GDT: UFC 284: Makhachev vs. Volkanovski

[ViD]

That sounds like a salty accusation without any proof

 

[CDJ]

That's not really enough for me. I don't think he did much of all from that position. Tell him to do more or stand them up.

I see both sides of your guys argument. Very minor damage vs control/subs is pretty tough to judge. Those are the rounds that should be 10-10 and let the other rounds decide it. I know that isn't the rules, but IMO it should be

Shouldn’t be 10-10. If those things are deemed equal (sub attempts vs flailing) then it goes to control time. Round goes to Islam.

 

[m9]

Shouldn’t be 10-10. If those things are deemed equal (sub attempts vs flailing) then it goes to control time. Round goes to Islam.

Sorry I should have been clear that I agree it's probably an Islam round based on the current scoring system but I just think it's a flaw in the scoring system to have someone win that round. I'd rather call those 10-10's to essentially throw those rounds out.

 

[Neutrinos]

Shouldn’t be 10-10. If those things are deemed equal (sub attempts vs flailing) then it goes to control time. Round goes to Islam.

You continue to be dismissive of those strikes, but many of them landed clean

So, flailing or not, Volk was repeatedly punching Islam in the face

And in a fight, punching someone in the face should count for more than spooning someone while trying to hug their neck

 

[CDJ]

You continue to be dismissive of those strikes, but many of them landed clean

So, flailing or not, Volk was repeatedly punching Islam in the face

I’m dismissive of those strikes because fighters are dismissive of those strikes. They’re not damage. They’re not significant.

I thought you agreed to disagree!

 

[Neutrinos]

I’m dismissive of those strikes because fighters are dismissive of those strikes. They’re not damage. They’re not significant.

I thought you agreed to disagree!

Objection! That's pure conjecture!

I shared a video of a fighter being dismissive of "control time"

Where's your supporting evidence?

 

[CDJ]

Objection! That's pure conjecture!

I shared a video of a fighter being dismissive of "control time"

Where's your supporting evidence?

A guy that’s actually taken judging courses. This is why he gave Islam round 4 (as did every sane person)

Now you gonna stick to the agree to disagree or not lol


SHOTS THROWN LIKE THAT DO NOT DO DAMAGE AND SHOULD MORE OR LESS BE TOSSED OUT WHEN JUDGING. You can either agree or disagree, but they actually teach the judges that those are basically nothing.


Because they are. They’re nothing.

 

[Neutrinos]

A guy that’s actually taken judging courses. This is why he gave Islam round 4 (as did every sane person)

Now you gonna stick to the agree to disagree or not lol


SHOTS THROWN LIKE THAT DO NOT DO DAMAGE AND SHOULD MORE OR LESS BE TOSSED OUT WHEN JUDGING. You can either agree or disagree, but they actually teach the judges that those are basically nothing.


Because they are. They’re nothing.

As @m9 said, it's more about a flaw in the scoring system

And your post does nothing to prove your previous assertion that "fighters are dismissive of those strikes"

 

[CDJ]

As @m9 said, it's more about a flaw in the scoring system

And your post does nothing to prove your previous assertion that "fighters are dismissive of those strikes"

I’m saying they’re dismissive of them because they don’t count and then I showed you what they teach in judging- THAT THEY DONT COUNT. I’ve seen fighters intentionally trying to throw their foreheads at those p***y strikes to try and break the flailers hand. Those. Shots. Don’t. Do. Damage. No amount of mental gymnastics you do will change that. Also islam landed better strikes before hitting the ground.


I’m done with this discussion, its actively making me stupider.

 

[m9]

Aaron actually says he gave it to Islam for the work on the feet in the first 90 seconds of the round, at least by my interpretation. Or he's at least factoring that in. I've watched it again - I don't really see much difference in what they did on the feet which gets us back to the ground game.

I think this will end up being a great "go-to" round in terms of MMA evolving reffing and judging.

I've already said that Islam should be warned to do more or the fight will be stood up and I really believe that. I guarantee that if this sport is still around in 15-20 years the rules will evolve to be more spectator-friendly and steer away for these kind of time-wasting holds that accomplish very little.

I also really, really don't like that this round was the deciding factor in who won the fight. The work on the feet is minimal and everything on the ground is useless. Islam isn't trying to finish the fight and Volk's punches are pretty much useless (and he knows that) and the only reason he's doing it is because he knows he can't get out but figures he might steal a round that way. The sport has to embrace "even" rounds a bit more as the worst result are the Jones/Reyes type where you have one clear winner in 2 rounds losing to a guy who barely won 3 rounds.

