USA Hockey Considering Ban on Fighting

[Blue Liner]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/19/s...-amateur-hockey-leagues.html?ref=sports&_r=2&

Thoughts? I think I'd be more in line with the kind of sanctions the CHL has put into place over a complete ban.

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[Oh_so_saad]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/19/s...-amateur-hockey-leagues.html?ref=sports&_r=2&

Thoughts? I think I'd be more in line with the kind of sanctions the CHL has put into place over a complete ban.

it was a matter of time, lets pansify hockey

 

[herbst20]

I was actually watching the game where the injury happened to Chanter. Do I ever want to see a kid having a complete seizure on the ice again? Absolutely not. It was honestly one of the most horrific scenes in sports I have ever witnessed. Do I think it was a fluke, absolutely.

Is banning fighting the answer, I don't know, but something has to be done whether it be boxing lessons or whatever. Too many kids in the USHL are off balance while fighting and I am surprised more injuries don't occur. They are more concerned with throwing haymakers than anything else.

 

[Blue Liner]

My thought process kind of is if North American professional leagues continue to tolerate fighting, you should probably have it, at least to some extent, in junior leagues. Some of the argument is "well the NCAA provides approximately 30% of the NHL's players and it's not tolerated there", but the large majority of those college players came out of the USHL and/or NAHL at some point so they've still had exposure to it. As long as it's something you may face in your professional career, you should have some exposure to it prior to then so you're not going into it completely unprepared, especially when so many players who are already there have been doing it since they were 16 years old themselves.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

My thought process kind of is if North American professional leagues continue to tolerate fighting, you should probably have it, at least to some extent, in junior leagues. Some of the argument is "well the NCAA provides approximately 30% of the NHL's players and it's not tolerated there", but the large majority of those college players came out of the USHL and/or NAHL at some point so they've still had exposure to it. As long as it's something you may face in your professional career, you should have some exposure to it prior to then so you're not going into it completely unprepared, especially when so many players who are already there have been doing it since they were 16 years old themselves.

Gonna disagree, despite the ADM crap USAHockey's purpose is not to develop future NHLers.

No place, other than professional fighting, is fighting acceptable. Socially or in athletics.

Now I love a good scrap as much as the next guy but I think it's time has passed in the game. I also loved wood sticks but they are gone too. Sniff.

 

[Gurth]

Wouldn't bother me in the least to see fighting gone from all levels of hockey.

I watch a ton of NCAA hockey and never think, "You know what this is missing?"


The Hawks rarely fight anyway. What would any of you be missing out on?

 

[Pepe Silvia]

Wouldn't bother me in the least to see fighting gone from all levels of hockey.

I watch a ton of NCAA hockey and never think, "You know what this is missing?"


The Hawks rarely fight anyway. What would any of you be missing out on?

That's part of the reason why it's exciting when they do get in a fight.

I'm not big on staged fights or having to fight after a good, clean hit.

But I do enjoy a good fight every once in a while, especially when it's a guy like Shaw. Sharp has entertaining fights as well.

 

[Nothingman*]

Wouldn't bother me in the least to see fighting gone from all levels of hockey.

I watch a ton of NCAA hockey and never think, "You know what this is missing?"


The Hawks rarely fight anyway. What would any of you be missing out on?

I am down with this. I would rather see hockey than the other BS associated with less skilled players. Then you would actually not have to have a Bollig on your team wasting a spot.

 

[Blue Liner]

Gonna disagree, despite the ADM crap USAHockey's purpose is not to develop future NHLers.

No place, other than professional fighting, is fighting acceptable. Socially or in athletics.

Now I love a good scrap as much as the next guy but I think it's time has passed in the game. I also loved wood sticks but they are gone too. Sniff.

I don't necessarily disagree, but that's part of the slippery slope. If you keep it at the professional level of hockey but ban it at the junior level, I think you create a much bigger safety issue. If it's banned altogether everywhere, I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep. But banning a junior level player from being able to do it, whatever USA Hockey's purpose, is dangerous if the pro levels are still allowing it. I know out of all the players in the USHL and NAHL not all are going to the NHL, but a lot are, and a lot of others are going to the AHL, ECHL, CHL, etc where it's still allowed and walking into a pro game against grown men who have been scrapping for years and trying then to adjust and learn how to do in those conditions is a risky endeavor in my opinion.

I see your side of it. I'm not 100% on my side of the fence, but, I lean that way right now.

For the record, as mentioned in another thread, I'm not against the idea of a ban, altogether, at all levels. I don't openly advocate for it, but I'm not against it, either.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

I'm actually a bit surprised that more junior and youth leagues haven't outright banned it entirely just from liability issues alone.

 

[Blue Liner]

I'm actually a bit surprised that more junior and youth leagues haven't outright banned it entirely just from issues alone.

It is, at least here with USA Hockey. Fisticuffs (as USA Hockey Rule Book refers to it, not my word ) brings with it a major and a game misconduct automatically. Individual leagues are free to penalize even further and many do with suspensions and such. If I remember correctly from my officiating days, per USA Hockey rules, a Game Misconduct carries a one-game suspension with it automatically. In the case of one player simply mugging and attacking another player, referees have the discretion to call a match penalty for deliberate attempt to injure, which carries much heavier discipline.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Ah, gotcha.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Fighting is on its way out. I predict in 20 years it's gone from the game entirely. With how much more we know about concussions today, it's becoming more and more clear that there should be no place for this dangerous sideshow.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

It is, at least here with USA Hockey. Fisticuffs (as USA Hockey Rule Book refers to it, not my word ) brings with it a major and a game misconduct automatically. Individual leagues are free to penalize even further and many do with suspensions and such. If I remember correctly from my officiating days, per USA Hockey rules, a Game Misconduct carries a one-game suspension with it automatically. In the case of one player simply mugging and attacking another player, referees have the discretion to call a match penalty for deliberate attempt to injure, which carries much heavier discipline.

