USA Hockey Considering Ban on Fighting

[Hawksfan2828]

I used to buy into the whole 'it policies the game' thing, but over the years I've realized it's complete nonsense. Take the Torres hit on Hossa as an example. 1st game back, Mayers fights him and get their 'retribution'. Uhh...what the hell did that actually solve? You think Torres isn't gonna do that again because he got in on the head a couple of times?

Well, you have fights or star players will just "snap" and attack..

You want to see Stamkos pull a Bertuzzi because that is seriously where the game would go without enforcers...

 

[Callidusblackhawk]

Idk man, we had one of the toughest fighters in the league (Scott) on the Blackhawks and it didn't seem to stop people from taking runs at our stars...

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Well, you have fights or star players will just "snap" and attack..

You want to see Stamkos pull a Bertuzzi because that is seriously where the game would go without enforcers...

The Bertuzzi was pulled when enforcers were in vogue, so I don't get your point. Wayne Maki did the same thing long before Bertuzzi in the 60's, plenty of enforcers around then.

There will always be a one off idiot here or there, but that is not the basis for league rules.

Fighting had no impact in the stickwork, expecially highsticking which has worsened as players with lifelong cages move up to NHL.

 

[AmericanDream]

I used to buy into the whole 'it policies the game' thing, but over the years I've realized it's complete nonsense. Take the Torres hit on Hossa as an example. 1st game back, Mayers fights him and get their 'retribution'. Uhh...what the hell did that actually solve? You think Torres isn't gonna do that again because he got in on the head a couple of times?

bad comparision imo.

Mayers isn't a heavyweight or someone who "policies" the game. and Bollig is decent but really isn't his role either no matter how many times both have scrapped.

The Hawks simply didn't have that guy that could be that enforcer who SHOULD have taken Torres out that night...not the first game back the following year.

When something like that happens, a beating needs to happen then and there. I know they threw a few punches at him but nothing severe the rest of the game.

I still stand by players policing the game as you reap what you sow, and if you want to throw dangerous hits around and hurt players, a 5 minute penalty simply isn't enough to stop you from doing it again. Having to get your face pounded on the ice works a bit better.

Players policing the game has come down a ton over the past 10 years because teams no longer want to roster a spot for a thug and waste valuable space. It is still out there and still needed imo, but is becoming less and less which is why you could be seeing more and more cheap shots imo.

Seems more suspensions are getting handed out each and every year...maybe because they are trying to tighten down on these guys, but it just seems that players now more then ever are throwing more dangerous hits then in years past. Not saying it is happening just because of no "policing" on the ice, just saying it is happening more.

 

[Minowaman]

I'm all for fighting being banned but the suspensions need to get more severe for the knuckleheads. No more of this inconsistency in the suspensions too. This is where I fear banning fighting will fail because the people dolling out the suspensions never do it right.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

bad comparision imo.

Mayers isn't a heavyweight or someone who "policies" the game. and Bollig is decent but really isn't his role either no matter how many times both have scrapped.

The Hawks simply didn't have that guy that could be that enforcer who SHOULD have taken Torres out that night...not the first game back the following year.

When something like that happens, a beating needs to happen then and there. I know they threw a few punches at him but nothing severe the rest of the game.

I still stand by players policing the game as you reap what you sow, and if you want to throw dangerous hits around and hurt players, a 5 minute penalty simply isn't enough to stop you from doing it again. Having to get your face pounded on the ice works a bit better.

Players policing the game has come down a ton over the past 10 years because teams no longer want to roster a spot for a thug and waste valuable space. It is still out there and still needed imo, but is becoming less and less which is why you could be seeing more and more cheap shots imo.

Seems more suspensions are getting handed out each and every year...maybe because they are trying to tighten down on these guys, but it just seems that players now more then ever are throwing more dangerous hits then in years past. Not saying it is happening just because of no "policing" on the ice, just saying it is happening more.

I don't agree with that at all. If anything, I think it's the opposite - that if you watch games from say 10 years ago players were throwing hits they'd never get away with today.

I also don't buy that this "policing the game" thing has any effect. And, honestly, I don't think attempting to smash someone's face in until they're concussed or what not as "punishment" has any moral superiority over the cheap shot artist getting punched.

