USACHL: New Junior League?

[ElGuapo]

The USACHL would've been able to attract more than three cities because you said it's "easier because it's amazing and new," your words not mine. And hockey would be growing all over the place in areas like Tijuana, Baton Rouge, Santa Fe because it would be so easy to sell hockey because it's exciting and new. Your logic, not mine. USACHL failed because it was run like a gongshow, but they would've attracted more than 3 cities if your reasoning was actually true.

That's not my logic, I was speaking generally. Plus I wasn't speaking definitively, or say it was the only reason for anything. It also wouldn't logically follow that hockey would work in any particular place. I definitely wasn't saying it would be easier for the USACHL to attract more cities because of that, and I even clarified that in the last post.

San Angelo Outlaws [WPHL] yearly attendance at hockeydb.com
San Angelo Outlaws [CHL] yearly attendance at hockeydb.com
San Angelo Saints yearly attendance at hockeydb.com

My apologies, didn't realize that they had a previous incarnation, all I did was a quick Google search. They still averaged less than 2,500 people for 5/8 seasons of play, which dates back to nearly 20 years ago. My point still stands.

There was one incarnation. The league revoked the franchise rights from the original owners (yeah, that's how bad it was) I mentioned and some other guy took over who was in over his head. He renamed the team to try and shed the bad reputation of the previous owners. Your point doesn't stand. You were wrong and even admitted it so you don't get to still claim the point.

When you make the claim that a market, who drew okay (the around 4,000 mark isn't that strong, even by EC standards and wouldn't even be top of the SP) for three years *20 years ago* then did very poorly, would be a great market, then it's a baseless claim.

Those numbers outdid anything that anyone in their wildest dreams could have imagined possible in that market. Over 4,000 in a market of 90,000 at $12/ticket over 35 home games is incredible. It was more than okay regardless of market. I'm not sure why you keep bringing up 20 years ago. There's more potential for it now than there was back then. You of course ignore the reasoning behind it doing worse after that allowing you to say it's a baseless claim. So you're not even being honest in your argument.

Especially when there's been no interest in acquiring a team in any league, there's no possible ownership group, and they're not even capable of hosting hockey.

Interest from who in acquiring a team in what league? No one is currently talking about putting a team in San Angelo so why would there be a possible ownership group? Who said they're not capable of hosting hockey? They are capable just as they were previously. I said the City of SA isn't INTERESTED in having a hockey team in the capable arena. Interest isn't the the same as capability.

You then said if they had good ownership and an arena capable of holding hockey there would surely be a team there,

There is an arena in San Angelo capable of holding hockey. I also didn't say there'd surely be a team there (although if "they had good ownership" that would literally mean that they already have a team..........). If you mean a building where hockey would be ALLOWED to play there... I still didn't say there'd surely be a team there. But there might be. There probably (not su would have been a USACHL team there in that scenario for a month or so since they wanted to enter the market as others have before.

and that claim could be literally applied to any city in the United States.

This is wrong and you know it, and it's weird that you would say it because I doubt you believe it. It's certainly possible to have good ownership and a viable arena and have it fail. I know how hard it is to make minor league sports teams work, plus there being a lot of factors besides ownership quality and a building that go into its success, and I bet you do too.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

There was one incarnation. The league revoked the franchise rights from the original owners (yeah, that's how bad it was) I mentioned and some other guy took over who was in over his head. He renamed the team to try and shed the bad reputation of the previous owners. Your point doesn't stand. You were wrong and even admitted it so you don't get to still claim the point.

My point is and was that they didn't draw well enough. For over half of the existence of hockey in the city. And they haven't hosted hockey, in any form since I'm pretty sure they don't have even have a rec rink, since the mid-2000s. That's the same argument as the Hartford Whalers fans who say hockey would thrive in Hartford, despite it being over 20 years since they had a team. Just because something happened for a few years in previous years doesn't mean it's going to happen again. The Wichita Falls and RGV markets are a testament to that.

Those numbers outdid anything that anyone in their wildest dreams could have imagined possible in that market. Over 4,000 in a market of 90,000 at $12/ticket over 35 home games is incredible. It was more than okay regardless of market. I'm not sure why you keep bringing up 20 years ago. There's more potential for it now than there was back then. You of course ignore the reasoning behind it doing worse after that allowing you to say it's a baseless claim. So you're not even being honest in your argument.

How is there more potential now? There haven't hosted hockey in any form for over a decade! I would take that if they hosted a pre-season game or something, or if they had an active youth ice hockey scene, but does their arena even have an ice machine anymore? We're going back to the same flawed thinking as people who want the Whalers back. "It did really well considering the circumstances." It's a shortsighted argument and still has more backing than arguing selling hockey is easier since hockey is new and exciting.

Who said they're not capable of hosting hockey? They are capable just as they were previously. I said the City of SA isn't INTERESTED in having a hockey team in the capable arena. Interest isn't the the same as capability.

