WC: USA at the 2010 World Championship

[TheHMan]

I haven't been able to watch many US games, though from what I've seen, I can totally understand that guys like Oshie and Okposo who were supposed to be carrying the load offensively, just can't get it done.

How has Foligno looked overall in this tournament though? I haven't been able to see too many games.

 

[Makkeli]

I haven't been able to watch many US games, though from what I've seen, I can totally understand that guys like Oshie and Okposo who were supposed to be carrying the load offensively, just can't get it done.

How has Foligno looked overall in this tournament though? I haven't been able to see too many games.

From my opinion Foligno was one of the best US players in first two games, and tonight solid game too.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

Rob Scuderi

It's hard to say on Scuderi or Greene with the Olympic ice.

Realize this is a bit late but was wondering about this and never posted it before. Was Scuderi ever considered for this tournament? Thought his not being selected was the biggest ommision of the Vancouver team and then to not see him at least invited to Germany, unless there were injury issues boggles the mind.

It's almost like that Dustin Pedroia commercial for the video game where he talks about polishing his MVP trophy. Scuderi was certainly a big part of the Penguins' Stanley Cup victory a year ago.

 

[Ilyeu]

Well think of it this way. Germany, Norway and Finland are good hockey nations and have some good to great players on their team. U.S.A's good talent, got out played by equally good talent. In the past the Americans have had even worse than this quality, but this team managed to keep it close each game by nations that have closed the gaps on countries "B" teams. Nothing to feel bad about, just win relegation and no worries. Lose relegation, you can call these players bums, because TEAM USA doesn't deserve relegation fate.

Good effort USA at least by the play call to at least give a game.

Too add more, I don't think you can say this team was poorly constructed or blame Burke. They worked with what they had. TSN, both commentators called this team a good team or a good potential young team. So your point is moot if you think this team has bad players. And for the record, I called this team composed of mostly average players, not bad players, just so none of you get any ideas.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

Let's assume (hope) the US pulls their act together and places 1st in the relegation group and finishes in 13th place.

We entered the tournament ranked #3. By my calculations:

Canada and Russia will stay ahead of us. Finland will also pass us regardless where they finish.

Sweden will pass us if they finish 10th or higher (this almost certainly will happen)

Czech Republic will pass us if they make the semifinals (less likely, but still definitely possible)

Slovakia will pass us if they make the finals (less likely still, but you never know)

Switzerland will pass us if they win the tournament (highly unlikely)

So this tournament will likely knock the Americans down to 5th/6th in the world. Best case scenario would be #4 (requiring a great choke job by the Swedes and a lot of other things to go right), and worst case scenario puts us at #8.

 

[Ilyeu]

Rankings don't really mean anything, championships do. No one rubs world rankings in hockey. Look at the Russians, they're rubbing in their victories at this tournament after going so long for never winning a title in the Mens Senior tournaments.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

Well think of it this way. Germany, Norway and Finland are good hockey nations and have some good to great players on their team. U.S.A's good talent, got out played by equally good talent. In the past the Americans have had even worse than this quality, but this team managed to keep it close each game by nations that have closed the gaps on countries "B" teams. Nothing to feel bad about, just win relegation and no worries. Lose relegation, you can call these players bums, because TEAM USA doesn't deserve relegation fate.

Good effort USA at least by the play call to at least give a game.

Too add more, I don't think you can say this team was poorly constructed or blame Burke. They worked with what they had. TSN, both commentators called this team a good team or a good potential young team. So your point is moot if you think this team has bad players.

I still think Burke/Poile gets some blame for this. There was next to no veteran leadership on this team, which I think hurt. Nobody aside from Clemmensen over 28. I think a guy like Modano, Cole, Rolston, etc. could have really helped in the locker room, although perhaps not as much on the scoreboard. Maybe be a calming factor for the young kids. Past teams have included vets like Jeff Halpern. There was next to no experience on the international level, and it showed.

And then they just didn't take enough offensive talent. Lots of young, hard working guys, but he needed some guys who could find the back of the net. Stafford and Stempniak are two guys who became available who could have helped in that area. And given the US still has available roster spots...not addressing either issue still falls on their shoulder.

Those were two very big weaknesses on the team, and while I appreciate the constraints Burke/Poile had to work with given the Olympics, players declining, and the fact that several good American players were still in the playoffs (not including Olympians--JVR, Gionta, Gomez, Leopold, Wheeler, Howard, Byfuglien, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some), the fact remains that the team still had glaring weaknesses.

