GDT: UFC Fight Night: Holloway vs. Rodríguez

[I am not exposed]

I was never keen on Max vs. Volk 3. Even though Dana was saying that's what the fans wanted!

I thought Max should win a couple of fights, and if Volk is still the champ, then do Max vs. Volk 3. Well, that has happened, so that is the next fight to make.

Ortega vs. Yair also would be a good fight.

 

[pistolpete11]

Maybe their game plan was to have their opponent "burn out his arms going for the choke"

I didn't see the Rothwell fight, so I can't comment on that... but a fighter shouldn't be penalized with a loss on their record because of a ref's error

It would be like a hockey ref calling a goal in overtime believing the puck went in... then immediately realizing the puck didn't go in... but the game is declared over anyway

Would your argument be "don't let the puck go in your own zone if you don't want the ref to call a phantom goal"?

MMA is a competition... and in the spirit of that competition, a fighter should be more willing to reset a fight they may have been seconds away from winning, rather than accepting a win they didn't earn

It's nothing like that actually.

You're trying to solve a problem that is just creating different problems. Nothing is going to be perfect, but yes, I'd err on the side of don't get f***ing rocked or put into a deep submission attempt as opposed to screwing the other guy over. If your 'strategy' is to get put into a submission attempt to burn your opponents arms out, then get a new strategy because that one is f***ing stupid.

 

[Perennial]

It's nothing like that actually.

You're trying to solve a problem that is just creating different problems. Nothing is going to be perfect, but yes, I'd err on the side of don't get f***ing rocked or put into a deep submission attempt as opposed to screwing the other guy over. If your 'strategy' is to get put into a submission attempt to burn your opponents arms out, then get a new strategy because that one is f***ing stupid.

Clearly you know best...

Good talk!

 

[pistolpete11]

Clearly you know best...

Good talk!

I don't know what to tell you, man. You asked a question to a message board, I gave you my opinion, and then the points you used to push back on my opinion are:

1. What if a fighter purposely gets put into a guillotine?

2. Compare it to a completely different scenario in a completely different sport.

And no, it's not at all the same. If the ref thinks the puck is in and calls it a goal, they simply review it. If it was, great, game's over. If it wasn't, they reverse it and have a face off which they would have done anyway if the ref didn't make the wrong call. No harm no foul. Stopping a fight is completely different for the reasons I already stated. You're letting a guy recover when he very well could have been on the verge of getting stopped if the ref didn't stop the fight. So then all you're doing is shifting the anger for the ref from one fighter to another. It's not solving anything.

If you want to compare it to hockey, it would be closer to if a ref blew the whistle but the puck was still loose. It's unfortunate, but you've go to live with the ref's call. You don't put everybody back where they were, put the puck on the goal line, and then tell everybody "OK, on the count of 3".

 

[pistolpete11]

I was never keen on Max vs. Volk 3. Even though Dana was saying that's what the fans wanted!

I thought Max should win a couple of fights, and if Volk is still the champ, then do Max vs. Volk 3. Well, that has happened, so that is the next fight to make.

Ortega vs. Yair also would be a good fight.

It's kind of similar to Whittaker getting the Izzy rematch. Obviously it's a little different because Max lost 2 close ones and Whittaker got finished emphatically but only once. But when they go and pick up 2-3 top 5 wins, I mean, you gotta give them another shot.

The weird thing will be if Max wins a close decision. You'd have to give Volk a rematch. You'd probably have to give him a rematch even if he got beat cleanly. I want to see the 3rd fight because I thought Max won the second fight, but I don't know that I'd want to see a 4th any time soon. Unless Max plans to go to 155 after that fight regardless (I don't think he should) and you put Volk right back into a title fight against someone else? I don't know.

 

[Perennial]

I don't know what to tell you, man. You asked a question to a message board, I gave you my opinion, and then the points you used to push back on my opinion are:

1. What if a fighter purposely gets put into a guillotine?

2. Compare it to a completely different scenario in a completely different sport.

And no, it's not at all the same. If the ref thinks the puck is in and calls it a goal, they simply review it. If it was, great, game's over. If it wasn't, they reverse it and have a face off which they would have done anyway if the ref didn't make the wrong call. No harm no foul. Stopping a fight is completely different for the reasons I already stated. You're letting a guy recover when he very well could have been on the verge of getting stopped if the ref didn't stop the fight. So then all you're doing is shifting the anger for the ref from one fighter to another. It's not solving anything.

If you want to compare it to hockey, it would be closer to if a ref blew the whistle but the puck was still loose. It's unfortunate, but you've go to live with the ref's call. You don't put everybody back where they were, put the puck on the goal line, and then tell everybody "OK, on the count of 3".

The example of a fighter purposely getting put in a guillotine was obviously facetious...

And your hockey example is flawed... because when the ref prematurely blows the whistle with the puck still loose, the game isn't declared over at that point with a victory being awarded to one of the teams

 

[pistolpete11]

The example of a fighter purposely getting put in a guillotine was obviously facetious...

And your hockey example is flawed... because when the ref prematurely blows the whistle with the puck still loose, the game isn't declared over at that point with a victory being awarded to one of the teams

Right. Closer, not identical. Meaning an unfortunate mistake by the ref might have changed the outcome of a game, but there's nothing you can do about it. You've just got to live with it.