 

[Gurth]

Mayers landing a few glancing blows on Torres didn't police jack **** and it didn't make up for what Hossa had to go through - you know, being in a dark room for weeks and worrying about his career.

Fighting is pointless. Suspensions need to be harsher.

 

[Blue Liner]

bad comparision imo.

Mayers isn't a heavyweight or someone who "policies" the game. and Bollig is decent but really isn't his role either no matter how many times both have scrapped.

The Hawks simply didn't have that guy that could be that enforcer who SHOULD have taken Torres out that night...not the first game back the following year.

When something like that happens, a beating needs to happen then and there. I know they threw a few punches at him but nothing severe the rest of the game.

I still stand by players policing the game as you reap what you sow, and if you want to throw dangerous hits around and hurt players, a 5 minute penalty simply isn't enough to stop you from doing it again. Having to get your face pounded on the ice works a bit better.

Players policing the game has come down a ton over the past 10 years because teams no longer want to roster a spot for a thug and waste valuable space. It is still out there and still needed imo, but is becoming less and less which is why you could be seeing more and more cheap shots imo.

Seems more suspensions are getting handed out each and every year...maybe because they are trying to tighten down on these guys, but it just seems that players now more then ever are throwing more dangerous hits then in years past. Not saying it is happening just because of no "policing" on the ice, just saying it is happening more.

Are we really seeing it any more than we ever have before? I'm not so sure. Watch a game from the 70's or even 80's. There's as much if not more cheap **** going on on a regular basis in games in those eras and it was considered just part of the game and even commonplace, along with line brawls and bench clearing brawls. Even star players doing it. Can remember a clip of Bobby Orr taking a tomahawk wack at Stan Mikita.

I still a great way to protect your own stars if they're getting run is to start running theirs. Simple. Like a pitcher plunking a star hitter, you plunk theirs back.

 

[AmericanDream]

Are we really seeing it any more than we ever have before? I'm not so sure. Watch a game from the 70's or even 80's. There's as much if not more cheap **** going on on a regular basis in games in those eras and it was considered just part of the game and even commonplace, along with line brawls and bench clearing brawls. Even star players doing it. Can remember a clip of Bobby Orr taking a tomahawk wack at Stan Mikita.

I still a great way to protect your own stars if they're getting run is to start running theirs. Simple. Like a pitcher plunking a star hitter, you plunk theirs back.

you cant compare now to the 60's and 70's or 80's. I am talking about now compared to 10 years ago when the NHL really started focusing on this stuff. And 10 years ago almost every team still had a goon on the roster.

the players are skating faster then ever before, so maybe that is a contributing factor to this as well, but I am in no way shape or form saying things have gotten worse since the barb wire cage fighting of the 70's and 80's.

just pointing out that even with suspensions it seems to still be happening a lot. less respect for each other, a faster overall game which makes it harder to control yourself on hits, dunno. all I do know is I have to keep hearing Shanahan's stupid explanations every single week and that isn't slowing down.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Fighting will never be out of the NHL, because the players who actually play the game (not just watch from the stands or on their TV sets at home) want fighting in the game.

 

[Blue Liner]

you cant compare now to the 60's and 70's or 80's. I am talking about now compared to 10 years ago when the NHL really started focusing on this stuff. And 10 years ago almost every team still had a goon on the roster.

the players are skating faster then ever before, so maybe that is a contributing factor to this as well, but I am in no way shape or form saying things have gotten worse since the barb wire cage of the 70's and 80's.

just pointing out that even with suspensions it seems to still be happening a lot. less respect for each other, a faster overall game which makes it harder to control yourself on hits, dunno. all I do know is I have to keep hearing Shanahan's stupid explanations every single week and that isn't slowing down.

Fair enough.

 

[MurrayBannerman]

I used to buy into the whole 'it policies the game' thing, but over the years I've realized it's complete nonsense. Take the Torres hit on Hossa as an example. 1st game back, Mayers fights him and get their 'retribution'. Uhh...what the hell did that actually solve? You think Torres isn't gonna do that again because he got in on the head a couple of times?

It doesn't exactly work with the instigator penalty. For that to fly, the instigator penalty as to go.

