Confirmed Signing with Link: [VAN] Antoine Roussel signs with the Canucks (4 years, $3M AAV)

[bsu]

Why...

 

[dman34]

This Canucks fan is disappointed about the term. They shouldve been given 2 years MAX.
This just reeks of "Untradeable assets" down the line.

Canucks offer 2-year deals, Beagle and Roussel go elsewhere.

You can’t dress a lineup full of kids, you need a supporting cast to bring your young players along.

Untradeable assets? I disagree. Currently these deals are only 3-4% of the cap. By the time the Canucks are ready to compete, they will likely suck up less. Very easy to dump off these contracts in year 3 or 4, especially if jimmy front loads them.

I dunno, I guess a 3-year term could’ve been better in a perfect world, but you pay a surcharge to get players over to a rebuilding team.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

its not as bad as the beagle signing I suppose... that's a good thing right?

 

[Vorkosh]

Team bid up Beagle and Roussel. Apparently Beagle deal was 3x2.5 on friday. and in two days it became 4x3

It's not like Benning just straight up offered 4 years right off the bat. If you have a couple of targets in mind and you're high on them for your team and you get outbid, you bid again. It's basic economics.

In 2019-2020 The Canucks only have like 9 players signed for that season without the ELC's. (Eriksson/Horvat/Sutter/Gagner/Beagle/Roussel/Tanev/Gudbranson/Marky) for like 37 million.

Let's say cap rises to 85 million in two years, that still leaves 48 million in cap space for that year (let's call it 43 after you factor in all the ELC's)

The only players currently on ELC that won't be during that time are Goldobin/Demko/Boeser

The year before let's say Virtanen gets a 2 year 2m bridge deal and Sven gets a 3 year 3m bridge deal aav (i'm overpaying)

so 38 million left

Goldobin gets what? a 2 year 2.5 Demko 4x3 Boeser 6x7

26 million left roughly

2019 - 2020 team

Baertschi/Horvat/Boeser
Dahlen/Petersson/Goldobin
Eriksson/Sutter/Gagner
Roussel/Beagle/Virtanen

Kole Lind and Jonah are somewhere in that mix as well if Nucks buyout Eriksson or Sutter or trade them

Hughes/Tanev
Woo/Juolevi
Gudbranson/?

Demko/Marky

It's not horrible, it's not GREAT but it's not horrible. That 4th line is just bringing thuggery back for sure and having 8 million for a 4th line is a lot but the kids are paid and still have 26m to find a 3rd pairing D

 

[Takeya]

canucks make the worst contracts
too long and too much money
never do we get a player for a cheap deal or reasonable length
its either 1 year cheap or 4+ years and overpayment

 

[Vorkosh]

canucks make the worst contracts
too long and too much money
never do we get a player for a cheap deal or reasonable length
its either 1 year cheap or 4+ years and overpayment

That is such a one dimensional way of thinking. Canucks aren't negotiating from a position of strength. They're rebuidling which means they're gonna lose... a lot. So you're not getting anyone of substance unless you're getting players with bad work ethic who only chase money (Eriksson/Lucic) Anyone serviceable will have options. Why would they pick Vancouver over a different city? One of the highest cost of living cities to live in. A market that is relentless if you mess up. So yeah.. it's gonna take extra to convince an NHL body to come to Vancouver. When the Canucks start winning and are close again then you'll find some deals. Hamhuis taking less in 2010.. Garrison taking less to come to Vancouver before Torts messed him up. Etc

 

[THE Green Man]

That is such a one dimensional way of thinking. Canucks aren't negotiating from a position of strength. They're rebuidling which means they're gonna lose... a lot. So you're not getting anyone of substance unless you're getting players with bad work ethic who only chase money (Eriksson/Lucic) Anyone serviceable will have options. Why would they pick Vancouver over a different city? One of the highest cost of living cities to live in. A market that is relentless if you mess up. So yeah.. it's gonna take extra to convince an NHL body to come to Vancouver. When the Canucks start winning and are close again then you'll find some deals. Hamhuis taking less in 2010.. Garrison taking less to come to Vancouver before Torts messed him up. Etc

Then overpay per season. DONT GIVE 4 YEARS TO 4th LINERS! Rousell not worth more term than Bozak or Stastny. 33 year old Beagle- ditto. And for the record Torts didn't break Garrison, he simply could not skate at the NHL level and got exposed. What does he care though, one good season in Florida got him paid.

 

[Jacob]

What’s the point of loading up the 4th line when the rest of the team is so bad?

 

[MMC]

 

[Vorkosh]

Then overpay per season. DONT GIVE 4 YEARS TO 4th LINERS! Rousell not worth more term than Bozak or Stastny. 33 year old Beagle- ditto. And for the record Torts didn't break Garrison, he simply could not skate at the NHL level and got exposed. What does he care though, one good season in Florida got him paid.

You're acting like 4 years is 6 and 3 million is 6 million.

