Confirmed with Link: [VAN/CAR] Canucks acquire 2015 3rd (66TH OA), 2016 7th for G Eddie Lack | Pt 2

[BuzzBuzz]

True to an extent, but time will tell I guess.

If Eddie Lack develops into an elite goalie, as opposed to being the next Anti Niemi, I will admit fault.

He is already better than Niemi.

p.s.________And given what other GM's were willing to give up for Lack, I think it's safe to say that all/most others agree that Lack will not develop into an elite goalie in this league.

Or other GMs took advantage of our inept GM. If you want to go with this line of reasoning then no trades are ever bad.

 

[GJB]

I haven't looked at the stats but from what I understand, Markstrom has always been considered to have more upside than Lack, dating back to their days in Junior.

...And why does what they did or didn't do in junior matter now? Yes, Markstrom was once a very highly touted prospect for Florida but what does it matter?

Their AHL numbers are similar, but Lack is 2 yrs older than Markstrom but he has also proven a lot more thus far at the NHL level. Maybe Markstrom becomes every bit as good as Lack, maybe he doesn't, but this notion that Markstrom can become a legit #1 goalie in the NHL and Lack can't, is just silly.

 

[rune74]

Miller mentors the young goaltenders by giving them all the ****** starts so he can boosts his stats.

That's how mentor ship goes.

Well, if we ignore facts and cling to false info sure....once people start on that train it is very hard to get off.

 

[vanuck]

Yep, but people are still human, not just coagulated blobs of statistics and cap hits and fan fantasies.

The human part of the equation is being overemphasized here. See below:

You're right, it IS 2015..........a time period in which the Canucks were up 3-0 in Game 6 against the Calgary Flames, and ended up losing the game 7-4.

I'm actually shocked that people *don't* think that leadership and character issues need to be addressed on this team.

The loss to CGY has nothing to do with what I meant. These guys are professional athletes who give it their all and have been giving it their all since a young age. "Leadership" and "character" are nothing but buzzwords from straight out of the 80's that fans want to attribute to successful athletes when it's already a trait that they practically all have - otherwise they wouldn't have made it this far.

 

[Abaddon**]

The human part of the equation is being overemphasized here. See below:



The loss to CGY has nothing to do with what I meant. These guys are professional athletes who give it their all and have been giving it their all since a young age. "Leadership" and "character" are nothing but buzzwords from straight out of the 80's that fans want to attribute to successful athletes when it's already a trait that they practically all have - otherwise they wouldn't have made it this far.

OK I'll send a team of Brendan Gallaghers out against your team of Alex Semins any day.

 

[BuzzBuzz]

You're right, it IS 2015..........a time period in which the Canucks were up 3-0 in Game 6 against the Calgary Flames, and ended up losing the game 7-4.

I'm actually shocked that people *don't* think that leadership and character issues need to be addressed on this team.

Boston drop a series after being up 3-0 and leading in game 4? The same Boston team with little change in leadership went on to win the Stanely Cup.

You win = leadership
You lose = leadership issues

 

[BuzzBuzz]

OK I'll send a team of Brendan Gallaghers out against your team of Alex Semins any day.

Straw man

 

[Abaddon**]

Straw man

How is that a straw man?

He just said every professional athlete has the same levels of determination, leadership and emotion.

 

[vanuck]

OK I'll send a team of Brendan Gallaghers out against your team of Alex Semins any day.

What did you think of Semin in, say, 2009 or 2010 when he was scoring all those goals? Lazy, heartless floater?

 

[BuzzBuzz]

How is that a straw man?

He just said every professional athlete has the same levels of determination, leadership and emotion.

He didn't say that

 

[Horse McHindu]

Boston drop a series after being up 3-0 and leading in game 4? The same Boston team with little change in leadership went on to win the Stanely Cup.

You win = leadership
You lose = leadership issues

That's the thing - I didn't even consider Boston to be a team stacked of leadership, integrity, etc. (as much as the media tried to paint them as such during that time). They certainly had more than teams like Vancouver and San Jose, but they weren't anywhere near teams like Chicago and yester-year Detroit.

In 2012, Boston lost to Washington out of pure arrogance. They thought they could just show up and win, and they did not.

