Post-Game Talk: Uncomfortably comfortable win

Soundwave

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The problem is that Pietrangelo isn’t a stud #1 anymore and instead they’ll have Eichel (health/performance uncertain) + aging Stone/Pacioretty with reduced depth due to cap issues. They’ve basically become later era San Jose Sharks except with less depth.

I mean based on what they started with.

Most GMs would have fell in love with that original team and spent a boat load of money to retain Neal and Perron probably.

It's a different approach to management, but I like it. Seattle seems like they are doing things the more traditional way, but who knows they may not contend for anything for 10 years.

I think Pietrangelo is still a no.1 D, he's just off to a poor start this year but his numbers even a year ago were stellar.
 

Cloned

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I mean based on what they started with.

Most GMs would have fell in love with that original team and spent a boat load of money to retain Neal and Perron probably.

It's a different approach to management, but I like it. Seattle seems like they are doing things the more traditional way, but who knows they may not contend for anything for 10 years.

I think Pietrangelo is still a no.1 D, he's just off to a poor start this year but his numbers even a year ago were stellar.
Vegas might’ve “upgraded” themselves right out of contention, if that was ever possible.
 
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Behind Enemy Lines

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Nice.

His transformation from this relatively shy young man about 2-3 years ago to an absolute boss with the media now is quite something. I feel that he and Nurse are the real leaders on this team and you can see it in how they come off in their pressers, just oozing leadership IMO and way more comfortable with the press than they used to be.

This isn't to take away from McDavid and Nuge but those guys were robots when they entered the league and are the same robots today. Drai and Nurse have real personality. The core is a good mix of on ice skillset and personalities.

I'm not sure about that. There's a clear deference for Connor McDavid for both his unique abilities, legendary conditioning including the work boots to come back from a potential career ending injury (and within a schedule where he didn't miss any regular season games). Like Gretzky, McDavid's virtuoso abilities were identified early and both harbour a low key public persona (and genuine personalities I believe too) that deflect from their personal achievements and frankly seem embarrassed by that unrelenting attention careful to be as vanilla as possible - more duty than something they want to do. There's different styles of leadership which we see on this Oilers team and the great 80's Dynasty. Nugent Hopkins is also more of a cerebral, introverted personality type that isn't comfortable talking about himself but rather focused on team success.

Both Draisaitl and Nurse have professional athletes for fathers and in Nurse's case an elite NFL quarterback as an uncle. Very helpful in nurturing all of the characteristics for life as a pro athlete. Both are also pretty gregarious personalities who are more direct in answering questions. Their confidence shines through and increasingly we see more of their personalities in these media availabilities. Draisaitl is by far the best interview on the team. He is humble in deflecting attention from his achievements, laser focused on winning, and quick to be a defender or champion of his teammates. Notable as an example is when media and fan attention is on Yamamoto having a tough start production wise Draisaitl speaks positively of the ways that Yamamoto is making a positive contribution on the ice.

This team is like a brotherhood much like the 80's Oilers. In McDavid and Gretzky you have two giant superstars setting the culture through their generational talent, unquenchionable hunger to win, and strong families that have instilled values to be humble, team focused and inclusive to winning. Draisaitl, Nurse echo Messier and Kevin Lowe as the fire to their generational running mates's ice, more vocal and fiery in their leadership style following beside and complementing their best player and captain. Nugent Hopkins is somewhat like Jari Kurri as a more subdued complementary leader.

In both team's cases, their best players were their greatest leaders in setting the culture, work ethic, and brotherhood required to buy-in, support one another and chase championships. The blend of leadership styles is another strong competitive advantage imo.
 

Soundwave

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Vegas might’ve “upgraded” themselves right out of contention, if that was ever possible.

I don't really see how, Eichel, Stone, Patches, Pietrangelo, Karlsson, Theodore is a pretty solid core. That isn't like a bunch of 33/34 year olds either.
 
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iCanada

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I don't really see how, Eichel, Stone, Patches, Pietrangelo, Karlsson, Theodore is a pretty solid core. That isn't like a bunch of 33/34 year olds either.

Next year they have the following;

Patches - Eichel - Stone (great first line; stone & patches old though, plus injuries question mark?)
Marchessault - Karlsson - Smith (acceptable second line)
Dadanov - ????? - ?????
Carrier - ????? - Stephenson

Martinez - Pietrangelo
Theodore - ??????
McNabb - Coghlan

Lehner
Brossoit

That's 16 of 23 guys and they have a projected 3.5 million in capspace.