Who cares? The Nucks have cap space. And will still be well below cap after these signings. Are you Aqualini's financial manager? If no, then why do you care so much? It's not like the Canucks were ever in the market for a big name free agent. So if they spend 50 million and lose or 70 million and lose who cares. They weren't going to spend the cap on anything else.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Team bid up Beagle and Roussel. Apparently Beagle deal was 3x2.5 on friday. and in two days it became 4x3

It's not like Benning just straight up offered 4 years right off the bat. If you have a couple of targets in mind and you're high on them for your team and you get outbid, you bid again. It's basic economics.

In 2019-2020 The Canucks only have like 9 players signed for that season without the ELC's. (Eriksson/Horvat/Sutter/Gagner/Beagle/Roussel/Tanev/Gudbranson/Marky) for like 37 million.

Let's say cap rises to 85 million in two years, that still leaves 48 million in cap space for that year (let's call it 43 after you factor in all the ELC's)

The only players currently on ELC that won't be during that time are Goldobin/Demko/Boeser

The year before let's say Virtanen gets a 2 year 2m bridge deal and Sven gets a 3 year 3m bridge deal aav (i'm overpaying)

so 38 million left

Goldobin gets what? a 2 year 2.5 Demko 4x3 Boeser 6x7

26 million left roughly

2019 - 2020 team

Baertschi/Horvat/Boeser
Dahlen/Petersson/Goldobin
Eriksson/Sutter/Gagner
Roussel/Beagle/Virtanen

Kole Lind and Jonah are somewhere in that mix as well if Nucks buyout Eriksson or Sutter or trade them

Hughes/Tanev
Woo/Juolevi
Gudbranson/?

Demko/Marky

It's not horrible, it's not GREAT but it's not horrible. That 4th line is just bringing thuggery back for sure and having 8 million for a 4th line is a lot but the kids are paid and still have 26m to find a 3rd pairing D

This post wins the thread.

 

[Lenerdosy]

The whole thing is a tire fire, your implying that some grand strategy has taken place, when the truth is we have constantly traded picks for marginal players. Even the most incompetent GM would be able to build a prospect pool out of so many high picks. In addition it appears that Benning has missed on multiple high first rounders (Virtanen 6th Overall and Juolevi 5th overall). This narrative that they are anything but incompetent is anything but rational.

I still give him a pass for Virtanen because I still think that was the previous scouts/owners preference. I won't say he missed on OJ, simply because he hasn't played a game yet but he did have a heck of a good year in the Finnish league, eventually ended up top pair from what I heard. Is he as good as some of the others picked after but I am not going crap on him when he seems to be getting better each year.

 

[Paulinvancouver]

Is this confirmed as well?

Sweet!! I HATED this guy when he was playing for Dallas. Now fans of other teams can hate him when he's playing for us!

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Money is fine with the cap rising. Term is too long tho

 

[JoeMc]

Love it! We needed this type of player so bad!

 

[Jacob]

The 2018-2019 Vancouver Canucks: "Not horrible!"

 

[ScottishCanuck]

Again, one year too long but cap fine given that we're not struggling for space. We moan about not having grit when we don't have it and then when we go out and get it we still find a way to moan.

 

[Plub]

Vancouver.... what are you doing?

 

[THE Green Man]

You're acting like 4 years is 6 and 3 million is 6 million.

Who cares? The Nucks have cap space. And will still be well below cap after these signings. Are you Aqualini's financial manager? If no, then why do you care so much? It's not like the Canucks were ever in the market for a big name free agent. So if they spend 50 million and lose or 70 million and lose who cares. They weren't going to spend the cap on anything else.

Why give out term. Sign short 2 year deals max and grow the prospects that way. It will be even more horendous when 2-3 years from now the likes of Dahlen, Lind, Gadjovic, Palmu etc could be looking to enter the NHL but are stuck in the mud in Utica still because we are paying a 17pt 4th liner and a 37 year old to hold those spots down. The cap hit is not the issue, the 4 years is 2 years too long.

 

[Vorkosh]

Why give out term. Sign short 2 year deals max and grow the prospects that way. It will be even more horendous when 2-3 years from now the likes of Dahlen, Lind, Gadjovic, Palmu etc could be looking to enter the NHL but are stuck in the mud in Utica still because we are paying a 17pt 4th liner and a 37 year old to hold those spots down. The cap hit is not the issue, the 4 years is 2 years too long.

Okay so in a place called the real world, there's a thing called multiple teams want the same player. Then there's also a thing called a bidding war. So what happens is.. when you want something.. and someone else wants something.. That something has options and therefore has negotiation power.

Again, in 2-3 years if the kids are ready, you send Beagle to the minors. It's just money. They're not taking roster spots away from kids. They're making sure the Canucks can actually field a team. Like I don't understand what your issue is. There are open roster spots. The Canucks (who actually see these guys play every day in development camp) made a call and determined they were not ready. Therefore, they went out and found people who ACTUALLY WANT TO PLAY IN VANCOUVER.

