Post-Game Talk: Ugly. Leafs lose 4-2

[CanadasTeam]

Do people even realise how silly comments like these make them sound? Its ok to not like a player, but really....

I read so many bizarre comments on almost every player last night -- the overreaction is insane. We shouldn't be allowed to post after a loss till the next day once everyone had a chance to calm down.

Edit: Case in point, just saw a new thread pop-up: "Marner to the AHL?"

 

[Nithoniniel]

We're a 7-4 team with a huge slump on the goaltender, our entire secondary scoring line, and one of our key defenders. That's definitely the positive.

 

[Rogie]

The new Bozak line of Marleau -- Bozak -- Marner did nearly nothing last night.

Coach is right it was totally ineffective.

Martin -- Moore -- Marner was far more dangerous and had greater impact on a game.

Thought Leivo had a lot of jump, but then you would have to expect that being his 1st game of the year and wanting to claim a regular spot.

I agree on the new line - BUT - I think we need to give it some time - a new line that is, or, any new line.

Last year, Babcock left his lines in tact for long long long stretches and whether things were good or bad, he just left things to sort themselves out. And, yeah, you could say, everything was new, all these rookies, we have to let them make mistakes in order to learn - so, he left lines together and seemingly NEVER wanted to make a change unless it was very obviously something was wrong and needed to be changed or there was an injury. Otherwise, it was Babcockism #whatever, you have to take someone's job etc.

But, the JVR/Bozak thing, well, this is whole separate thing from everything else. Every coach since the beginning of time has left them together and Babcock has as well. They're just here until their time is up - I honestly think management just sees it as such - just let them play out their time and we'll move on from them.

Thus, the least drama of all - and there isn't too much these days with Lou in charge - but, there won't be ANY drama about the JVR/Bozak line. It won't help things. Through it all, the worst thing we've heard or insinuated was just now, when Babcock said something like, I don't know, there's been a number of players go through there and it's still the same. But, I don't think they'll go any further than this.

It's too late (imho) to break them up to see if you can't get more (defensively) out of one or both of them when they are apart.

But, if Babcock and management (cause this isn't exactly a soup question/issue) decide that they're going to try separating them, then, well, we need to give it more than a game or two or three.

It's just one game, ONE GAME, and, the Flyers come out flying and there's a lot of pressure suddenly make all the problems (defensively) of the past just go away - well, it's not happening.

Marleau (and I like his game and the way he's played this year) but, frankly, he didn't exactly mesh with Kadri out of the chute.

They didn't do well Marleau/Bozak/Marner. Let's give it 5 or 10 games to see if Bozak could possibly be better defensively; being away from JVR, he's never really experienced what it's like to have TWO player on his line that are willing to go in a corner or backcheck etc etc.

But, I'm not sure if this test is going to happen - or if Babcock just puts them back together and shelters them the best he can for the remainder of the season (like last year) and then they'll be on their way.

 

[francis246]

Nice to see our defence improve with Leivo in the line up.

I hope this game proves that our defensive woes are not solely on that Bozak line or JVR specifically. It's a team issue right now and it needs to be addressed all around.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Once upon a time, people swore Tybo was better than Kadri.

Let that sink in.

Yeah I think it was the same guys who were calling Kadri "an easily replaceable 32 point centre" and said Komarov was also better.

We got outgoalied. It's that simple. But they also capitalized on their chances with good finishes, and we put great chances wide repeatedly.

Now the issues: Andersen is an anchor right now. He doesn't move right, he doesn't react right to shots, he goes down early. Our defense gives up the blueline way too easily. Forwards still doesn't support the defense well enough. They don't help the breakouts enough. And tonight, we couldn't maintain pressure outside of the Matthews and Kadri lines.

Great
Kadri - Two goals and allround solid play from Kadri, who is doing his part to show that last year was not a fluke.

