how I understood it in relation to Luongo's deal.

Yeah it's tough to complain about with Lou but when you look at the rule in principle it's obviously more about "**** you" than it is about making sense.

My main problem with it is, if Lou played 11/12 years of his deal for the same team and the retired, why would the "cap benefit" owed be the sum of all the overages and not just the difference between salary paid out and total cap hit to that point?

 

[deckercky]

This is amazin

@HunterZThompson: "This is larceny for the @VanCanucks" - Pierre McGuire: http://t.co/NSfHZXEebo #Canucks #Panthers #Habs #NHL #TSN690Podcast

Pierre McGuire is too excited for Markstrom for what he did several years ago. There's a big chance Markstrom is a bust. May not be, but he *really* hasn't performed well at either the NHL or AHL level last few years. We'll see how stronger defensive structure and a new goalie coach work for him, but I wouldn't hang your hat on him as much as McGuire did.

 

[Upoil]

Pierre McGuire is too excited for Markstrom for what he did several years ago. There's a big chance Markstrom is a bust. May not be, but he *really* hasn't performed well at either the NHL or AHL level last few years. We'll see how stronger defensive structure and a new goalie coach work for him, but I wouldn't hang your hat on him as much as McGuire did.

Yeah he has been terrible in the AHL.

 

[Orca Smash]

Tom Gulitti ‏@TGfireandice 4m
By the way, Cory Schneider called the Roberto Luongo trade, "a year too late."

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

I'll miss Lu. Glad he got what he wanted. It's hard to imagine the situation over the last 2 years could have been handled any worse.

 

[Finkle is Einhorn]

Yeah he has been terrible in the AHL.

Well he hasn't won player of the month honours in what seems like days.

 

[Shareefruck]

Full rebuild please.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Pierre McGuire is too excited for Markstrom for what he did several years ago. There's a big chance Markstrom is a bust. May not be, but he *really* hasn't performed well at either the NHL or AHL level last few years. We'll see how stronger defensive structure and a new goalie coach work for him, but I wouldn't hang your hat on him as much as McGuire did.

He really seems high on Markstrom. lol. "Larceny"? Judging by what he said about Schneider/Horvat, grain of salt, but he really seems high on this kid.

Goaltending is just helter skelter. McGuire blamed how the organization developed Markstrom. Mentions Melanson as someone who can turn him around. Mentions Kolzig, Dafoe, Bauer and Theodore as goalies that put it together in late mid-late 20s.

 

[BlackAces]

This is amazin

@HunterZThompson: "This is larceny for the @VanCanucks" - Pierre McGuire: http://t.co/NSfHZXEebo #Canucks #Panthers #Habs #NHL #TSN690Podcast

"Schneider is going to be a starter forever. Think about that" - Pierre Maguire.

I blame Gillis and the scouting staff for not knowing Schneider was immortal.