Beagle/Rousell/Whoever/Taveres they are all looking for what's best for THEM not the team. You see how that works? Benning did not START at 4 years, that's what he was bid up to.

When the Canucks best option due to injuries has been Michael Chaput for the last 2 years. I'm pretty sure a Beagle or a Roussel is not going to make them worse or take spots away from Kole/Jonah/Whoever when their time has come. It's just a standard deal, not one with no movement. So again, if Kole Lind decides he wants to show up and out work Beagle then Beagle goes to the minors. and at that point, WHY DO YOU CARE? it's not YOUR money you're paying Beagle with, It's Aqualini's. Let him worry about it

 

[bossram]

4 years for Beagle and Roussel is highly highly highly questionable. 3M for Beagle and 3.25M for Roussel.

What is Benning actually doing?

I'd be livid as a Canucks fan.

I agree.

But tell that to tall the Benning fans drinking the Kool-Aid.

 

[bossram]

Okay so in a place called the real world, there's a thing called multiple teams want the same player. Then there's also a thing called a bidding war. So what happens is.. when you want something.. and someone else wants something.. That something has options and therefore has negotiation power.

Again, in 2-3 years if the kids are ready, you send Beagle to the minors. It's just money. They're not taking roster spots away from kids. They're making sure the Canucks can actually field a team. Like I don't understand what your issue is. There are open roster spots. The Canucks (who actually see these guys play every day in development camp) made a call and determined they were not ready. Therefore, they went out and found people who ACTUALLY WANT TO PLAY IN VANCOUVER.

Beagle/Rousell/Whoever/Taveres they are all looking for what's best for THEM not the team. You see how that works? Benning did not START at 4 years, that's what he was bid up to.

When the Canucks best option due to injuries has been Michael Chaput for the last 2 years. I'm pretty sure a Beagle or a Roussel is not going to make them worse or take spots away from Kole/Jonah/Whoever when their time has come. It's just a standard deal, not one with no movement. So again, if Kole Lind decides he wants to show up and out work Beagle then Beagle goes to the minors. and at that point, WHY DO YOU CARE? it's not YOUR money you're paying Beagle with, It's Aqualini's. Let him worry about it

I don't care about the money. It's cap space. In year 4, even IF (which they won't) you try to bury a guy like Beagle in the minors, that's still 2.1 million he counts against the cap. By then you're looking at already having new deals for Boeser, EP, Hughes potentially, OJ, Gaudette, Demko, etc. And we'll still be paying all these bad contracts Benning made from years ago.

And does it not seem like practice to just keep bidding up past what you want to pay? I mean, we all know Beagle is not worth this much. Once you're going so high, just call it quits. It's not worth it. It wasn't imperative they add him. It's not a do-or-die signing. It's just another classic case of this team spinning their wheels in mediocrity.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Literally everything you said here is stupid and wrong.

Explain why then.

 

[Vorkosh]

I agree.

But tell that to tall the Benning fans drinking the Kool-Aid.

Okay, so what exactly would you have spent the 7 million cap hit that these 2 take up on?

Most of us have agreed that the cap hit is fine because we have the space. So really it's the term. Okay, what do you have against the term? It's not a NMC deal, so there's a thing called the minors. So now they're not even taking up spots at the NHL level if the kids outplay them. And we've determined that we're okay with the cap hit so what exactly is the problem here? They play in the NHL if they're better than the kids. They play in the minors if they're not. They make their money either way. Vancouver still loses a ton of games either way and has another lottery pick next year.

It's not kool-aid. it's logic. Try using it?

 

[tyhee]

Okay so in a place called the real world, there's a thing called multiple teams want the same player. Then there's also a thing called a bidding war. So what happens is.. when you want something.. and someone else wants something.. That something has options and therefore has negotiation power. ....

In the real world there is also a thing called walking away and looking at other options. Just because others wanted Beagle and bid up the price doesn't mean that he was worth that price to the Canucks. When it gets to be too much you don't just keep bidding, you walk away and look for something else.

And Beagle IS worth more to a team that is closer to winning than he is to the Canucks. He was a bad target for the Canucks anyway BECAUSE he's worth so much to winning teams.

Some have suggested Beagle brings grit and can protect the skilled players. He took 16 penalty minutes last season, has never taken more than 28 for a season in his career and is not a deterrent to other teams running his team's players.

Future cap space has value even to rebuilding teams-more than present cap space does. When a team gets good, close to contending, it can fill in gaps and know what those gaps are. The time to do that is when you're close, when you know what the gaps are. I don't know if the Leafs are right or wrong to sign Tavares, but if they didn't have the present cap space they wouldn't have been able to do what their GM thought necessary to get his team over the top.

The Canucks three years from now will still have Eriksson, Beagle and Roussel on the payroll taking up $12 million in cap space for what by then rates to be of little value. They'll be paying their young players more by then and won't have the flexibility to trade or sign the players to get them over the top if they are by then a winning team. (I don't hold out great hope that they will be.)