Unpopular Sports Opinions

[GIN ANTONIC]

I think that would have been fine since the Cubs were flush with prospects at the time.

But then it's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. You're overpaying for a reliever in the short term in hopes of winning a championship. Doesn't really matter if it was Chapman or Melancon or whoever.

 

[MurrayBannerman]

But then it's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. You're overpaying for a reliever in the short term in hopes of winning a championship. Doesn't really matter if it was Chapman or Melancon or whoever.

Well clearly there was a lesser price for Melancon. Even with a divisional surcharge, I doubt they'd get to Torres when Happ, Almora, and, hell, Duane Underwood was still hot at the time.

Like I said, it's certainly not something the Cubs are fawning over nor is it something I entirely fault them over, but I have a hard time calling it a good trade.

 

[Cassano]

if the angels traded prospect Mike Trout for Cody Ross, win the WS I dont think its a good trade, regardless of the win WS = win trade mentality

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

if the angels traded prospect Mike Trout for Cody Ross, win the WS I dont think its a good trade, regardless of the win WS = win trade mentality

That's a strawman. Regardless if you think Chapman was worth giving up Torres, he was considered the best (or very close to) the best closer in the game. That has elite value around the league and the cost to get an asset like that will be substantial. Cubs got Chapman with the assumption that they were getting an elite arm for a world series run. No, he didn't perform up to that standard but that was the line of thinking.

Trading Trout for Ross is obvious hyperbole but the basis for comparison just isn't there either.

 

[Cassano]

That's a strawman. Regardless if you think Chapman was worth giving up Torres, he was considered the best (or very close to) the best closer in the game. That has elite value around the league and the cost to get an asset like that will be substantial. Cubs got Chapman with the assumption that they were getting an elite arm for a world series run. No, he didn't perform up to that standard but that was the line of thinking.

Trading Trout for Ross is obvious hyperbole but the basis for comparison just isn't there either.

relief pitchers have minimal impact on games. it doesn't justify giving up top 3 prospect in the league for any one of them in any circumstance.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Well clearly there was a lesser price for Melancon. Even with a divisional surcharge, I doubt they'd get to Torres when Happ, Almora, and, hell, Duane Underwood was still hot at the time.

Like I said, it's certainly not something the Cubs are fawning over nor is it something I entirely fault them over, but I have a hard time calling it a good trade.

Yeah, obviously value wise it's not great but it all worked out in the end for the Cubs so I'm sure they're OK with it.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

relief pitchers have minimal impact on games. it doesn't justify giving up top 3 prospect in the league for any one of them in any circumstance.

Uhhh... well OK. You can debate whether or not giving up Torres was an overpay. That's fine. No one saying the value is inline with the cost. But bullpens in the post season are kind of a big deal. Ask KC how they felt about it in 2015.

 

[Cassano]

Uhhh... well OK. You can debate whether or not giving up Torres was an overpay. That's fine. No one saying the value is inline with the cost. But bullpens in the post season are kind of a big deal. Ask KC how they felt about it in 2015.

An individual reliever has minimal impact compared to probably 12-14 other players on a postseason roster, ideally.

If not, your roster is most likely flawed and probably won't sniff a WS. Unless the reliever is good to go multiple innings each game.

 

[Neutrinos]

Jose Bautista should've been sacrifice bunting during the 2016 playoffs in order to move runners over

 

[Maestro84]

KC was better than the jays in 2015

They had a better system but in terms of talent the Jays were significantly better.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Or Neither PIT and MIL trade with the Cubs because they don't want to trade within the division. Or if they do, they ask for more for a division tax.

Even if the Cubs offered up Torres for Juan Nicasio I doubt Huntington would have done it because blah blah unwritten rules blah blah.

 

[Cassano]

there's a Yankee tax in trades by some non-rival teams because of jealousy from other owners.

 

[TropicalFruitGirl2]

My unpopular opinion is:

MLB teams do not, I repeat, DO NOT, need a frickin "closer".
Sure, having a guy at the end of games to be an almost automatic 3 outs for the other team is nice, but isn't necessary for a team to be successful.
Nor do teams have to shell out ridiculous amounts of money for a guy who will pitch one inning once in a while.

I have seen a trend by some teams (mostly due to necessity) to go to a committee of pitchers at the end of games...basically go with the hot hand, or at the very least, if you have two or three very good arms in the pen, rotate them so the opposition doesn't get to see the same guy and get a chance to adjust.

