Ah yes. Who wants data driving decisions when we can go by our feelings? Hunt is a replacement level player. I'm not saying he's a world beater. I'm saying Kuzmenko is worse than a replacement level player. Tocchet thought so too. All these bums coaching NHL teams with you sitting at home? These GMs aren't doing their jobs.
Confirmed Trade: [VAN/CGY] Elias Lindholm for Andrei Kuzmenko, Hunter Brzustewicz, Joni Jurmo, 2024 1st, cond. 2024 4th
- Thread starter MMC
- Start date
Drew Doubty
Registered User
I always thought so, but I wouldn't have been shocked if he turned it around enough to be flippable at next year's deadlines for a prospect or pick. But Kuzmenko's value is way lower now. Prior to the trade, many GMs could probably talk themselves into the idea that he was still a valuable player who just didn't work with Tocchet.
Larry Hanson
Registered User
- Aug 1, 2020
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One of these times Coronatto is going to stay up and steal Kuzmenko's spot. Seems inevitable to me when hes hardly holding off Hunt.
As for Lindholm, putting him at 3C seems wild to me. He plays to the level of his teammates. He'd be better off as a RW
As for Lindholm, putting him at 3C seems wild to me. He plays to the level of his teammates. He'd be better off as a RW
Maybe next year, he’s had a pretty hard time finding a way to be effective in the NHL so far.
HighLifeMan
#SnowyStrong
- Feb 26, 2009
- 7,297
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That line has been thoroughly outplayed since Hunt was put on it - despite the narrative being pushed here. Huberdeau and Kuzmenko have clicked.
Huberdeau with Kuzmenko
CF% - 53.90
SF% - 52.31
xGF% - 63.99
SCF% - 63.79
HDCF% - 72.73
PDO - 0.930
Huberdeau with Hunt
CF% - 46.67
SF% - 41.46
xGF% - 40.30
SCF% - 43.59
HDCF% - 31.25
PDO - 1.135
They've played like 3 games together and the whole team got destroyed analytically against Pittsburgh.
And I'm not saying Hunt is good, he's an AHL callup. I'm saying Kuzmenko is struggling to stay ahead of him on the coaches lineup. Line 2 and 3 are all but set in stone now.
Nah. Columbus won’t be making any FA splashes unless Lindholm specifically comes to market saying he’ll only sign there like John Tavares with the Leafs. They’ve got too many kinds to sort through, and a new front office will have entirely different priorities than Jarmo did the past few years (namely, scrambling to save his job). Johnny isn’t that strong of a pull, and with so many RFAs this summer, Columbus doesn’t have the cap for 8 anyway.
- Jan 9, 2009
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Buresflyingelbow
VanCity
- Feb 19, 2018
- 2,598
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We do not want Kuzmenko's 5.5MM for next year back, that was a huge benefit of this deal, regardless of how mediocre Lindholm has been. Based on historical cap dumps, Kuzmenko was trending in a direction where it would cost a 2nd + 2nd/3rd just to unload full freight.
Just had to sign back in to post for the first time in 2.5 years and say...
LMAO VANCOUVER GAVE UP WHAT!?!?!
LMAO VANCOUVER GAVE UP WHAT!?!?!
Turin
Registered User
- Feb 27, 2018
- 22,177
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This reminds be of that Russian dude who was clearly too bad of a skater to hack it being a productive top six player and clearly not good enough defensively to be a middle six fwd, but people kept tricking themselves into him maybe not being a liability on a good team.. Gusev, that's it.
Nucklehead Supreme
Registered User
- Jul 10, 2011
- 4,251
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A cap dump, a low 1st, a nothing prospect and a b prospect who would never get a chance on our blueline.
You waited two and a half years, to post that?
Like I get Lindholm is out, but we still didn't give up that much for him.
This was a bad trade in hindsight for the Canucks so defending it make you look petty. You also have no idea Brz will pan out.
Not only that, you further fail to recognize those assets given up could bring back someone useful for the Canucks.
Nucklehead Supreme
Registered User
- Jul 10, 2011
- 4,251
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I was criticizing the narrative that we gave up a lot for him, in hindsight, even knowing what we know now, we simply didn't.
I never said that Bryz would not pan out, merely that he wouldn't get a chance on our blueline.
I never failed to realize this at all, in any way. again, I merely criticized the narrative that we gave up a lot for him.