Put your armchair GM cap on. How the f*** do you make that team not suck ass with 3.5 million, no prospects ready to graduate, and no tradeable draft picks?
 

bone

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Just wondering... How would the end of the game played out if we hadn't scored? The net was empty and Connor (who had the puck) was taken down and a penalty was called. Does the puck carrier have to be in the offensive zone when the penalty is called to have it as an awarded goal? Or are the refs waiting to see if we can put in the net ourselves before awarding a goal to McDavid?

The penalty needs to be committed on the puck carrier to my understanding for it to be automatic. It might even need to be penalty shot worthy to be an automatic goal. That penalty was committed in the defensive zone well before they got down ice so a missed shot and Nashville possession would have just been a penalty.
 

Cloned

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I don't really see how, Eichel, Stone, Patches, Pietrangelo, Karlsson, Theodore is a pretty solid core. That isn't like a bunch of 33/34 year olds either.
It’s top heavy and they’ve somehow put themselves in a situation where they’ll have less cap space than the Leafs or the Chiarelli Oilers to add other pieces.
 

Soundwave

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It’s top heavy and they’ve somehow put themselves in a situation where they’ll have less cap space than the Leafs or the Chiarelli Oilers to add other pieces.

Almost every team is top heavy, we're probably still more top heavy than they are.

This mythical franchise that has tons of depth and elite players at the same time doesn't exist. You have to pay good players, sooner or later, you can at best maybe avoid it for a year or two.

Even Colorado, their cap has tightened a lot and will get tighter as MacKinnon's deal is coming up on expiring.
 
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Cloned

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Almost every team is top heavy, we're probably still more top heavy than they are.

This mythical franchise that has tons of depth and elite players at the same time doesn't exist. You have to pay good players, sooner or later, you can at best maybe avoid it for a year or two.

Even Colorado, their cap has tightened a lot and will get tighter as MacKinnon's deal is coming up on expiring.
We’re top heavy with two top 3 players in the world though. There’s a difference.

Colorado lost a bunch of depth in the summer and it’s showing so far this year. Vegas will have a very similar makeup to them except with even less depth and less dynamic offense on D.
 

Soundwave

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We’re top heavy with two top 3 players in the world though. There’s a difference.

Colorado lost a bunch of depth in the summer and it’s showing so far this year. Vegas will have a very similar makeup to them except with even less depth and less dynamic offense on D.

It's the same with every team. We likely cannot keep both Puljujarvi and Yamamoto even with salary cleared. Likely Barrie has to go after this season just to pay for Puljujarvi's raise.
 

Cloned

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It's the same with every team. We likely cannot keep both Puljujarvi and Yamamoto even with salary cleared. Likely Barrie has to go after this season just to pay for Puljujarvi's raise.
And we’ll still be in a better position because we actually have prospects coming up that can fill those roles and a deeper roster overall. Vegas literally has no NHL-ready impact prospects and the roster looks incredibly shallow.
 

Soundwave

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And we’ll still be in a better position because we actually have prospects coming up that can fill those roles and a deeper roster overall. Vegas literally has no NHL-ready impact prospects and the roster looks incredibly shallow.

Prospects are incredibly risky though too ... I mean the odds that Krebs is a Eichel tier player is maybe 5% odds ... and that's probably being generous.

It's a very small window too with young players if they're actually good. We're going to be paying Bouchard a good deal of money probably pretty soon and having Nurse at 9.25 ... that's going to be a lot of coin.
 

Cloned

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Prospects are incredibly risky though too ... I mean the odds that Krebs is a Eichel tier player is maybe 5% odds ... and that's probably being generous.

It's a very small window too with young players if they're actually good. We're going to be paying Bouchard a good deal of money probably pretty soon and having Nurse at 9.25 ... that's going to be a lot of coin.
You need to have ELCs in more important roles than ideal in a cap system though. Vegas have somehow capped themselves out and shortened their window considerably.
 

Soundwave

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You need to have ELCs in more important roles than ideal in a cap system though. Vegas have somehow capped themselves out and shortened their window considerably.

Which window did they really have though, I don't think they actually had one. You're not winning a Cup with Karlsson as your no.1 C.

With Eichel to go with Pietrangelo ... OK, maybe. If that roster is completely healthy come May (which is cheating effectively because they'll be like $10 million over the cap, but the NHL allows that nonsense to continue) ... they have probably the best roster in the West on paper.
 

Cloned

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Which window did they really have though, I don't think they actually had one. You're not winning a Cup with Karlsson as your no.1 C.

