GDT: UFC 284: Makhachev vs. Volkanovski

[MMC]

 

[CDJ]

Would you rather have your opponent unsuccessfully "trying for a choke", or repeatedly punching you in the face?

Maintaining a dominant position shouldn't count for much when you're getting beat up while holding it

Yeah again I don’t consider those punches significant in any way and I don’t consider that “getting beat up”

 

[16Skippy]

I’m fine with the score and it was a great fight. I’m know my initial takeaway is that Islam isn’t Khabib part 2, but it was a solid win and the fact that is was closer than expected shouldn’t overshadow things.

And obviously impressed with Volk for being able to fight off Islam’s ground game to that extent, and for striking that well while one of his favourite attacks was barely available.

 

[Neutrinos]

Yeah again I don’t consider those punches significant in any way and I don’t consider that “getting beat up”

But they're more significant than what Islam was doing

 

[CDJ]

But they're more significant than what Islam was doing

I disagree. I think hunting a submission is far more significant than throwing punches behind your head with zero oomph or hope for damage. It’s basically needless flailing. There’s a reason why fighters taking those shots don’t really address them a lot of the time.


He could land a million of them and nothing would happen. If Islam got the sub he actively hunted he’d get the win. It wasn’t lay and pray

 

[Neutrinos]

I disagree

I disagree. I think hunting a submission is far more significant than throwing punches behind your head with zero oomph or hope for damage. It’s basically needless flailing.

Go watch it again, some of those punches had some oomph on them, and landed clean

 

[CDJ]

Go watch it again, some of those punches had some oomph on them, and landed clean

Lol you’re trying to give a guy a round based off punches he threw behind his head, it’s honestly an incredible take. You may be the only person in the world who thinks round 4 was Volk’s.

 

[16Skippy]

Would you rather have your opponent unsuccessfully "trying for a choke", or repeatedly punching you in the face?

Maintaining a dominant position shouldn't count for much when you're getting beat up while holding it

I would rather take those arm punches from that position if it meant I’m holding a body triangle and working on a choke, 10/10 times. I think Volk hyping the crowd made it seem like he was doing more than he did there.

 

[pistolpete11]

Well said, agreed with everything here.

Only thing I'll add is I'm good with Islam/Poirer next if Oliveira/Dariush stays booked. At least Poirer is coming off a big win and he has the resume. Plus everyone else is booked.

I wouldn't argue against Poirier, but 1 win since getting finished in his last title fight (granted against a different champ) isn't really deserving on its own merit IMO. It's just because there's nobody else available and/or more deserving.

 

[VanillaCoke]

I could see 48 - 47 either way and be fine with it, 49-46 isnt a great look.


Definitely down for a rematch.

 

[Neutrinos]

I would rather take those arm punches from that position if it meant I’m holding a body triangle and working on a choke, 10/10 times. I think Volk hyping the crowd made it seem like he was doing more than he did there.

But while you're unsuccessfully "working on a choke" that results in zero damage to your opponent, you've been punched in the face 20 - 30 times. And maybe those 20 - 30 didn't do significant damage, they did more than you accomplished with your failed submission attempt

 

[Neutrinos]

Lol you’re trying to give a guy a round based off punches he threw behind his head, it’s honestly an incredible take. You may be the only person in the world who thinks round 4 was Volk’s.

It's honestly incredible how you seemingly skipped over or dismissed entirely the first line of my post...

'I'd have to re-watch the 4th rd again to score it accurately'

 

[CDJ]

It's honestly incredible how you seemingly skipped over or dismissed entirely the first line of my post...

'I'd have to re-watch the 4th rd again to score it accurately'

You’re awarding damage for punches thrown behind a guys head, that does not change whether you rewatch it or not. You’re still even arguing it in the post above this quoted one lol

I can tell you 10/10 a fighter would rather be in Islam’s position than Volk’s position there. It’s not even f***ing close. Who was attempting to finish the fight? Certainly wasn’t Volk in that position

 

[m9]

I think they should have been stood up in Round 4. I know MMA has this tradition of letting guys ride out dominant positions forever but if you're not doing anything then you need to be stood up like any other position.

 

[Neutrinos]

You’re awarding damage for punches thrown behind a guys head, that does not change whether you rewatch it or not. You’re still even arguing it in the post above this quoted one lol

I can tell you 10/10 a fighter would rather be in Islam’s position than Volk’s position there. It’s not even f***ing close. Who was attempting to finish the fight? Certainly wasn’t Volk in that position

I'm not arguing which position a fighter would rather be in, I'm pointing out that Volk did more offensively from their respective positions

 

[CDJ]

I'm not arguing which position a fighter would rather be in, I'm pointing out that Volk did more offensively from their respective positions

I don’t consider that real offense- there’s zero chance of doing any real damage and/or finishing the fight and hunting a submission from back control is absolutely more offensive. It’s not even close. Just because he didn’t get a sub doesn’t mean Volk wasn’t playing defense pretty much the entire round when he wasn’t flailing around and accomplishing nothing. If he was throwing elbows from guard that’s one thing- this was not that. Putting Volk on the defensive for most of the round looking for that choke is absolutely “effective grappling”, which is equal to “effective striking” in the criteria.

I think they should have been stood up in Round 4. I know MMA has this tradition of letting guys ride out dominant positions forever but if you're not doing anything then you need to be stood up like any other position.

Islam was more or less hand-fighting the entire time, I’d agree if it was lay and pray but it wasn’t.

 

[m9]

Islam was more or less hand-fighting the entire time, I’d agree if it was lay and pray but it wasn’t.

That's not really enough for me. I don't think he did much of all from that position. Tell him to do more or stand them up.

I see both sides of your guys argument. Very minor damage vs control/subs is pretty tough to judge. Those are the rounds that should be 10-10 and let the other rounds decide it. I know that isn't the rules, but IMO it should be

 

[Neutrinos]

I don’t consider that real offense- there’s zero chance of doing any real damage and/or finishing the fight and hunting a submission from back control is absolutely more offensive. It’s not even close. Just because he didn’t get a sub doesn’t mean Volk wasn’t playing defense pretty much the entire round when he wasn’t flailing around and accomplishing nothing. If he was throwing elbows from guard that’s one thing- this was not that. Putting Volk on the defensive for most of the round looking for that choke is absolutely “effective grappling”, which is equal to “effective striking” in the criteria.


Islam was more or less hand-fighting the entire time, I’d agree if it was lay and pray but it wasn’t.

We can just agree to disagree at this point

 

[Neutrinos]

Lol you’re trying to give a guy a round based off punches he threw behind his head, it’s honestly an incredible take. You may be the only person in the world who thinks round 4 was Volk’s.

 

[CDJ]

That guy did never lose a round, he’d know

 

[I am not exposed]

Well, that means Islam definitely won then!

 

[I am not exposed]

That's not really enough for me. I don't think he did much of all from that position. Tell him to do more or stand them up.

I see both sides of your guys argument. Very minor damage vs control/subs is pretty tough to judge. Those are the rounds that should be 10-10 and let the other rounds decide it. I know that isn't the rules, but IMO it should be

Yeah same. I even said during round 4 that Volk is doing a lot more. Islam wasn't doing much at all. He didn't seem to be trying that hard for the choke. Should have ideally been stood up. But I knew even though Volk was at least hitting Islam, that they would give the round to Islam. Even though he did barley anything with it.

 

[m9]

I trust the HFBoards mma board to judge fights 1000x more than the two most popular mma analysts, which is pretty wild

 

[ViD]

I think part of the reason Islam was more faded in the fifth was the fact he had a tougher weight cut and 12 hours less for recovery than normal

 

[MMC]