Have they hosted hockey in any form in over a decade? Even an exhibition game? When's the last time there was even ice put up in the city? Do they even have a rec rink? They don't have any shown interest. There's a guy on a different thread who thought that Louisville should have a NHL team, despite their rink not having ice, not having hosted hockey in any form since like 2000. His argument that people would support it because the U of L club team gets a couple hundred people for some games. Pretty nice parallel to the argument that because people supported a team for a couple of seasons a long time ago, and then didn't support the team well, that they will now.

This is wrong and you know it, and it's weird that you would say it because I doubt you believe it. It's certainly possible to have good ownership and a viable arena and have it fail. I know how hard it is to make minor league sports teams work, plus there being a lot of factors besides ownership quality and a building that go into its success, and I bet you do too.

It's a city that hasn't hosted hockey in a very long time, I don't even see a rec rink in the area just a couple of roller rinks. You made the assertion that "San Angelo would be a great hockey market if they could find decent ownership and if there was another building." The same would be true for just about any market in the United States. Look at Shreveport! They lost their CHL more recently in 2011, slowly kept and built up interest until they snagged a NA team with a decent ownership and a building and they're one of the most successful teams in the league. You're just making a gigantic blanket statement. A building where you can host the sport and an ownership group of people who aren't a bunch of clowns are usually the basic requirements for even getting a franchise! Of course, leaving out the USACHL.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Duncan: Hockey's revival in Wichita Falls never had a chance

Another funny article about Billy D from a Wichita Falls paper

 

[BOS358]

Nothing we haven't heard already from every other piece of coverage of this catastrophe.

 

[ElGuapo]

My point is and was that they didn't draw well enough. For over half of the existence of hockey in the city. And they haven't hosted hockey, in any form since I'm pretty sure they don't have even have a rec rink, since the mid-2000s. That's the same argument as the Hartford Whalers fans who say hockey would thrive in Hartford, despite it being over 20 years since they had a team. Just because something happened for a few years in previous years doesn't mean it's going to happen again. The Wichita Falls and RGV markets are a testament to that.



How is there more potential now? There haven't hosted hockey in any form for over a decade! I would take that if they hosted a pre-season game or something, or if they had an active youth ice hockey scene, but does their arena even have an ice machine anymore? We're going back to the same flawed thinking as people who want the Whalers back. "It did really well considering the circumstances." It's a shortsighted argument and still has more backing than arguing selling hockey is easier since hockey is new and exciting.



Have they hosted hockey in any form in over a decade? Even an exhibition game? When's the last time there was even ice put up in the city? Do they even have a rec rink? They don't have any shown interest. There's a guy on a different thread who thought that Louisville should have a NHL team, despite their rink not having ice, not having hosted hockey in any form since like 2000. His argument that people would support it because the U of L club team gets a couple hundred people for some games. Pretty nice parallel to the argument that because people supported a team for a couple of seasons a long time ago, and then didn't support the team well, that they will now.



It's a city that hasn't hosted hockey in a very long time, I don't even see a rec rink in the area just a couple of roller rinks. You made the assertion that "San Angelo would be a great hockey market if they could find decent ownership and if there was another building." The same would be true for just about any market in the United States. Look at Shreveport! They lost their CHL more recently in 2011, slowly kept and built up interest until they snagged a NA team with a decent ownership and a building and they're one of the most successful teams in the league. You're just making a gigantic blanket statement. A building where you can host the sport and an ownership group of people who aren't a bunch of clowns are usually the basic requirements for even getting a franchise! Of course, leaving out the USACHL.

You're just trying really hard to discount everything. Some of the things you say aren't relevant or evidence in your favor like not having an ice plant in a building. You get ice plants when you get a hockey team if there's not already one there. SA showed extreme interest in hockey, the economy is better now in there than it was then, and the city has grown quite a bit. There's a lot of reason to think hockey could do well there now, bottom line. I'm not even discounting that there are reasons it could fail. Minor league sports success is never something one should bet on. Your comparison to that Louisville thing is ridiculous, and pure trolling if you're trying to compare someone thinking a couple hundred fans for a rec team = should have NHL to- A city had minor league success = could support another low minor or junior team. You're worse than that RGV aggy.

 

[USACHL]

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LAREDO BUCKS HOCKEY TEAM | LAREDO TX | USACHL

Texas Lawmen Hockey (@Texas_Lawmen) on Twitter

Every website has been taken down except for the Laredo Bucks, but soon they will follow suit as well. Facebook accounts were either taken down or absent from posting. Fan and booster accounts have been set up where hundreds are demanding their money back with imminent threats of lawsuits. All twitter accounts have not seen any action for weeks other than that of the Texas Lawmen (aka Ludwig Media) who have agreed that Bill Davidson’s poorly written word document “press release” is filled with grammar errors and lies.

