devbouz12
Eugene's dad
- Jan 15, 2012
- 2,107
- 1,409
Safe to say you voted for the meh prospect, seeing as you mention him in your username...Who do you like better, the meh prospect or meh roster player from the Karlsson trade?
Safe to say you voted for the meh prospect, seeing as you mention him in your username...Who do you like better, the meh prospect or meh roster player from the Karlsson trade?
Safe to say you voted for the meh prospect, seeing as you mention him in your username...
No, it means we don't know which one of those guys will be better. Do I think someone from that group emerges as a legitimate top-six option? Of course. Do I think some of those guys will completely bust? Obviously.
Micklebot put it best in the other thread, it essentially boils down to Chris Tierney (50 point, decent middle-six type) vs the field (many prospects with okay ceilings, low floors and tons of question marks). Ask me to pick Tierney vs the field and I'm taking the field, ask me to pick Tierney vs any of those guys specifically and it's hard to figure out exactly which one ends up better.
I definitely think one of those guys ends up better (maybe significantly) better than Tierney, but as of now there's nothing to separate them from the pack.
*Duclair is an entirely different case than the other prospects, as he's obviously flashed at the NHL level. Personally, I'm scared off by the 4 organizations in 2 years and his reported attitude/commitment issues. If he's figured those out he absolutely deserves to go ahead of Tierney, but that can be said for a few of the other guys in the top-10 as well.
but if you vote Tierney, it means that all the guys remaining (who have better ability/potential than Tierney) have a very small likelihood of reaching potential in your eyes.
Uhhh, when are people going to start voting for a goalie. Hogberg is really starting to come into his own, and we also have Gustavsson waiting in the wings. I think one of goalies should have been in the top ten.
Shouldn't the creator of these polls not be able to vote? Also is there a threshold you need to win by to move onto the next player? cause Tierney got more votes
That's your opinion. There isn't a prospect left on that list who is a guaranteed 40-50pt nhl player who can play in different situations.
Additionally Tierney is turning 25 this year so he probably shouldn't even be in this poll cause people can't differentiate between proven talent vs potentially that easily
It was a brutal take, highly questionable if Balcers wins this poll. Tierney will probalby play atleast double maybe triple the amount of NHL games Balcers will play. It appears that its very hard for people to distinguish a players ability to play both sides of the puck. Or that a proven track record actually means something.
Well thats why they were voted ahead of Tierney. I find it strange how everyone seems to think that only the prospects currently in the organization and the players on this current team are all going to get chances to play and score at the NHL level. The sens are going to be adding more and more players through the draft, trades free agency etc. If a player doesnt solidify their place in the lineup soon they will be moved along they need to show they are elite players and to carve out a role. Tierney has essentially already done that and has the trust of the management group and his coachs, not many others on this list can say the same.
To me we see Tierney close to what his upside is.. and we see a pretty raw prospect in Balcers... Do you project Balcers to improve and develop enough to be a better player than Tierney. At the risk of having another hot take of the year according to one of Balcers' strongest supporters from the home country.. I think its more likely Balcers does not reach that. Many others (28/43) as of now imagine that he will be better.
Bingo, this is pretty much my reasoning.
Different strokes for different folks, I'm not trying to crap on you for voting strictly (mostly?) based on upside. Just defending my (and a few others) stance on taking "likelihood to reach that potential" into consideration. I mean, there are guys left that I feel like have higher upside than Formenton, but that doesn't make them better prospect (just to give a non-Tierney example).
Balcers is arguably already better than Tierney. He's already a much better skater and goal scorer.To me we see Tierney close to what his upside is.. and we see a pretty raw prospect in Balcers... Do you project Balcers to improve and develop enough to be a better player than Tierney. At the risk of having another hot take of the year according to one of Balcers' strongest supporters from the home country.. I think its more likely Balcers does not reach that. Many others (28/43) as of now imagine that he will be better.
lol Tierney is nothing special in that regard. Name me one thing he does above NHL average? Hockey sense is the only thing I see. I haven't watch all Sens hockey this year because of general apathy but my scouting report on Tierney isn't glowing, plus he has poor advanced stats. He's a decent little player you want to have as your 8th/9th best forward, not in the top-6 (5th highest TOI/GP among forwards this season and 3 of them are now gone). I see this season as his career season offensively, like Smith when he scored 25 goals.
I could say the same about Borowiecki, Smith, Ceci, etc but they get constantly lambasted here. It will be the same eventually for Tierney when he gets a little bit older and gets played too much (outside of the comfort zone he should be in). That is IF the Sens decide he's part of the core going forward.
Well, somebody gets it. It's a simple question, really.
The question of the poll is NOT "who is the most proven at the NHL level?"
Balcers is arguably already better than Tierney. He's already a much better skater and goal scorer.