In 2013 - Boston fooled around with a significantly inferior Toronto team and nearly lost. Notice how Boston was a completely different team against the likes of NYR and Pittsburgh that year? There was a reason for this. Even in 2011, their level of play against Montreal was wildly different than when they played Philadelphia, Tampa, and of course, us.

2014 - Montreal's speed and tenaciousness gave the superior Bruins fits, and they were punted. Montreal got deep inside their heads which prompted Boston to try and beat them up as opposed to beating them on the scoreboard.

In my opinion, the Bruins are a team that should have or could have had 2-3 cups themselves with that core, but often lost for idiotic reasons. I do think leadership was an issue with the Bruins as well.

 

[Abaddon**]

He didn't say that

[Leadership and character are traits] that they practically all have - otherwise they wouldn't have made it this far.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

In my opinion, the Bruins are a team that should have or could have had 2-3 cups themselves with that core, but often lost for idiotic reasons. I do think leadership was an issue with the Bruins as well.

And you can argue that leadership is the reason why they pretty much got nothing for the Kessel trade. They could have made like bandits, but every meaningful piece minus Loui Eriksson got voted off the island.

 

[rune74]

What does leadership have to do with the Eddie lack trade thread?

Speaking of which...I will be very interested in seeing how Eddie does next year and if he sucks what people will say/ blame.

 

[a Fool]

And you can argue that leadership is the reason why they pretty much got nothing for the Kessel trade. They could have made like bandits, but every meaningful piece minus Loui Eriksson got voted off the island.

Building a "Locker Room" instead of building an ice hockey team. Same mentality going on with Benning.

 

[Horse McHindu]

I much rather players like the Sedin show him that given that they are actually good players

Guys like Gaunce and Virtanen play a more similar style to guys like Dorsett, Prust, etc, and so I think it's a more appropriate fit. Aside from that though, Prust is a great guy for the bottom 6 (even if he's pricey), and he won't allow for our guys to get pushed around like we did against Calgary.

Who was Chicago's tough guy?

Brian Bickell, and maybe 1-2 other guys that I can't think of right now, but I can't honestly think of one time where the Chicago Blackhawks were bullied or physically dominated in the manner that the Canucks have.

The Hawks team isn't the biggest in the world, but it's also a team that does not take any $hit. Again - I think it ultimately comes down to leadership and character. The 2008 Red Wings that won the cup were the same way. They didn't have a team with a number of 'tough guys', but you couldn't push that team around either. The Wings were a skilled team that succeeded.

Yes. He stood up for numerous Canucks players over his tenure here.

I don't disagree with this, but obviously, he was doing something that rubbed Vigneault, Tortorella, and Desjardins the wrong way. His lack of defensive commitment when playing on the bottom 6, along with his lack of off-ice commitment, were driving coaches and teammates nuts. Things like this is not a good sign of character and leadership. Hence - he was moved.

Even a guy like Linden Vey - who is not the greatest player in the world, is being given chances by coaching and management because the guy has a terrific work ethic and attitude. Granted - Vey's opportunities won't last forever (and I think this year will be his last chance to prove himself), but you can see why he's being afforded every opportunity to succeed.

His contract isn't bad. What is bad is that we gave up a younger better bigger hockey player and a 5th rounder to get him.

I'm sure Benning tested the market thoroughly for Kassian. Like Lack, the market simply wasn't there for Kassian. What would YOU have paid for a injury prone defensively liable 24 year old kid that had issues with three different coaches? Would you have given up a 2nd rounder for a kid that simply refuses to compete if he's not playing in a Top 6 role?

 

[Horse McHindu]

What does leadership have to do with the Eddie lack trade thread?

I think in terms of mentorship, it is far better for someone like Markstrom to be playing behind someone like Miller as opposed to Lack. Why? Because - Miller was an elite goalie in this league at one point in his career, and knows what it takes to play at that level. Markstrom is a world class talent, and who better than a former elite goalie to help try and corral the talents of Markstrom?

I like Eddie Lack. I think he's a great guy with a great personality, but I don't think he'll ever be elite. Paying Eddie Lack $4 million dollars on a 5-6 year term would have been a huge mistake in my opinion.