 

[Blue Liner]

It doesn't exactly work with the instigator penalty. For that to fly, the instigator penalty as to go.

Truth. The NHL has one foot in and one foot out the door with the rule being in place. If you're going to allow it, allow it. Don't handicap it.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Fighting will never be out of the NHL, because the players who actually play the game (not just watch from the stands or on their TV sets at home) want fighting in the game.

Players didn't want helmets either.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Players didn't want helmets either.

Equipment is different than changing rules that have been in place since the beginning. Players get to vote on everything that changes, and at least 95% of the players don't want fighting removed.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Players didn't want helmets either.

Equipment is different than changing rules that have been in place since the beginning. Players get to vote on everything that changes, and at least 95% of the players don't want fighting removed.

Yup, just like removing the 2 line pass and going to hybrid icing.

 

[BobbyJet]

Fighting will never be out of the NHL, because the players who actually play the game (not just watch from the stands or on their TV sets at home) want fighting in the game.

And for good reason. I have no love for staged fights, but in the heat of the battle, no problem. Better to drop the gloves than use the stick. TBH, it is the slashing that needs to be clamped down on in this league, and I think the cheap head shots will go away when players keep getting hit in the pockets.

It gets your attention when Bobby Orr says there is a place for fighting in the NHL... as does Gretzky. Arguably, the 2 best players to ever don skates.

 

[Crazy_Ike]

It gets your attention when Bobby Orr says there is a place for fighting in the NHL... as does Gretzky. Arguably, the 2 best players to ever don skates.

Gretzky also thought more free agency was the best thing the league could ever do and said he would lead a player strike to get it. Apparently just because they play the game doesn't mean they know squat about what's best for it.

...

Anyways, this topic... man. I don't personally really have a problem with high emotion fights, I wouldn't really care if they disappeared but I wouldn't mind them staying either. But can we PLEASE get one thing clear: a goon doesn't prevent jack or squat from happening on the ice.



Look familiar? Okay good, I should hope so. Watch from the start. Wait a minute, who's that breaking up the wing when Hossa has the puck? #52, #52... who is that...

Yeah. Bollig wasn't just in the lineup, he was actually ON THE ICE when Torres tried to kill Hossa.

And there are still actually people here who have the balls to stand up and say that goons prevent cheap shots? With a video like that out there.

Give me a break.

But hey, we actually saw in the preseason a goon try to get revenge for what he saw as a cheap play. Our old friend John Scott was pilloried, tarred and feathered, and denounced from here to Kalamazoo for doing it too. I don't blame Kessel for swinging his stick at him at all, if that ape was coming at me I would probably try to shove the entire length of it down his simian throat. THAT is what you goon lovers consider "policing the game" and most the rest of us saw it for what it was - pure idiocy from a goon.

 

[IndianHeadSweater]

I agree with this. I'm shocked it's been taking so long.

I don't see a reason to tolerate kids fighting, other sports for that. I'm all for it.

Agreed. It's silly.

 

[LandofLincoln*]

If the U.S. bans fighting then this country is really going downhill. We have to fight!

 

[LandofLincoln*]

The U.S. should consider not allowing people to get their **** pushed in like the City of Sochi. Getting pushed around on the ice without fighting is like taking it straight in the stinger and not being able to do anything.

 

[BobbyJet]

Gretzky also thought more free agency was the best thing the league could ever do and said he would lead a player strike to get it. Apparently just because they play the game doesn't mean they know squat about what's best for it.

...

Anyways, this topic... man. I don't personally really have a problem with high emotion fights, I wouldn't really care if they disappeared but I wouldn't mind them staying either. But can we PLEASE get one thing clear: a goon doesn't prevent jack or squat from happening on the ice.



Look familiar? Okay good, I should hope so. Watch from the start. Wait a minute, who's that breaking up the wing when Hossa has the puck? #52, #52... who is that...

Yeah. Bollig wasn't just in the lineup, he was actually ON THE ICE when Torres tried to kill Hossa.

And there are still actually people here who have the balls to stand up and say that goons prevent cheap shots? With a video like that out there.

Give me a break.