With Eichel to go with Pietrangelo ... OK, maybe. If that roster is completely healthy come May (which is cheating effectively because they'll be like $10 million over the cap, but the NHL allows that nonsense to continue) ... they have probably the best roster in the West on paper.
They went all in on a move that requires so many ifs to work out that they would’ve been better off just staying with the status quo.
 

bone

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Next year they have the following;

Patches - Eichel - Stone (great first line; stone & patches old though, plus injuries question mark?)
Marchessault - Karlsson - Smith (acceptable second line)
Dadanov - ????? - ?????
Carrier - ????? - Stephenson

Martinez - Pietrangelo
Theodore - ??????
McNabb - Coghlan

Lehner
Brossoit

That's 16 of 23 guys and they have a projected 3.5 million in capspace.

Put your armchair GM cap on. How the f*** do you make that team not suck ass with 3.5 million, no prospects ready to graduate, and no tradeable draft picks?

Now that they've got their core where there is a very good to excellent top 7 forwards and top 4 defense and along with pretty good goaltending. They'll just need to find entry level players or cheap players ala Shore to fill the gaps. They'll likely need to dump one more $5M+ player to be replaced with a $3M player. It will be tough, but three straight years, I couldn't figure out how Vegas would navigate their cap crunch and they always seem to figure it out, so I wouldn't ring the death knell of cap hell quite yet.

But no doubt this is a huge gamble akin to going all in on a pair of Queens with an unsuited Ace showing on the flop with multiple players still in play, that Eichel with a reasonable supporting cast can lead you to excellence. I'm not so sure I'd bet on that.
 
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Tobias Kahun

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Almost every team is top heavy, we're probably still more top heavy than they are.

This mythical franchise that has tons of depth and elite players at the same time doesn't exist. You have to pay good players, sooner or later, you can at best maybe avoid it for a year or two.

Even Colorado, their cap has tightened a lot and will get tighter as MacKinnon's deal is coming up on expiring.
It existed just last year, did you not see Tampa’s roster?
 

bone

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Thinking more on Eichel. He's currently the 11th highest cap hit in the league, 8th amongst forwards. His game is scoring and offense. Only one season has he cracked the top 10 in scoring and only one other time the top 50. Throw in injury concerns with the current situation, and a some questions about his leadership abilities, this could go sideways really quickly.
 

bone

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with stone and eichel out a good chunk of the year im not convinced vegas makes the playoffs, they have 3 good d men and 2 bunk ones and they still havent scored a PP goal this year. thats a sign of lack of skill.

This trade kicked their contention window a year down the road unless all of these guys can pull a Kucherov and come back for playoffs.
 

iCanada

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This trade kicked their contention window a year down the road unless all of these guys can pull a Kucherov and come back for playoffs.

I think this is almost an all in type move banking on a Kucherov from Eichel. But like... the VGK might not even make the playoffs?!

I don't think they're a threat next year. Will have too much dead roster.
 

bone

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I think this is almost an all in type move banking on a Kucherov from Eichel. But like... the VGK might not even make the playoffs?!

I don't think they're a threat next year. Will have too much dead roster.

The other factor could be if Eichel heals too quick, then they'll have to dump at least $8M mid season either through other LTIR assignments, shortening their roster (which they have at least the option with their farm team in state) or trades. You have to assume they are going to try and set the narrative to be that his recovery will take longer than the doctors are saying, currently 3 months, but they are already trying to say 4-5 months despite the prior reports saying otherwise.
 

Soundwave

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The other factor could be if Eichel heals too quick, then they'll have to dump at least $8M mid season either through other LTIR assignments, shortening their roster (which they have at least the option with their farm team in state) or trades. You have to assume they are going to try and set the narrative to be that his recovery will take longer than the doctors are saying, currently 3 months, but they are already trying to say 4-5 months despite the prior reports saying otherwise.

His recovery time is going to magically line up with day 1 of the playoffs if they can eek out enough wins, just as Kucherov had a magical recovery just in time for the playoffs.
 
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5 14 6 1

We are the 11.5%
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Thinking more on Eichel. He's currently the 11th highest cap hit in the league, 8th amongst forwards. His game is scoring and offense. Only one season has he cracked the top 10 in scoring and only one other time the top 50. Throw in injury concerns with the current situation, and a some questions about his leadership abilities, this could go sideways really quickly.

Guy has the talent. Let's see if he can turn it into actual production. He's broken 80 points once, and thirty goals once.

Will definitely follow this closely post surgery. Eichel didn't have the best team around him but also accomplished nothing with Hall, OReilly, Reinhart and Co over the years.
 

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