Blue Jays Discussion: Upton Jr acquired, also Storen & cash for Benoit

[Man Bear Pig]

Here are his stats:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/benoijo01.shtml

I see a guy having a bad year. Yes, it's true, he might be "trending down," but this year is really the first sign of it. He's been pretty consistent for multiple years.

You act as if I haven't looked at the stats. He turned 39 today. 39.

 

[Bad News Benning]

Relief pitchers tend to change from year-to-year, not within the season. For every Grilli, there's a dozen who don't bounce back in-season. I don't think anyone should bank on/believe Benoit suddenly figures it out in-season at his age. He's a 38 year old who's trending down.

We don't need him to be amazing. If he can give us a 4 ERA out of the pen it will be an improvement on a lot of the crap that has thrown out of the pen this year.

He's 39 year old who might have another good run in him. If he doesn't it's pretty easy to cut bait with him. I have more faith in a guy who has actually done it before than guys like Tepera or Schultz who are AAAA guys and aren't reliable.

 

[Scrub*]

Relief pitchers tend to change from year-to-year, not within the season. For every Grilli, there's a dozen who don't bounce back in-season. I don't think anyone should bank on/believe Benoit suddenly figures it out in-season at his age. He's a 38 year old who's trending down.

He gave up an OPS of .864 at home this year and .579 away from it.And he's pitched more innings away than at home. Just didn't pitch well in Seattle for some reason.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Relief pitchers tend to change from year-to-year, not within the season. For every Grilli, there's a dozen who don't bounce back in-season. I don't think anyone should bank on/believe Benoit suddenly figures it out in-season at his age. He's a 38 year old who's trending down.

the alternative was us paying Storen to do nothing. Anything Benoit gives us is gravy which is why this is a good deal. Sometimes these change of scenery work out. It's a total why not move.

 

[zeke]

doubt benoit helps but worth a shot.

great win. nice to finally play some weak opponents though. but we move ahead of the loathed red sox into 2nd. and don't look now but the yanks are only 4gms back of the sox. can't wai until they catch them. deelish.

and man oh man Young Devon is one helluva player.

 

[Longshot]

the alternative was us paying Storen to do nothing. Anything Benoit gives us is gravy which is why this is a good deal. Sometimes these change of scenery work out. It's a total why not move.

But he's 39! 39! Obviously that means he sucks and he should never be allowed to throw another pitch in the big leagues.

 

[zeke]

Has anyone else noticed how unbalanced the Red Sox schedule has been so far? 58 home games, only 40 on the road.

why yes. yes I have.

 

[Bad News Benning]

He gave up an OPS of .864 at home this year and .579 away from it.And he's pitched more innings away than at home. Just didn't pitch well in Seattle for some reason.

24 innings is such a small sample size as well. A couple of good weeks and his numbers could look vastly different.

Storen lost a few clicks on his fastball and was useless. Benoit is a better bounce back candidate in the 2nd half.

 

[Puckstuff]

Tonight was an epic game, and I really learned a lot about this team from their effort tonight.

1) Travis has heart, and determination. He is a high IQ player, and not a true # 9 hitter.
2) Bautista is not a component outfielder anymore. This has been evident for a while. Tonight reminded us of this.
3) Melvin Upton should be the everyday RF.
4) We already knew this, but we REALLY need some back end pitching help. Chavez 3 innings in a row guys
5) Stroman's struggles worried me for the first time tonight.

 

[Dr.Funk]

Tonight was an epic game, and I really learned a lot about this team from their effort tonight.

1) Travis has heart, and determination. He is a high IQ player, and not a true # 9 hitter.
2) Bautista is not a component outfielder anymore. This has been evident for a while. Tonight reminded us of this.
3) Melvin Upton should be the everyday RF.
4) We already knew this, but we REALLY need some back end pitching help. Chavez 3 innings in a row guys
5) Stroman's struggles worriedd me for the first time tonight.

That had a lot to do with losing the DH and the pitchers spot coming up third next time up to bat.

 

[Scrub*]

It was Benoit's birthday today.

 

[Longshot]

That had a lot to do with losing the DH and the pitchers spot coming up third next time up to bat.

I think his point was: if Schultz and Morales weren't the only pitchers left Chavez wouldn't have been needed for a third inning.

 

[Kurtz]

But he's 39! 39! Obviously that means he sucks and he should never be allowed to throw another pitch in the big leagues.

I'm not sure how you can maintain your sarcasm here given how we saw father time lay down the hammer on Buehrle and Hawkins last year.

