Raptors Discussion: v75| Season of Kawhi Part 1: Greatest expectations

[Gary Nylund]

Those stats were from the OKC vs SA series.

Leonard is the 3rd best player in the game behind Lebron and Durant. That's the only point I was making and the goal was never to bring Kawhi down. He's miles better than DD and there's no comparison to be made in that regard.

Again, I'm no expert on the NBA but I'm quite sure there are people who know the game far better than I do who would put Curry in the top 3.

There's not much of an argument for Westbrook or Giannis to be on that list
If there is, I'd like to hear it

I think it was discussed earlier ITT. Giannis is a rising star, odds are that wherever you rank him, he'll be higher a year from now. So if we're drafting players to play this one season, it would probably be completely reasonable to draft those 6 guys ahead of him but it's quite possible that you'd regret doing so when the season is over.

I don't think anyone expected Curry to be as good as he is, until he was. Same goes for Durant.

 

[zeke]

I was comparing Durant vs Leonard in head-to-head matchups.

That's all.

How else am I supposed to do that without looking at key moments in their 2016 series? Leonard didn't show up in that series and put up empty stats which is why I broke down his performance.

why did you ignore my posts about Durant and Kawhi head to head over the last 3 seasons?

 

[Eternal Leaf]

why did you ignore my posts about Durant and Kawhi head to head over the last 3 seasons?

I apologize, I must have missed them with so many alerts. Not intentional!

I'll take a look.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

Again, I'm no expert on the NBA but I'm quite sure there are people who know the game far better than I do who would put Curry in the top 3.

Nothing wrong with that.

Curry is my favorite player so I avoid being biased with him! Kawhi (at least before injury) had a more well-rounded game compared to Curry that would nudge him ahead.

But GSW wouldn't look as good with Kawhi. Curry is definitely the engine that runs that ship.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

Again, I'm no expert on the NBA but I'm quite sure there are people who know the game far better than I do who would put Curry in the top 3.



I think it was discussed earlier ITT. Giannis is a rising star, odds are that wherever you rank him, he'll be higher a year from now. So if we're drafting players to play this one season, it would probably be completely reasonable to draft those 6 guys ahead of him but it's quite possible that you'd regret doing so when the season is over.

I don't think anyone expected Curry to be as good as he is, until he was. Same goes for Durant.

That's why the list is simply for right now
This list isn't set in stone for years and years to come

As for Giannis, he definitely could take a huge leap this season considering his age
But keep in mind, he was expected to take that huge leap last season and he pretty much had the same season in 17-18 as he did in 16-17
Developing his jumpshot is the key in making himself better and opening more space for his teammates. He may be able to take that next step or he may not be able to

 

[Eternal Leaf]

I wanted to check these head to head stats again,and add some more in, now that I'm actually awake.

Kawhi v Durant, head to head, Last 3 years, Regular Season and Playoffs (10gms)

Kawhi: 34.2mpg, 25.8ppg (49.2%), 7.2rb, 3.1ast/2.0to, 2.7st, 0.6bk, 2.4pf
Durant: 39.4mpg, 28.2ppg (48.8%), 6.5rb, 4.0ast/3.0to, 0.8st, 1.0bk, 2.1pf

per 36 minutes

Kawhi: 27.2ppg, 7.6rb, 3.3ast/2.1to, 2.9st, 0.6bk, 2.5pf
Durant: 25.8ppg, 5.9rb, 3.7ast/2.7to, 0.7st, 0.9bk, 2.0pf

and again, Kawhi's minutes are only lower because a) one game was a blowout for the Spurs and he sat after 22 minutes, b) the last game was the playoff game where Kawhi was crushing the warriors before pachulia took him out after only 24 minutes to end his season.

Interesting and great work on the stats. I'm super impressed by Leonard's offensive output.

My only concern with using regular season matchups is the "coasting" factor with these NBA teams. Lebron and Durant often coast through the regular season due to their teams being good (Lebron coasted even when his team wasn't #1). Just compare Lebron's numbers between regular season and playoffs to see what I mean.

Is there a way to only focus on their playoff stats?

I distinctly remember that 2016 series because I was cheering for the Spurs. Leonard was a disappointment in their head-to-head matchup (especially in clutch moments) and that may be shaping my opinion.

 

[Gary Nylund]

That's why the list is simply for right now
This list isn't set in stone for years and years to come

As for Giannis, he definitely could take a huge leap this season considering his age
But keep in mind, he was expected to take that huge leap last season and he pretty much had the same season in 17-18 as he did in 16-17
Developing his jumpshot is the key in making himself better and opening more space for his teammates. He may be able to take that next step or he may not be able to

Of course, I'm just saying that others would have a different list so it's not even set in stone today. I think many people (and maybe even most people) would agree with your top 6, the exact order of the 6 would have tons of variance though.

I have no strong opinion on Giannis other than he's been incredible when I've seen him play and I hope he joins the Raptors as a UFA a few years from now, as Khawi's teammate naturally.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Those stats were from the OKC vs SA series.

Leonard is the 3rd best player in the game behind Lebron and Durant. That's the only point I was making and the goal was never to bring Kawhi down. He's miles better than DD and there's no comparison to be made in that regard.