 

[Taytro]

I hope Max goes to 155 from now on.

As much as Volk v. Max 3 would be really fun it'd almost assuredly end in another close 5 round decision that won't do anything for anyone.

Lol, what?! I love Max but did you see Holloway vs Poirier? Max should absolutely not go to 155, the guys are stronger, hit harder, and still extremely technical. One of the deeper divisions when it comes to top end skill in my opinion. Max would have a very rough go.

Yair is tough as hell and brought it today, but Max did what Max does. Didn't expect it to go to the ground at all, but otherwise it went about as expected and why I was looking forward to this one.

Max might be some punching power away from being the GOAT.

If Max adds that power he would likely lose what makes him good now. He'd lose some of his pressure, his cardio, and his volume. You can't keep his output up while throwing more power in there.

A good reference is when Gino D'Acampo said "If my grandmother had wheels she'd be a bike". When someone commented on adding to recipe. It changes the thing. If Holloway threw power, he'd be an entirely different fighter, who knows if he'd even be remotely successful.

 

[Chaels Arms]

Lol, what?! I love Max but did you see Holloway vs Poirier? Max should absolutely not go to 155, the guys are stronger, hit harder, and still extremely technical. One of the deeper divisions when it comes to top end skill in my opinion. Max would have a very rough go.



If Max adds that power he would likely lose what makes him good now. He'd lose some of his pressure, his cardio, and his volume. You can't keep his output up while throwing more power in there.

A good reference is when Gino D'Acampo said "If my grandmother had wheels she'd be a bike". When someone commented on adding to recipe. It changes the thing. If Holloway threw power, he'd be an entirely different fighter, who knows if he'd even be remotely successful.

When I say "go to 155" I don't mean fight in the 155 division as a featherweight which is exactly what he did when he fought Poirier. I mean take some legitimate time off and grow into the weight class and stay there for the foreseeable future.

If he fights Volk again it's going to be another close five round decision. I haven't seen anything from either fighter since their last fight that makes me believe a new fight is going to be drastically different from the first two. Plus if Max wins he's almost assuredly going to have to do Max v. Volk 4 instantly because how are you not going to give Volk an immediate rematch in that situation. I just don't need to see those guys spend the next year or year and a half circling each other just to find out at the end of it all that they're extremely evenly matched. I know that already.

 

[pistolpete11]

If Max adds that power he would likely lose what makes him good now. He'd lose some of his pressure, his cardio, and his volume. You can't keep his output up while throwing more power in there.

A good reference is when Gino D'Acampo said "If my grandmother had wheels she'd be a bike". When someone commented on adding to recipe. It changes the thing. If Holloway threw power, he'd be an entirely different fighter, who knows if he'd even be remotely successful.

I'm not suggesting he changes anything, but I think a lot of power is just natural. You can mess with the formula to maximize certain areas, but some guys just hit harder naturally and Max isn't one of them.

 

[pistolpete11]

Also, regarding Max going to 155, the power discrepancy between him and Poirier was very evident. I think he'd have similar issues with Gaethje and Chandler, so it limits what he can do at 155 and why I don't think he should do it. But there are still a lot of fights that I'd give Max a decent chance at winning. Oliveira, Dariush, RDA, Tony, Hooker, Conor, etc. I'm not saying he'd win all of these, but he could. His chances against Islam would be about as good as anyone else's. I mean, he was competitive with Poirier even, so it's not outside the realm of possibilities that he could beat Poirier, Gaethje, and Chandler even if I don't like his chances much, especially if he took some time to adjust his body for the division like @Chaels Arms is suggesting.

 

[Taytro]

I'm not suggesting he changes anything, but I think a lot of power is just natural. You can mess with the formula to maximize certain areas, but some guys just hit harder naturally and Max isn't one of them.

Yeah I agree. I actually think he consciously chooses to throw volume over power. I think he could hit harder than he does (maybe still not power puncher levels) but makes the choice not to. Can't blame him, it's been pretty successful.

 

[Taytro]

When I say "go to 155" I don't mean fight in the 155 division as a featherweight which is exactly what he did when he fought Poirier. I mean take some legitimate time off and grow into the weight class and stay there for the foreseeable future.

If he fights Volk again it's going to be another close five round decision. I haven't seen anything from either fighter since their last fight that makes me believe a new fight is going to be drastically different from the first two. Plus if Max wins he's almost assuredly going to have to do Max v. Volk 4 instantly because how are you not going to give Volk an immediate rematch in that situation. I just don't need to see those guys spend the next year or year and a half circling each other just to find out at the end of it all that they're extremely evenly matched. I know that already.

Yeah I also don't have any real interest I'm seeing Max vs Volk 6 but that's what we're gonna see if Max keeps running through every other test he's given.

I can't see Max having the type of success at 155 that he has at 145 regardless of how he gets there. I just dont invision him having a leg up on guys like Poirier, Gaethje, Makhachev, etc. I think he can be competitive with/beat Olivera, Hooker, Ferguson, etc but I see him more as a tier 2 guy at lightweight, that 5-10 rank range rather than 1/2 in featherweight. Just my opinion