Good
Matthews - Dangerous, but a bit unfocused in his passing tonight. Missed a chance he normally converts on as well.
Hyman - Hyman makes a nice play, gets the puck back, makes a nice move and misses a backhand. Stonehands, awful, get him off the line. Matthews does exactly the same, crickets. He's at a point with this fanbase where it doesn't matter what he does, people will only key in on any kind of failure.
Leivo - Leivo has produced at the same level as a Corey Perry, a Zach Parise, a Palmieri, while being ridiculously strong in shot metrics and expected goals. Yet some talk about how he's utterly replaceable and "has not done enough in his chances." We have 11 high end top nine wingers right now, and Leivo was last in line. That has nothing to do with his performances, or his quality.
Rielly - Keep performing as a real top pairing defender now that he's no longer getting drowned in tough minutes.
Nylander - Less noticeable than usual, smaller role than usual. Still, can't deny that he was good. He needs to start scoring on some of his chances though.

Average
Marleau - Marleau didn't have a great night, but he had a consistent effort. He always does all that he's supposed to, and I think that's worth an average grade.
Brown - A bit of a mixed bag, but he fits well on that line.
Komarov - A touch of the old aggressiveness. It's nice to see him show at least something.
Zaitsev - Z struggled a bit defensively, but had several nice plays to create things offensively.
Hainsey - Very quiet tonight. Had a bad pass or two, but mostly he's just a nice safety blanket for Rielly.

Bad
Bozak - I feel for the guy. Nothing works right now. He couldn't even pass straight tonight, and he's usually a very accurate passer.
Marner - I had hoped we'd see Marner start to turn on the fire. It's actually a bit worrying that despite the fourth line, despite everything that has happened since, his most memorable moment was a lazy backcheck. He's got a motor. It's perplexing that he isn't using it consistently.
Moore - Was mostly an after thought on that line.
Kapanen - Showed nice speed a few times, could have/should have had a goal on a clean chance. Too quiet otherwise.
Gardiner - He needs to start skating. It's that simple. A skating Gardiner opens up space, and gives himself options. When he has clear options, he does well.
Borgman - He needs to stop making things unecessarily difficult for himself in the defensive zone.

Awful
Polak - Man, I'm glad we signed him.
Andersen - His performance was our loss. This time it wasn't a loss with average goaltending. It wasn't absurd goaltending on the other end. It was just bad goaltending on his part.

Edit: Having looked at some stats for the game, I was probably too nice to Bozak, Marner, Marleau. They could probably all drop one step. Completely owned.

LOL. Thanks, appreciate the summary as always.

 

[Eb]

We played very well

 

[thewave]

Are you kidding
Our whole team is a hot mess.
Except for the 1st line
God I would hate to see this team without Mathews.
We are missing on def. and no offensive zone time.
Are passing is not crisp at all.
Anderson can be better but the team sucks right know.

Yes they are a hot mess with only certain elements playing right. We have Line 1 and that's that. Kadri and his line is pretty good as well mist nights. Morgan Jake Polak, bad. Mitch Komarov jVR Bozak Martin bad. Thats a heck of a lot of a team to be completely out to lunch and they really aren't doing much right.

 

[Trapper]

We're a 7-4 team with a huge slump on the goaltender, our entire secondary scoring line, and one of our key defenders. That's definitely the positive.

I try not to put to much stock into October as NHL play can be a little loose at times. Last couple of years Habs can go 10-0 but that's not who they are.
November is coming. Teams are now better in their structure. They are tightening up in the neutral zone and reading the book on how teams are playing.
As I've said this up and coming team still has its issues. The goali playing better is one of them but I think Andersen will. So that's an in house correctable.
However the components I think we are lacking (D upgrade, better cycle, heavier play, more speed/pressure forecheck) may not be in house.
Now we will start to see what we are with the new month upon us.

 

[Pi]

Andersen is getting beat by "perfect shots" all season long. Wonder what the shooters did to get so much better over the offseason.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

We're a 7-4 team with a huge slump on the goaltender, our entire secondary scoring line, and one of our key defenders. That's definitely the positive.

Exactly. Look at Arizona, Montreal, or Edmonton for teams with comparable bad luck. They all have awful records

 

[AppsSyl]

Glass 1/2 full.....We are 7-4, despite some significant areas to improve, which obviously will improve.

Glass 1/2 empty......We are only 7-4. Can Babcock, send Marner to the AHL, trade Freddy.

 

[leafsfan1234]

Would be nice to play McBackup a game or two so we have a better idea if Andersen has really been this terrible.