We're sort of flipping a coin on this one...but seeing what Chapman brought back, the reliever (or all pitcher) market might be too hot to touch this deadline, in which case this is better than doing nothing.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Connor Green 7 IP complete game shutout, 7 K, 4 hits, 2 walks

 

[Scrub*]

24 innings is such a small sample size as well. A couple of good weeks and his numbers could look vastly different.

Storen lost a few clicks on his fastball and was useless. Benoit is a better bounce back candidate in the 2nd half.

Grilli's bb/9 was worse in 17 innings with Atlanta 6.9 bb/9,then 17 innings with us hes near 3.0 per 9 while continuing with big strikeouts. Yeah def another Grilli type and we gave up nothing.

 

[Longshot]

Tonight was an epic game, and I really learned a lot about this team from their effort tonight.

1) Travis has heart, and determination. He is a high IQ player, and not a true # 9 hitter.
2) Bautista is not a component outfielder anymore. This has been evident for a while. Tonight reminded us of this.
3) Melvin Upton should be the everyday RF.
4) We already knew this, but we REALLY need some back end pitching help. Chavez 3 innings in a row guys
5) Stroman's struggles worriedd me for the first time tonight.

Did we watch the same Stroman?

I thought he pitched well and got burned on a really bad pitch to a hot hitter.

I mean, no excuses - it was his fault - but I didn't see a starter struggling out there. I thought he did a solid job and made a terrible pitch with two runners on. I need to look at his line again.

I thought the three-run homer was a "it's baseball" kind of thing. I thought Stroman looked good. It's not like he was in trouble every inning and barely escaping.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

But he's 39! 39! Obviously that means he sucks and he should never be allowed to throw another pitch in the big leagues.

You're right. He's just hitting his peak now.

 

[Eyedea]

Relief pitchers tend to change from year-to-year, not within the season. For every Grilli, there's a dozen who don't bounce back in-season. I don't think anyone should bank on/believe Benoit suddenly figures it out in-season at his age. He's a 38 year old who's trending down.

25% K rate, 13.8% SwStr rate, 71.6% contact rate. vFB 94-95, vSL 85-86, vCH 83-84.

Those are the really encouraging numbers.

1.48 HR/9, 13.5% BB rate.

Those are the bad numbers. And while those are really bad, I also don't believe they are indicative of his true talent level.

 

[Longshot]

Connor Green 7 IP complete game shutout, 7 K, 4 hits, 2 walks

Trade bait for Sabathia?

 

[Rysto]

I thought the three-run homer was a "it's baseball" kind of thing. I thought Stroman looked good. It's not like he was in trouble every inning and barely escaping.

I thought that he had a lot of hard-hit balls tonight. He also gave up 7 hits, which isn't great.

 

[Eyedea]

I'm not sure how you can maintain your sarcasm here given how we saw father time lay down the hammer on Buehrle and Hawkins last year.

We're sort of flipping a coin on this one...but seeing what Chapman brought back, the reliever (or all pitcher) market might be too hot to touch this deadline, in which case this is better than doing nothing.

You're also talking about two guys that needed to generate soft contact in order to be successful. They didn't have strikeout pedigrees like Grilli or Benoit.

It's as if you're looked at like you're a fool for thinking a 39 year old at the end of his career might be done. It's even funnier when you consider they dealt Drew Storen for the guy. That should tell you how he's been pitching. But no no, you gotta have those pom-poms out and love everything the team does. How dare anyone have realistic expectations.

It's about understanding the shrewdness of the move. Despite being 39 he has not lost velocity, he still has shown an ability to strike players out, and his contact rates are still around his career norms. The only thing different is a spike in his HR/9 and walk rate, two things that can be bloated through small samples.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

I'm not sure how you can maintain your sarcasm here given how we saw father time lay down the hammer on Buehrle and Hawkins last year.

We're sort of flipping a coin on this one...but seeing what Chapman brought back, the reliever (or all pitcher) market might be too hot to touch this deadline, in which case this is better than doing nothing.

It's as if you're looked at like you're a fool for thinking a 39 year old at the end of his career might be done. It's even funnier when you consider they dealt Drew Storen for the guy. That should tell you how he's been pitching. But no no, you gotta have those pom-poms out and love everything the team does. How dare anyone have realistic expectations.

 

[Longshot]

I thought that he had a lot of hard-hit balls tonight. He also gave up 7 hits, which isn't great.

He pitched 6 and two thirds innings. That's essentially a hit an inning. And I think three of the hits were in the inning with the Dickerson homerun (one could have been a walk, I don't remember).

 

[DJB]

Consistency is needed. Benoit should provide that more than storen.

 

[Puckstuff]

Trade bait for Sabathia?

I'd settle for Brandon Kintzler