He certainly is. Tierney is a very poor skater and Balcers is plus.Its not arguable at all unless you cant identify anything but individual skill. He is definitely not a 'much better skater'.
He certainly is. Tierney is a very poor skater and Balcers is plus.
Why? Like I said, he's a better goal scorer, the thing you actually have to do in a hockey game better than your opponent. He's also a better skater. He's more useful because of that.You're lost on this one. There is a small argument to be made that Balcers could end up being a better hockey player but to even try and suggest he is right now shows you really have a hard time identifying anything more than just flash and dangle.
Why? Like I said, he's a better goal scorer, the thing you actually have to do in a hockey game better than your opponent. He's also a better skater. He's more useful because of that.
You're lost on this one. There is a small argument to be made that Balcers could end up being a better hockey player but to even try and suggest he is right now shows you really have a hard time identifying anything more than just flash and dangle.
He's pretty bad. Bad at shooting. Bad at skating. Bad at playing any kind of defense that doesnt involve taking faceoffs.
All he brings to the table is scoring and he doesn't do that well. This guy is epidemi of a tweener and will be 25 in a few months. Any player who you feel has a shot at being a top 6 guy should be selected before Tierney. He's just a guy collecting points on terrible team. Roster filler. Completely unremarkable and replaceable. The best comparison I can think of for him is Tyler Arnason.
Having Tierney over Duclair is lunacy.
Why? Give me a reason. We see Balcers routinely beat guys with his legs. He creates separation. You will almost never see that from Tierney. D men often will turn and catch up to him.The bolded portion really shows how much thought you put into evaluating a player. No point in continuing this discussion we wont agree.
Why? Give me a reason. We see Balcers routinely beat guys with his legs. He creates separation. You will almost never see that from Tierney. D men often will turn and catch up to him.
This isn't hard to see.
As for goal scoring, easy to see Balcers is better just by their numbers. Tierney was never a great junior scorer and hasn't been at the NHL level either. 10.8 career s% for Tierney, 8.3 this year for a miserable 9 goals for. For comparison zack Smith is at 8.2 with 8 goals scored. So, he's as good as Zack Smith.
Balcers is shooting 11.4 and has 5 goals in less than half the games and nearly 3 whole minutes less per game of ice time. 15 goals in the AHL in only 38 games. Led his AHL team in goals by 8 last season as rookie.
Its not even close.
I dunno if you can say its cherry picked when I'm specifically talking about goal scoring. If you could guide me to the false claim, I'd appreciate it.You know that people can simply look these things up. Tierney outscored Balcers in each of their best seasons in Jr (40 goals 89 points) vs (40 goals 77 points) and the WHL is a higher scoring league. Tierney is currently outscoring Balcers badly in the NHL, he is scoring at a .61 ppg while Balcers is .39. You are trying to push an agenda, while making false claims on stats then cherry picking goal scoring when Tierney is a primarily a playmaker.
Again we dissagree leave it at that. You like flashy players we get it. You're not into things like real production, defensive awareness etc.
I dunno if you can say its cherry picked when I'm specifically talking about goal scoring. If you could guide me to the false claim, I'd appreciate it.
But you seem to disagree with the numbers. I'll assume you just think Tierney is a better skater and goal scorer. Why? We don't really know.
Edit: oh wow, you think Tierney has good defensive awareness... I don't really know what to say about that haha. We better stop. I don't think you've seen this guy play.
No, that is you misrepresenting what I said. I said Tierney wasn't a great junior scorer. 11 goals in his draft year. 18 d+1. 40 d+2.Are you kidding me? You just said that Balcers was a better jr scorer.... That is your false claim.
No, that is you misrepresenting what I said. I said Tierney wasn't a great junior scorer. 11 goals in his draft year. 18 d+1. 40 d+2.
Balcers only played one year of junior in his first year in North America, so I didn't bother comparing their numbers, I was only showing Tierney has never shown a knack for scoring, whereas Balcers has been in the past few years in the AHL, the NHL and internationally.
Anyways, it doesn't matter. You think Tierney has a great two way game. We're not even watching the same player. You're either very confused or making stuff up.
Lol you are unbelievable. They were both 19 in the years I compared their jr stats. I am neither confused or making things up you are the one denying facts that have been presented in front of you and you dismiss them because its not convenient for your argument.
Ill ask you again do you feel more qualified than the sens current coaching staff, former coaching staff and the coaching staff of the San Jose Sharks? They all used Tierney in a pk and matchup role. I guess they arent watching the same player as you are or maybe we are all correct and you are the one this is wrong in this instance. Kindof like you were dead wrong about Tkachuk and many many other players over my time on this board. You also dont think Bobby Ryan is an NHL hockey player. You make up your mind about a player then choose to ignore all logic when its presented to you in an argument.
Then as I see in another thread you have the audacity to call everyone else stupid that doesnt agree with you.
The bolded is really what you wanna nitpick on? Lol