Most leagues here, Midget, HS have an additional 3 or 5 game suspension that goes along with a fighting major.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

I don't necessarily disagree, but that's part of the slippery slope. If you keep it at the professional level of hockey but ban it at the junior level, I think you create a much bigger safety issue. If it's banned altogether everywhere, I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep. But banning a junior level player from being able to do it, whatever USA Hockey's purpose, is dangerous if the pro levels are still allowing it. I know out of all the players in the USHL and NAHL not all are going to the NHL, but a lot are, and a lot of others are going to the AHL, ECHL, CHL, etc where it's still allowed and walking into a pro game against grown men who have been scrapping for years and trying then to adjust and learn how to do in those conditions is a risky endeavor in my opinion.

I see your side of it. I'm not 100% on my side of the fence, but, I lean that way right now.

For the record, as mentioned in another thread, I'm not against the idea of a ban, altogether, at all levels. I don't openly advocate for it, but I'm not against it, either.

I don't understand why. It's not allowed in NCAA or, I don't think, any of the European leagues and people make out fine in the NHL. And of the players who come from USHL and CHL it's not as though all of them have had experience fighting...and the ones who haven't seem fine.

 

[LandofLincoln*]

The NFL settled for 765 million to the players association this year because of the concussions. This was considered a win they were asking 1.5b and it was stated the NFL paying out anything less than 1 billion would be a win for the NFL.

The NHL is going to have to pay out a settlement to the concussed players. There is already lawsuits in progress. It won't reach NFL numbers, but it will change the game. The NHL will be forced to ban concussion related contributing factors. Fighting will be ruled as a contribution to concussions.

Players could file suits saying the league encouraged and made choices not to ban contributing factors such as fighting which contribute to concussions.

Fighting won't go away until after the settlement by the NHL is paid out. I'm thinking a settlement will be reached by 2015. Owners will realize after the settlement they can't afford to be sued with payouts in the hundreds of millions.

Fighting will be out of hockey in 10-15 years completely.

 

[hockeydoug]

I'm actually a bit surprised that more junior and youth leagues haven't outright banned it entirely just from liability issues alone.

I agree with this. I'm shocked it's been taking so long.

I don't see a reason to tolerate kids fighting, other sports for that. I'm all for it.

 

[Blue Liner]

I don't understand why. It's not allowed in NCAA or, I don't think, any of the European leagues and people make out fine in the NHL. And of the players who come from USHL and CHL it's not as though all of them have had experience fighting...and the ones who haven't seem fine.

Valid point with the European players.

As for NCAA, most of them come from the USHL or NAHL or both prior to college. But still, my opinion has swayed a bit since my previous posts.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/19/s...-amateur-hockey-leagues.html?ref=sports&_r=2&

Thoughts? I think I'd be more in line with the kind of sanctions the CHL has put into place over a complete ban.

I think it's garbage because an enforcer has a role and fighting has a role in hockey..

The refs don't get everything and there is a need to "police" haha

 

[Hawksfan2828]

What do you do with a guy that gets a little bit too chippy?

Refs can't get everything.

Stuff can get out of hand too quick... Chops lead to swinging sticks like baseball bats ... Enforcers come in and slow that stuff down..

Well I suppose you don't have to be an enforcer - I'm just pointing out fighting.

 

[BronYrAur]

What do you do with a guy that gets a little bit too chippy?

Refs can't get everything.

Stuff can get out of hand too quick... Chops lead to swinging sticks like baseball bats ... Enforcers come in and slow that stuff down..

Well I suppose you don't have to be an enforcer - I'm just pointing out fighting.

What a bunch of complete nonsense. There is no evidence that fighting and the presence of enforcers decrease injuries or decrease cheap shots and dirty hits.

The hockey players are paid to play hockey. That's what they do best. Refs are paid to officiate the game. Of course the refs aren't going to be right all the time but the players show that more often than not they don't know whether a hit is clean or not because there seems to be fighting after every single big hit. The players are terrible at "policing" the game themselves.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

What a bunch of complete nonsense. There is no evidence that fighting and the presence of enforcers decrease injuries or decrease cheap shots and dirty hits.

The hockey players are paid to play hockey. That's what they do best. Refs are paid to officiate the game. Of course the refs aren't going to be right all the time but the players show that more often than not they don't know whether a hit is clean or not because there seems to be fighting after every single big hit. The players are terrible at "policing" the game themselves.

You're not even listening to what I'm saying.... I'm not even making an argument to reduce injuries - that is a different argument and different thread - I'm talking about policing on the ice.

IMO, and no offense, but if you don't play then you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about..

 

[Salvaged Ship]

If you polled the players my guess is they would overwhelmingly want to keep fighting. True or not you hear players defending it as a way to police cheap shots, limit bullying of star players. As well, it is still popular amongst fans and at times even used for marketing. Don't know if they still do, but the Hawks pregame video showed Mayers and Carcillo fighting opposing players. GM's and coaches are mostly former players who are old school, and I think they mostly belive in it as well. I don't think it will be that easy to get rid of at the pro level.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

Daniel Briere is why...

He's a lawnmower....

 

[IU Hawks fan]

I used to buy into the whole 'it policies the game' thing, but over the years I've realized it's complete nonsense. Take the Torres hit on Hossa as an example. 1st game back, Mayers fights him and get their 'retribution'. Uhh...what the hell did that actually solve? You think Torres isn't gonna do that again because he got in on the head a couple of times?