I would take Klay Thompson over Leonard. Leonard is better defensively but Thompson is much better offensively and Thompson is still very good defensively.

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

Of course, I'm just saying that others would have a different list so it's not even set in stone today. I think many people (and maybe even most people) would agree with your top 6, the exact order of the 6 would have tons of variance though.

I have no strong opinion on Giannis other than he's been incredible when I've seen him play and I hope he joins the Raptors as a UFA a few years from now, as Khawi's teammate naturally.

I do agree that within the top 6, there's a lot of variance

 

[Glenn Isildur Healy]

I would take Klay Thompson over Leonard. Leonard is better defensively but Thompson is much better offensively and Thompson is still very good defensively.

I love Klay Thompson but uh...…..based on what?

 

[BAM]

Last 3yrs

PER

1.Curry 28.1
2.LeBron 27.8
3.Westbrook 27.6
4.Davis 27.3
5.Durant 27.3
6.Harden 27.3
7.Leonard 26.8

these are the 7 clear best stats stuffers in the league. all within 1.3per over the last 3 years.

the next highest is Chris Paul, but he's a good 2.1per behind Leonard in 7th, making Leonard the logical cutoff.

Leonard is also the best defensive player on this list, and probably in the league.

I would lean towards calling durant, westbrook, and harden the weakest defensive players on that list.

I'd say curry is pretty weak defensively too, just speaking from the eye test tho I don't have his numbers on that end.

 

[Stylizer1]

Kawhi Leonard is just sick. I am not a basketball fan all that much, but I love GREAT athleticism. This Leonard, even if we just get him for one year, is a rich mans Vince Carter.

Just a great player to watch. Seems like a pretty cool guy to.

Really? Seems like an introvert who on any given day could bring his pet shotgun to work. David Robinson didn't even really know the guy for all the years Khawi was apart of the team. He said the times he did talk with him he maybe got a few words out of him. That says a lot.

 

[Stylizer1]

I would take Klay Thompson over Leonard. Leonard is better defensively but Thompson is much better offensively and Thompson is still very good defensively.

Thompson is a great spot up shooter but is nowhere near as athletic as Khawi. Thompson is a smooth player and Khawi is a baller.

 

[zeke]

I would take Klay Thompson over Leonard. Leonard is better defensively but Thompson is much better offensively and Thompson is still very good defensively.

wat.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Really? Seems like an introvert who on any given day could bring his pet shotgun to work. David Robinson didn't even really know the guy for all the years Khawi was apart of the team. He said the times he did talk with him he maybe got a few words out of him. That says a lot.

Poor taste, madam. Poor taste.

I would take Klay Thompson over Leonard. Leonard is better defensively but Thompson is much better offensively and Thompson is still very good defensively.

 

[Stylizer1]

Poor taste, madam. Poor taste.

Madam?

 

[The Nemesis]

Really? Seems like an introvert who on any given day could bring his pet shotgun to work. David Robinson didn't even really know the guy for all the years Khawi was apart of the team. He said the times he did talk with him he maybe got a few words out of him. That says a lot.

Kawhi was 12 years old when Robinson retired.

 

[AllDay28]

Really? Seems like an introvert who on any given day could bring his pet shotgun to work. David Robinson didn't even really know the guy for all the years Khawi was apart of the team. He said the times he did talk with him he maybe got a few words out of him. That says a lot.

what does it say? Should he pout and walk outta media interviews like Lebron? Should he make burner accounts like Durant? The dude gets paid to play a sport and he does it at an extremely high level.

Also, bring a shotgun to work :s .. you're a special type of stupid

 

[Stylizer1]

Kawhi was 12 years old when Robinson retired.

Legacy players are still usually part of their organizations after they retire.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[Gary Nylund]

Legacy players are still usually part of their organizations after they retire.

That was interesting, thanks for sharing. The gunshot crack WAS in poor taste though, especially considering the context of where this city is at right now.

 

[Rysto]

I don't think anyone expected Curry to be as good as he is, until he was. Same goes for Durant.

(bolding mine)

Durant was a second overall pick. I seem to recall that he got a lot of hype in his draft year.

 

[LaPlante94]

Curry is pretty much the equivalent to Kessel. Very good offensively and not so great defensively. Not gonna carry a team by himself with a weak supporting cast like we saw with Kessel in Toronto. Offensively Curry is probably better than Kawhi even though Kawhi can average around the same PPG stay as him imo. Defensively is where Kawhi is miles ahead and it's not even close. That is what makes Kawhi the better player imo. Not many good defending PGs in the league though who can play offence just as good.

 

[Eyedea]

(bolding mine)

Durant was a second overall pick. I seem to recall that he got a lot of hype in his draft year.

And he was only second because Oden was seen as an even bigger prodigy

 

[Eyedea]

Curry is pretty much the equivalent to Kessel. Very good offensively and not so great defensively. Not gonna carry a team by himself with a weak supporting cast like we saw with Kessel in Toronto. Offensively Curry is probably better than Kawhi even though Kawhi can average around the same PPG stay as him imo. Defensively is where Kawhi is miles ahead and it's not even close. That is what makes Kawhi the better player imo. Not many good defending PGs in the league though who can play offence just as good.

Very good offensively? He’s the best shooter ever.