 

[Ilyeu]

I have to agree with you that this tournament needs leadership. This tournament as for as long as I've been watching it has always been about veteran leadership and success. Just look at Jagr this year. You got of give Burke slack though for the Olympic year, he's not the only one who had a very short list to call from.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

Rankings don't really mean anything, championships do. No one rubs world rankings in hockey. Look at the Russians, they're rubbing in their victories at this tournament after going so long for never winning a title in the Mens Senior tournaments.

You're right the ranking don't really mean much (except when it comes time to decide the automatic qualifiers to the Olympics), and hopefully since there are no Olympics next year the US can put together a solid team next year and they won't slide further where that becomes an issue, but I thought it would be interesting to bring up.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

I dont see how everyone is critizing burke when the ultimate truth is ... NO ONE WANTED TO PLAY!! Everyone had "injuries" or are free agents... this is the team america was stuck with.. and i thought they had potental... forwards couldnt produce any O.

 

[William H Bonney]

Embarrassing tournament. They better suck it up and finish off it off "strong." I wasn't able to catch the final two periods today but the stats don't seem to back up an even remotely strong offensive performance again either.

I don't get the slagging on Burke and co. Assuming all these players were purposely not invited so they could take fringe players instead is really grasping at straws. In reality, in a tournament that's never held much esteem with American hockey players, they had a hard time convincing more players than normal to come that would have guaranteed a better result. It still doesn't matter though. It's on the players/coaches that were there to produce and they didn't. This team, no matter if it's our D team or whatever, shouldn't be losing three straight games to Germany/Denmark/Finland, none of which were at their best either. If anything, this tournament showed our depth isn't where it needs to be yet.

I was extremely disappointed in Okposo, Oshie and Dubinsky. If they really want to ever make the "big" team, they need to have a hell of a lot more impressive showings when representing USA Hockey going forward. Yandle should be the only "new" guy coming out of this in the good graces of USA Hockey brass. Hopefully the rest of the American players will be embarrassed enough by this tournament to more heavily consider accepting their invites in the future to help prevent this ever happening again but I won't count on it.

A sad ending to an amazing year for USA Hockey.

 

[Finnish your Czech]

If the games wer on NA ice, USA would be 3-0 instead of 0-3

 

[ronnyweed]

If the games wer on NA ice, USA would be 3-0 instead of 0-3

mainly becuase they wouldnt have the same roster, when the games are played in NA its not a hard trip for the players to make

 

[CDeeps]

Quite an embarrassing performance by Team USA. I look forward to this tournament every year, and although I wasn't expecting a gold this go-around, I certainly anticipated us making it out of the round robin without issue. Oh well, there's always next year.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Reminds me of the Torino Olympics and all of the close but no cigar losses. To lose each game by one goal has to be exasperating. My only issue with Burke and co is if he could have gotten some better offensive talent, but didn't due to some axe that he was grinding. I also agree the absence of veteran leadership in a short tourney played a part. It's a shame, because I think for the most part the defense and goaltending (Clemmensen has acquited himself well) did the job. I only hope they can avoid relegation. What a disgrace that would be. Weird tourney this year though.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

I don't get the slagging on Burke and co. Assuming all these players were purposely not invited so they could take fringe players instead is really grasping at straws. In reality, in a tournament that's never held much esteem with American hockey players, they had a hard time convincing more players than normal to come that would have guaranteed a better result. It still doesn't matter though. It's on the players/coaches that were there to produce and they didn't.

Agree with your main point - scape goating is not beneficial unless you recognize the great job that was done getting ready for Vancouver.

However, with regards to this point, it seems like Canada had the same issues for years until Lanny McDonald took over and was able to emphasize the point of playing for the good of Canada and started drawing more top line players. While I can see the logic of using a tournament such as this one as a "trial" of sorts for the younger guys. I agree with the point above about having a handful of veterans in the lineup - even if not in major roles - to both serve as mentors and get a bit of a reward. In fact, these spots could go to not just the top line players, who may see this as more of a chore, but second line veterans who may not have made the NHL All-Star games or Olympic teams in the past but have won either Stanley Cups or done things the right way throughout their careers.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I think the bottomline here is you can't force anyone to go to the World Championships, especially Americans who might have the lowest opinion of this tourney of any of the major hockey playing nations. There's also no incentive such as an Olympic roster at stake. It's shame, but its reality.

 

[mattihp]

I think the bottomline here is you can't force anyone to go to the World Championships, especially Americans who might have the lowest opinion of this tourney of any of the major hockey playing nations. There's also no incentive such as an Olympic roster at stake. It's shame, but its reality.