 

[deletethis]

I'm not seeing the type of defensive engagement from this entire Leafs' team, especially but not exclusively the forwards, that I see the opposition doing to the Leafs. The Leafs' offensive talent Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Kadri, JVR, Marleau, etc. NEVER get the time and space that the Leafs give to the opposition's high end offensive talent. It's almost like the Leafs are surprised when the opposition don't play dump and chase off the rush. This all looks correctable. It seems to be half way between coaching schemes and player execution/intensity. If you're a fast team, there's no reason that the opposition should get so much time and space to make plays.

 

[deletethis]

Leivo was very good on an otherwise not-so-good 4th line. My lone criticism of Leivo is him extending his shift too long a few times.

 

[fahad203]

Once upon a time, people swore Tybo was better than Kadri.

Let that sink in.

There was a time Bozak was our best Center. No doubt about that. Kadri was very inconsistent. The skill was there, every Leafs fan acknowledged that. But Kadri couldn't have been relied upon to go against other teams top line and didn't kill penalties.
Bozak had a better overall game. However, that's no longer the case

Kadri to my surprise and I was a Kadri basher did turn it around. Players do get better and some do get worse. Cleary that's the case here

I am tired of Bozak. I have no confidence in him in any situation. He simply doesn't bring it. The time has definitely come for both parties to separate.
I will not miss him but I do have a sense of appreciation for him. He has been a good soldier but even soldier but time to move on


I am ok if Babs decides to call up Altonen and give him a shot. He looked decent in preseason. Can't be worse than Bozak. I am even ok with Fehr. At least Fehr will grind

 

[weems]

 

[ShaneFalco]

I'm not seeing the type of defensive engagement from this entire Leafs' team, especially but not exclusively the forwards, that I see the opposition doing to the Leafs. The Leafs' offensive talent Matthews, Nylander, Marner, Kadri, JVR, Marleau, etc. NEVER get the time and space that the Leafs give to the opposition's high end offensive talent. It's almost like the Leafs are surprised when the opposition don't play dump and chase off the rush. This all looks correctable. It seems to be half way between coaching schemes and player execution/intensity. If you're a fast team, there's no reason that the opposition should get so much time and space to make plays.

Agreed. It is odd that guys get so much time and space. Andersen needs to be better but guys walk right in and fire away.

 

[Leaf4Life]

This makes no sense...

If the players had no trust in the goaltending, wouldn't you think that would cause them to sharpen up defensively?

It seems to me like our players have too much trust in our goaltending right now...

It makes perfect sense actually.

If a team trusts a goalie they will play the pass and force the other team to shoot. Trusting the goalie means they trust that if he gets a clean look the goalie will make the save. It also means playing a structured defense and forcing the opposition to make shots from the perimeter.

Not having trust in a goalie forces the team to chase the puck to try to force a turnover as they feel any shot on goal has a chance at going in.

 

[zeke]

the new bozak line got absolutely caved in in this game.

jvr is not the problem.

 

[Stephen]

Andersen is getting beat by "perfect shots" all season long. Wonder what the shooters did to get so much better over the offseason.

Shooters usually get better when they have two things to work with: 1) time and 2) space.

 

[zeke]

Shooters usually get better when they have two things to work with: 1) time and 2) space.

3.goalies leaving half the net open to shoot at.

 

[bobermay]

It makes perfect sense actually.

If a team trusts a goalie they will play the pass and force the other team to shoot. Trusting the goalie means they trust that if he gets a clean look the goalie will make the save. It also means playing a structured defense and forcing the opposition to make shots from the perimeter.

Not having trust in a goalie forces the team to chase the puck to try to force a turnover as they feel any shot on goal has a chance at going in.

Andersen has been making most of those saves when we're playing structured defense though...

 

[weems]

How I see our team.

We move our feet and compete and we're a great team who dictates play.

We dont move our feet and we're not a good team and look extremely soft and play on our heels.

 

[Stephen]

3.goalies leaving half the net open to shoot at.

Isn't that Reimer technique?

 

[PromisedLand]

Freddie doesn't trust his team defense and is overplaying many shots.

He needs to be squared and have faith a little; and team needs to do a better job with team defense.

They have to be patient with and without pucks and stop chasing.

Puck pressure is not the same as chasing the puck.

Also what happened to Willy's shot? Seems like goalies are swallowing it