Goaltending is NOT the position where you try and save a few bucks so that you can have a 'decent'/mediocre goalie with the expectation that you will make up for it with forwards and defense. For most teams, you NEED to have an elite goalie if you are to be a serious cup contender one day, and you need to eventually pay a premium for said goaltending.

I think it's absolutely a good idea to have Miller here for two more years, and then guage where both Markstrom and Demko are at in their development. One of Markstrom and Demko will be our goalie of the future, and we should do everything in our power to foster a conducive environment for said goalies.

 

[rune74]

I think in terms of mentorship, it is far better for someone like Markstrom to be playing behind someone like Miller as opposed to Lack. Why? Because - Miller was an elite goalie in this league at one point in his career, and knows what it takes to play at that level. Markstrom is a world class talent, and who better than a former elite goalie to help try and corral the talents of Markstrom?

I like Eddie Lack. I think he's a great guy with a great personality, but I don't think he'll ever be elite. Paying Eddie Lack $4 million dollars on a 5-6 year term would have been a huge mistake in my opinion.

Goaltending is NOT the position where you try and save a few bucks so that you can have a 'decent'/mediocre goalie with the expectation that you will make up for it with forwards and defense. For most teams, you NEED to have an elite goalie if you are to be a serious cup contender one day, and you need to eventually pay a premium for said goaltending.

I think it's absolutely a good idea to have Miller here for two more years, and then guage where both Markstrom and Demko are at in their development. One of Markstrom and Demko will be our goalie of the future, and we should do everything in our power to foster a conducive environment for said goalies.

I agree with all of this and it has been my stance all along.

 

[Disappointed EP40]

Do you not believe that things like mentorship, leadership, etc. are important factors?



I much rather players like the Sedin show him that given that they are actually good players



Who was Chicago's tough guy?




Yes. He stood up for numerous Canucks players over his tenure here.



His contract isn't bad. What is bad is that we gave up a younger better bigger hockey player and a 5th rounder to get him.

This is all the truth.

 

[GJB]

Markstrom is a world class talent, and who better than a former elite goalie to help try and corral the talents of Markstrom?

I like Eddie Lack. I think he's a great guy with a great personality, but I don't think he'll ever be elite. Paying Eddie Lack $4 million dollars on a 5-6 year term would have been a huge mistake in my opinion.

Since when is Markstrom a world class talent? You seem to have this idea that Markstrom has all the potential in the world and Lack has hit his ceiling, but based on what? Scouting reports from several years ago?

 

[Huggy]

People on here have said the sedins are strong leadership
No

Theyre skilled but if they were leaders.

Hodgson, kassian, schroeder, bernier, obrien, wellwood, and any other young guy

Who has been in this organization wouldnt be a strike out.

Need real leaders on this team who are ready to attack and young guys showing no respect


Sedins are wusses

 

[rune74]

Since when is Markstrom a world class talent? You seem to have this idea that Markstrom has all the potential in the world and Lack has hit his ceiling, but based on what? Scouting reports from several years ago?

Markstrom sure showed a lot of talent this year, don't discount his performance over the loss of lack.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Since when is Markstrom a world class talent? You seem to have this idea that Markstrom has all the potential in the world and Lack has hit his ceiling, but based on what? Scouting reports from several years ago?

I am admittedly going by a number of scouting reports that I have read, as opposed to personal observation, but yes - the general consensus is that Markstrom is the goalie with a significantly higher ceiling than Lack. If I understand correctly, Markstrom and Lack were teammates in juniors and Markstrom was always considered more highly regarded.

In Florida - the coaching that Markstrom received was pitiful and he never lived up to expectations. In Utica however, Markstrom seems to have taken that next step, and so this coming season should be a good opportunity for him.

 

[GJB]

Markstrom sure showed a lot of talent this year, don't discount his performance over the loss of lack.

I'm not discounting his progression, but Lack had similar numbers in the AHL without anyone referring to him as a "world class talent". So far there is nothing to say Markstrom becomes a better goalie than Lack other than speculation.

 

[rune74]

I'm not discounting his progression, but Lack had similar numbers in the AHL without anyone referring to him as a "world class talent". So far there is nothing to say Markstrom becomes a better goalie than Lack other than speculation.

The difference for me is the physics deference of each...markstrom is huge, which you can't really discount in my opinion. This, if he can put it all together is the difference.