It's weird that americans don't have a shot to make the olympics through the world champs...

I don't think Doan and Nash would've been on the roster for the 06 olympics without great showings at the worlds.

 

[William H Bonney]

It's weird that americans don't have a shot to make the olympics through the world champs...

I don't think Doan and Nash would've been on the roster for the 06 olympics without great showings at the worlds.

I think they did with Burke at the helm to some extent. I don't think you would have seen Jack Johnson make the Olympic team without the WC he had last year. For the opposite, Tim Connolly/Jason Pominville probably blew any chance they had to make the team by not going to last years WC.

But even last year Burke and co. said they were surprised at the amount of declined invites when they said it would factor into whether you would be considered for the Olympic Team or not. It just doesn't hold much weight with any American players. Hopefully the NTDP and the instilling of pride for representing your country at a young age will help change that culture going forward though.

 

[William H Bonney]

However, with regards to this point, it seems like Canada had the same issues for years until Lanny McDonald took over and was able to emphasize the point of playing for the good of Canada and started drawing more top line players. While I can see the logic of using a tournament such as this one as a "trial" of sorts for the younger guys. I agree with the point above about having a handful of veterans in the lineup - even if not in major roles - to both serve as mentors and get a bit of a reward. In fact, these spots could go to not just the top line players, who may see this as more of a chore, but second line veterans who may not have made the NHL All-Star games or Olympic teams in the past but have won either Stanley Cups or done things the right way throughout their careers.

I agree wholeheartedly, although the challenge of achieving that is more difficult for USA Hockey than it was and is for Hockey Canada. First off, while our depth has improved greatly, it's still on the upward swing. A lot of our talent is currently young and either ill prepared to be significant factors in this tournament (without quality veterans as you point out), such as we had last year. Canada can survive getting 30 invites declined and keep plugging a long with some all star caliber players, we cannot. Secondly, which ties into the depth building, is that Canada's depth allows them to "challenge" more players to accept the challenge of playing in what they view as probably an inferior tournament. Canada can afford to lose quite a few guys from national team consideration going forward if they choose too (much like they did with say Kyle Beach and MDZ on the Junior level) and not be affected. At this point, we can't really make those threats--yet.

I think this is one of the things USAH is counting on with the NTDP though, building a camaraderie between these guys and representing their country at a young age so when they're in the NHL, they still have that fire and passion a la Jack Johnson. Hopefully it works.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

I remember hearing somewhere that Backes wasnt to much of a judgement call for the olympic team because of his dedication to playing in the WC's

 

[ronnyweed]

no re-enforcements to make sure relegation doesn't happen?

if there was ever a time to step up for your country, its now.

The likelyhood of relegation is very slim, but if it happens, guys that said no without a good reason should paint their mirrors black

 

[Oyabun]

no re-enforcements to make sure relegation doesn't happen?

if there was ever a time to step up for your country, its now.

The likelyhood of relegation is very slim, but if it happens, guys that said no without a good reason should paint their mirrors black

There is no chance that the US will get relegated. Italy, France and Kazakstan, no chance.

 

[garbageteam]

There is no chance that the US will get relegated. Italy, France and Kazakstan, no chance.

No one thought US would be in relegation round either. But yeah, those are some ****** teams... the USA went into the toughest group in terms of being relegated IMO, as there was no clear team for everyone to beat up on. Finland, Denmark and Germany are more than several levels ahead of Kazakhstan, Italy and France.

Why would any full time NHLer make the trip to play 3 games against the likes of those teams, if they said no to the prospects of playing Russia and Canada? Swim and sink with the team you've got and come back raging next year.

IF the USA does somehow managed to get relegated... I would find next year's roster to be very interesting.

 

[Oyabun]

No one thought US would be in relegation round either. But yeah, those are some ****** teams... the USA went into the toughest group in terms of being relegated IMO, as there was no clear team for everyone to beat up on. Finland, Denmark and Germany are more than several levels ahead of Kazakhstan, Italy and France.

Why would any full time NHLer make the trip to play 3 games against the likes of those teams, if they said no to the prospects of playing Russia and Canada? Swim and sink with the team you've got and come back raging next year.

IF the USA does somehow managed to get relegated... I would find next year's roster to be very interesting.

Well Denmark was supposed to be the team that everybody beat up on, the Danes felt differently. For US, Sweden, Canada, Russia, Czech, Finland, I don't think the argument of a tough group is valid although I do think you got the toughest group.


Your upcoming opponents combined score sheet from their groups is 0. There is nothing to worry about.