You can get three good arms who combined make salary less than some overpaid 'superstar' closer, and get the same results...if not better.
Pitchers are supposed to be pros. Doesn't matter when they come into a game. They aren't children that "need to have a defined role". Just come in, get outs...whether in the 5th inning or the 9th.

And while I am at it....pitching in the 9th is with no one on is NOT harder than pitching in the 7th with runners on and less than two outs...……. and the clean 9th is when that superstar closer is being paid to pitch. Go figure.

Having a closer is thing of the past. Lots of pretty good arms out there that can get the job done as groups and if one goes down you have easy replacements.
STOP PAYING STUPID MONEY FOR ONE INNING GUYS... dammit!

 

[NJDevs26]

2016 MLB Predictions

They went from 13% to 17%. So, you're right. The change was larger than I expected.

I get the angle of trying to fit things within your timeline, but I don't think that's the case. The Cubs elected to pay a top end price in a red hot market. It worked out, sure. But, as you said, how does this change if one or two things just don't go their way in the playoffs? A good comparison is their deal for Quintana. Without him, they're not a playoff team and not an NLCS team, but because they didn't win the World Series. He's pitched well, despite a rough 2018, and has filled just a critical of a need.

That also doesn't factor in the possibility that if Chapman didn't go to the Cubs he could have gone to one of the teams competing with them in the playoffs.

 

[darko]

if the angels traded prospect Mike Trout for Cody Ross, win the WS I dont think its a good trade, regardless of the win WS = win trade mentality

It's not.

 

[rangerssharks414]

My unpopular opinion is:

MLB teams do not, I repeat, DO NOT, need a frickin "closer".
Sure, having a guy at the end of games to be an almost automatic 3 outs for the other team is nice, but isn't necessary for a team to be successful.
Nor do teams have to shell out ridiculous amounts of money for a guy who will pitch one inning once in a while.

I have seen a trend by some teams (mostly due to necessity) to go to a committee of pitchers at the end of games...basically go with the hot hand, or at the very least, if you have two or three very good arms in the pen, rotate them so the opposition doesn't get to see the same guy and get a chance to adjust.

You can get three good arms who combined make salary less than some overpaid 'superstar' closer, and get the same results...if not better.
Pitchers are supposed to be pros. Doesn't matter when they come into a game. They aren't children that "need to have a defined role". Just come in, get outs...whether in the 5th inning or the 9th.

And while I am at it....pitching in the 9th is with no one on is NOT harder than pitching in the 7th with runners on and less than two outs...……. and the clean 9th is when that superstar closer is being paid to pitch. Go figure.

Having a closer is thing of the past. Lots of pretty good arms out there that can get the job done as groups and if one goes down you have easy replacements.
STOP PAYING STUPID MONEY FOR ONE INNING GUYS... dammit!

I completely agree.

 

[darko]

Teams don't need closers? Tell that to Atlanta fans.

 

[TropicalFruitGirl2]

Teams don't need closers? Tell that to Atlanta fans.

Exactly.
If they had a capable bullpen with consistent arms, no ONE guy would need to be a closer.

 

[TonyDeAngelo]

Pete Alonso is overrated.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Teams don't need closers? Tell that to Atlanta fans.

Exactly.
If they had a capable bullpen with consistent arms, no ONE guy would need to be a closer.

They've been the hottest team in baseball over the last several weeks without a closer. I believe their pen has the best ERA since mid-August (small sample, but still....)

 

[Terry Yake]

Pete Alonso is overrated.

username checks out

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Teams need guys who can get the final outs. In theory, they're 3 just like the other 27, but they can be much more mentally taxing than the first 24. I don't think some guys just rise up all the time in high stress situations, but I believe there are guys who let the 9th get in their head more than others.

 

[bluesfan94]

I think you can say that the Cubs overpaid for Chapman while still acknowledging that they'd probably do it again. Perfectly fair value doesn't necessarily matter when you're talking about current vs future contributions.

 

[bluesfan94]

Teams need guys who can get the final outs. In theory, they're 3 just like the other 27, but they can be much more mentally taxing than the first 24. I don't think some guys just rise up all the time in high stress situations, but I believe there are guys who let the 9th get in their head more than others.

I also think that having defined roles can help a guy know what to expect day in day out. Obviously it won't always work out like that, but still

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

I also think that having defined roles can help a guy know what to expect day in day out. Obviously it won't always work out like that, but still

Creatures of habit. Plus, knowing what is expected out of you is key in any career.