But hey, we actually saw in the preseason a goon try to get revenge for what he saw as a cheap play. Our old friend John Scott was pilloried, tarred and feathered, and denounced from here to Kalamazoo for doing it too. I don't blame Kessel for swinging his stick at him at all, if that ape was coming at me I would probably try to shove the entire length of it down his simian throat. THAT is what you goon lovers consider "policing the game" and most the rest of us saw it for what it was - pure idiocy from a goon.

It's not quite that black and white, and this is a poor example. This was not any NHL game, it was the PO's. Bollig risked a lot if he reacted, resulting in multiple minutes in penalties to take out revenge right then and there - no matter what he had done in that instant, he wasn't going to miraculously make Hossa get better. It was the risk of taking the 2 minutes for instigating in a playoff game that was the big deterrent for Bollig or anyone else on the ice. The best think we could have done was score a couple of goals during the 5 minute major to Torres. There would be plenty of opportunities in the future to get Torres back (and that clock is still ticking, by the way).

The instigator penalty as it is defined now was (and is) one of the worst mistakes the NHL has ever made. It allows predators to hide behind the rules. By all means, take out staged fightng, but the players code will remain in tact.

 

[zytz]

Fighting is on its way out. I predict in 20 years it's gone from the game entirely. With how much more we know about concussions today, it's becoming more and more clear that there should be no place for this dangerous sideshow.

I think this is spot on. first I see the NHL possibly going the way of heavier penalties... for example possibly ejecting any player who participates in a fight, automatic x games suspensions, etc. which I think would curb the amount of fighting we see, but ultimately yes, I elieve fighting will be gone for good.

which Im fine with

 

[Crazy_Ike]

It's not quite that black and white, and this is a poor example.

"Poor" meaning in this case "devastating to the pro fighting arguments".

This was not any NHL game, it was the PO's. Bollig risked a lot if he reacted, resulting in multiple minutes in penalties to take out revenge right then and there - no matter what he had done in that instant, he wasn't going to miraculously make Hossa get better.

Regardless, the rule is there and the fact it is there makes the "fighting prevents cheap shots" argument that much weaker. You're basically changing the argument from "goons cut down on cheap shots" to "goons would cut down on cheap shots if it wasnt for the instigator rule", which is more than just arguable in and of itself since there is absolutely no objective evidence that this is the case, but the fact is the rule IS there, making it moot.

A goon literally skating beside Hossa didn't stop Torres from injuring him. That's as close to a perfect situation you can get for a goon, and he did nothing, NOTHING, to keep it from happening.

It was the risk of taking the 2 minutes for instigating in a playoff game that was the big deterrent for Bollig or anyone else on the ice. The best think we could have done was score a couple of goals during the 5 minute major to Torres. There would be plenty of opportunities in the future to get Torres back (and that clock is still ticking, by the way).

So the argument ISN'T that they prevent cheap shots, but that they can be used to get revenge at some later point? Ask Thornton how that goes. Shouldn't be hard, he has a lot of free time right now.

The instigator penalty as it is defined now was (and is) one of the worst mistakes the NHL has ever made. It allows predators to hide behind the rules. By all means, take out staged fightng, but the players code will remain in tact.

"The code" is the biggest crock of you know what ever invented. It is the abdication of a player using his brain, a retroactive justification for neanderthalism on the ice. If it's being brought up by a player, they're invariably trying to justify doing something douchy. Fact is every player in the league does whatever it takes to win, generally if they don't or won't they don't make the NHL. That includes breaking this vaunted "code" whenever and wherever they please, and THAT includes all the old-schoolers who are the ones who still bring it up (almost all goons themselves).

Anyways, that aside, I remember when Gil Stein brought the instigator rule in. I think they thought by poisoning instigation fighting would die out on its own, but it was never enforced that way. But what it WAS good at stopping was something that still bothers me when it still sort of pseudo-happens now - goons before that weren't just being used to stop cheap shots (in theory), they were being used to stop ALL physical play. Guy gets hit cleanly? Send your goon after him. I don't know about you, but I think that kind of crap is already bad enough as it is, I don't want a LEGITIMATE way of this happening to come about.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

The best think we could have done was score a couple of goals during the 5 minute major to Torres. There would be plenty of opportunities in the future to get Torres back (and that clock is still ticking, by the way).

Except...they didn't call a penalty on Torres.