Davidson claims that he has plans on restarting his league next season in the upcoming year. It appears that the money he callously scammed was not enough. Regardless of his plans, an attempt of restarting this disaster will prove difficult due to social media being much more prevalent than fifteen years ago when Davidson was able to destroy so many lives without leaving a large footprint online.

 

[mk80]

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LAREDO BUCKS HOCKEY TEAM | LAREDO TX | USACHL

Texas Lawmen Hockey (@Texas_Lawmen) on Twitter

Every website has been taken down except for the Laredo Bucks, but soon they will follow suit as well. Facebook accounts were either taken down or absent from posting. Fan and booster accounts have been set up where hundreds are demanding their money back with imminent threats of lawsuits. All twitter accounts have not seen any action for weeks other than that of the Texas Lawmen (aka Ludwig Media) who have agreed that Bill Davidson’s poorly written word document “press release” is filled with grammar errors and lies.

Davidson claims that he has plans on restarting his league next season in the upcoming year. It appears that the money he callously scammed was not enough. Regardless of his plans, an attempt of restarting this disaster will prove difficult due to social media being much more prevalent than fifteen years ago when Davidson was able to destroy so many lives without leaving a large footprint online.

The Witchita Falls Twitter account has posting about indoor soccer a couple times lately which is strange.

 

[USACHL]

The Witchita Falls Twitter account has posting about indoor soccer a couple times lately which is strange.

Wichita Falls Force (@WichFallsForce) on Twitter

What's in a name? FC Wichita Falls seeks input from community on soccer team's moniker

WFMPEC, the building where the Wichita Falls Force used to play signed a contractual lease with three Amarillo Texas natives, two of them are co-owners of the football team the Amarillo Venom. Staff members are currently covering the iced arena for a new soccer team to play as the main attraction for the city. The ice is slated to be dissolved a week from now making the prospect of hockey returning in Wichita Falls a distant reality.

Ludwig Media tweeted those links regarding indoor soccer to update hockey fans who might not be up to par with everything that’s going on in Wichita Falls. Davidson has made it clear he plans on recrudescing the league. It would not be a shocker if he starts asking for money to bring back hockey in Wichita Falls. By then the public will know that with a full soccer schedule underway at WFMPEC it’s unmistakable Davidson’s promises are all but lies once again to scam the hockey community.

 

[JMCx4]

... Davidson has made it clear he plans on recrudescing the league. ...

Well, if he uses the verb "recrudescing" to describe his plan, he's got ZERO chance of regaining any audience.

 

[USACHL]

Well, if he uses the verb "recrudescing" to describe his plan, he's got ZERO chance of regaining any audience.

Transitive verbs are nonexistent in his vocabulary. I’m sure that wherever he goes (regardless of choice in words) an audience will follow.

 

[GindyDraws]

Ah... I'll go tell the folks over at Big Soccer about his next scheme.

 

[PCSPounder]

Seems like it's better to throw this news here than to start a new thread...

...Mr. Wagner apparently got dislodged from TJHN.

It's possible he got something egregiously wrong, or it's possible the shtick wore out.

They are looking for a new Death Pool writer. Joe Kolodziej does want to see someone with an edge, in case you're interested.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Seems like it's better to throw this news here than to start a new thread...

...Mr. Wagner apparently got dislodged from TJHN.

It's possible he got something egregiously wrong, or it's possible the shtick wore out.

They are looking for a new Death Pool writer. Joe Kolodziej does want to see someone with an edge, in case you're interested.

I did see the apology article posted they posted. Never would have thought that would happen either there or on their rivals page. The routine didn't make them appear to be very serious at all, especially when they were promoting their CSS program. It's a fine line between being edgy and whatever the Death Pool was.

 

[GindyDraws]

I did see the apology article posted they posted. Never would have thought that would happen either there or on their rivals page. The routine didn't make them appear to be very serious at all, especially when they were promoting their CSS program. It's a fine line between being edgy and whatever the Death Pool was.

I mean, I'm all for snark, but at the same time, there's thrashing incompetence and taking advantage of teenagers and young adults wanting to play hockey at all costs and then there's just going "look at them dumbasses, they so dumb!"

It also wasn't very informative. Say what you will about how elementary Bus League Hockey is; they have a better batting average and make a better effort looking more professional exploring troubled organizations than just going "Uh oh! This team's in trouble! We're not going to tell you why, other than they just are!"

 

[BOS358]

I'm guessing someone threatened a lawsuit and the mea culpa was issued as an attempt to save face. Both this guy and Heisler have printed some half-truths and non-truths over the years and this is the first ever retraction (like I said in a previous post, I get bored at work and their sites are guilty pleasures.) In fact, I remember all the times that Heisler arrogantly wrote "If what I'm saying is wrong, why has nobody sued me?"