Is reading comprehension this hard?
You are downplaying how much was given up.
How do you know Bryz will never get a chance on our blueline? Do you have a crystal box with respect to his development? If he pan out, why would he not be on our blueline?
Your argument isn’t logical
Is an objective analysis this hard? I guess looking at your user name it’s too much to ask for a non-bias take.
lindholm was a huge miss for the canucks. regardless of whether brzstuwicz works out or what the 1st turns into it took them out of the running for a player who could have had a real impact for them. guentzel or toffoli or monahan
DIscounting a prospect because "you don't have room" is a hilarious statement.
I'm here for Kuzmenko outscoring Lindholm with like 4 less minutes a game though. Great stuff.
Once you give up you can't just turn it back on again. Lindholm is going to need a priest and a psychologist this summer.
I'm here for Kuzmenko outscoring Lindholm with like 4 less minutes a game though. Great stuff.
Once you give up you can't just turn it back on again. Lindholm is going to need a priest and a psychologist this summer.
AwesomeInTheory
A Christmas miracle
- Aug 21, 2015
- 4,240
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Getting cap space past this year was important for the Canucks. Getting out from under Kuzemenko's contract was a good thing. You can argue about the subsequent moves and what was brought back, but the asset that hurts the most in that trade is a 1st.
He was saying under the Canucks blueline, not Calgary's. It'd be very hard for him given how our D is constructed at the moment and other prospects that are in our system.
I didn't like giving him up, but he's exactly the kind of player you want to utilize in a trade like this. You gotta give up assets to get assets. I hope he's able to do well with the Flames.
You seem to be coming at it from the perspective that there needs to be a clear WINNER and a clear LOSER. Not all trades are going to be like that, and the Canucks still benefit from this deal even if Lindholm has turned into a lemon thus far.
Zadorov, specifically, has been really good for the Canucks, and I'd like to try and retain him, although that's probably not going to happen.
Andy Dufresne
Registered User
- Jun 17, 2009
- 2,632
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Not yet it's not. If you're guessing or betting or whatever that it will be, fine. Hindsight is when you look at a thing after it's over. Lindholm isn't out for the year. The Canucks season is not over. The whole story has not been written yet. Hindsight does not work here.
KirkAlbuquerque
#WeNeverGetAGoodCoach
- Oct 13, 2018
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An extremely late 1st, a prospect that was rumoured to not want to sign in Vancouver, a prospect they weren't going to sign, a conditional 4th, and a contract they needed to get off the books.
Could the Canucks have added a better player? Yeah, and the Flames did well here, but they won't sorely miss any of these pieces outside of a pick in the 25-28 range. The idea that the Canucks gave up a lot for Lindholm is simply false, it just looks like a lot because 3 of the pieces don't matter to the Canucks while the Flames can take flyers on bad players and hope they work out. Canucks are looking to compete this year.
The team wanted to add a C and none of the other ones on the market brought what Lindholm does, specifically elite FO ability, and a right hand shot.
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Diamonddog01
Diamond in the rough
This has been a rare swing and a miss for the Canucks FO. I think that Kuzmenko was a cap dump and this was sort of hidden / discreetly slipped into the trade. So basically it was
Canucks 1st = Kuzmenko cap dump
Bryz = Lindholm
Given how atrocious Lindholm has I wouldn't really call this a fair deal at this point. Do I wish the Canucks had moved their assets for Guenztel, in hindsight? Obviously. But the silver lining is that they cleared 5.5 off the books going into next season which I suspect was just as important as acquiring a rental that superficially ticks all the boxes.
The Flames can hopefully move Kuzmenko at next year's TDL for maybe a 2nd or 3rd, and they pick up a solid B prospect.
Canucks 1st = Kuzmenko cap dump
Bryz = Lindholm
Given how atrocious Lindholm has I wouldn't really call this a fair deal at this point. Do I wish the Canucks had moved their assets for Guenztel, in hindsight? Obviously. But the silver lining is that they cleared 5.5 off the books going into next season which I suspect was just as important as acquiring a rental that superficially ticks all the boxes.
The Flames can hopefully move Kuzmenko at next year's TDL for maybe a 2nd or 3rd, and they pick up a solid B prospect.
this trade has been pretty bad for vancouver. if kuzy was kept or moved elsewhere for a better player.