 

[Neutrinos]

I’m saying they’re dismissive of them because they don’t count and then I showed you what they teach in judging- THAT THEY DONT COUNT. I’ve seen fighters intentionally trying to throw their foreheads at those p***y strikes to try and break the flailers hand. Those. Shots. Don’t. Do. Damage. No amount of mental gymnastics you do will change that. Also islam landed better strikes before hitting the ground.


I’m done with this discussion, its actively making me stupider.

Save the drama for your mama

I thought you were saying fighters were dismissive of those strikes because they didn't hurt, not because of how they were being scored

 

[CDJ]

Save the drama for your mama

I thought you were saying fighters were dismissive of those strikes because they didn't hurt, not because of how they were being scored

Both. They are scored the way they are because THEY DONT DO DAMAGE. That’s all I got, I think we’ve made our points plenty clear.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

Round 4 was never in discussion as possibly being a round for Volk though, it’s rounds 2&3 (5th being obviously his).

I do agree that Islam having his back for as long as he did in round 4 with no threat shouldn’t count for anything. It was pretty obvious he had nothing and wasn’t going to get anything, ref should’ve stood them up.

 

[Jasper]

I thought it was likely even coming down to the 5th, so thought that Volkanovski should have won the fight. The live odds they were showing didn't agree with that though, still heavily favouring Makhachev late so I don't know. Can't say it was robbery and I was a bit biased towards Volk winning.

 

[CDJ]

Couldn’t help myself

Btw Volk didn’t even give himself round 4.

 

[pistolpete11]

Granted I can only see half of this argument, but who won R4 isn't even worth discussing. Striking was basically nonexistent and 1 guy had a dominant grappling position. Case closed.

The more interesting discussion IMO is whether the ref should have stood them up. I hesitantly say 'yes'. I'm hesitant because I'm afraid the pendulum would swing too far the other way like the scoring system. Guys were stealing rounds because they got a takedown in the last 10 seconds. Ridiculous. But this damage is all that counts is also not right IMO. Getting a takedown is significant. Control time is significant. Getting to a dominant positions like the back with a full body triangle is significant. I just wouldn't want it to turn into "well, it's been 30 seconds and you haven't submitted him yet, so let's get back to the feet." I also don't like the idea of the guy being defensive stalling it out expecting the ref to stand them up. That guy should have to try to get out of that position, too.

In this case, I do think Islam was the one stalling, though, and it went on for several minutes. I think he should have been warned and eventually stood up if all he was doing was hanging on still.

 

[m9]

Granted I can only see half of this argument, but who won R4 isn't even worth discussing. Striking was basically nonexistent and 1 guy had a dominant grappling position. Case closed.

The more interesting discussion IMO is whether the ref should have stood them up. I hesitantly say 'yes'. I'm hesitant because I'm afraid the pendulum would swing too far the other way like the scoring system. Guys were stealing rounds because they got a takedown in the last 10 seconds. Ridiculous. But this damage is all that counts is also not right IMO. Getting a takedown is significant. Control time is significant. Getting to a dominant positions like the back with a full body triangle is significant. I just wouldn't want it to turn into "well, it's been 30 seconds and you haven't submitted him yet, so let's get back to the feet." I also don't like the idea of the guy being defensive stalling it out expecting the ref to stand them up. That guy should have to try to get out of that position, too.

In this case, I do think Islam was the one stalling, though, and it went on for several minutes. I think he should have been warned and eventually stood up if all he was doing was hanging on still.

Yup. They were down on the ground for 3-1/2 minutes doing nothing. About 90 seconds or so in, give him a warning. Chances are you actually see more action or if not, you stand them up with 45-60 seconds left and we get some finality to figure out who wins the round.

Was glad to see Luke Thomas agree with this on MK yesterday, too... or at least raised it as a possibility that the inaction was on the ref doing nothing.

 

[CDJ]

I don’t hate the idea of standing ppl up if they have a couple min of back control and aren’t trying for subs or landing damage

 

[chicagoskycam]

It's kind of rare someone has back control for so long and gives up going for Subs, etc. I have an issue standing them up with such a dominant position, it could be a mess. Guys are just going to try to stalemate the position rather than get out. I feel Islam did enough to win that fight but it was close, and Volk came out as the winner despite the outcome.