GDT: UFC 269: Oliveira vs. Poirier

[pistolpete11]

Nunes's cardio issues are way overblown. She went 5 rounds with Spencer and GDR and outside of R2 against GDR, dominated from start to finish, including the 5th round. She finished Pennington in the 5th. She went 5 with Valentina. Even if you think she lost to Valentina, she still had enough in the tank in the 5th to get a takedown and control her for half the round. I'm not saying she has the best cardio, but it's more than good enough.

If she gassed in less than 2 rounds against Pena, then she wasn't training. Mostly though, I think she was just getting beat up and then panicked.

 

[m9]

Nunes's cardio issues are way overblown. She went 5 rounds with Spencer and GDR and outside of R2 against GDR, dominated from start to finish, including the 5th round. She finished Pennington in the 5th. She went 5 with Valentina. Even if you think she beat Valentina, she still had enough in the tank in the 5th to get a takedown and control her for half the round. I'm not saying she has the best cardio, but it's more than good enough.

If she gassed in less than 2 rounds against Pena, then she wasn't training. Mostly though, I think she was just getting beat up and then panicked.

I think it was just all a sign of someone who didn't take this fight seriously - the brawling, the gassing out, and the quick tap. She just had nothing.

And hey, if fans/media are going to label GSP as someone who was weak mentally in his career than I think we need to look at Nunes here as well. I didn't like when she pulled out of the main event vs Shevchenko the day of the fight for suspicious reasons and I certainly don't like her here mailing in a championship fight.

 

[pistolpete11]

I think it was just all a sign of someone who didn't take this fight seriously - the brawling, the gassing out, and the quick tap. She just had nothing.

And hey, if fans/media are going to label GSP as someone who was weak mentally in his career than I think we need to look at Nunes here as well. I didn't like when she pulled out of the main event vs Shevchenko the day of the fight for suspicious reasons and I certainly don't like her here mailing in a championship fight.

I don't dispute any of that. I'm saying that if she did gas out it is because she didn't take the fight seriously and not some long standing cardio issues. Even if she wasn't in proper shape, though, I don't think it's as simple as she gassed out. She was getting beat up. She took more significant strikes in R2 alone vs. Pena than she has in any entire fight of her career.

 

[chicagoskycam]

I don't dispute any of that. I'm saying that if she did gas out it is because she didn't take the fight seriously and not some long standing cardio issues. Even if she wasn't in proper shape, though, I don't think it's as simple as she gassed out. She was getting beat up. She took more significant strikes in R2 alone vs. Pena than she has in any entire fight of her career.

She does have a history of gassing out though, I just think it hasn't been exposed as much because she's an early finisher. I'll give her credit for the 5 round Shevchenko fight, she seemed ready there but in the 3 rounder, she was clearly gassed and losing in the 3rd. That jab was just popping her over and over again in this fight and it stopped her a bit from throwing. I honestly need to watch it again but saw the ending on IG, she tapped and that choke was not even in yet IMO.

 

[pistolpete11]

She does have a history of gassing out though, I just think it hasn't been exposed as much because she's an early finisher. I'll give her credit for the 5 round Shevchenko fight, she seemed ready there but in the 3 rounder, she was clearly gassed and losing in the 3rd. That jab was just popping her over and over again in this fight and it stopped her a bit from throwing. I honestly need to watch it again but saw the ending on IG, she tapped and that choke was not even in yet IMO.

Her first fight with Valentina was nearly 6 years ago and she's gone into the 5th round 4 times since then. I think we can let that one go.

 

[pistolpete11]

BTW @m9 , not to bring hockey talk to the MMA thread of a hockey message board, but what do you think of the Nucks hiring Jim Rutherford?

As a Penguin fan, I will forever be grateful to him for bringing 2 more Cups to the city, but....just hope he doesn't stick around too long.

 

[m9]

It's also fairly common to see a fighter have good cardio when they are winning and controlling a fight and bad cardio when they are losing the fight. There's obviously lots of reasons for that, but with Nunes being so dominant in the past it's hard for me to really compare her cardio in this fight to some of her other recent ones.

 

[m9]

BTW @m9 , not to bring hockey talk to the MMA thread of a hockey message board, but what do you think of the Nucks hiring Jim Rutherford?

As a Penguin fan, I will forever be grateful to him for bringing 2 more Cups to the city, but....just hope he doesn't stick around too long.

A couple of years ago in the team forum, I did a few posts about the worst GM's in the league and it actually included both Benning and Rutherford. I thought Rutherford kind of did an awful job in Carolina for most of his late tenure and while he had some success in Pittsburgh it seems like there were some questionable deals along the way. A good tell for me in the NHL is when you see the bad GMs trading the same player in between their teams (Tanner Pearson, Gudbranson, etc) while nobody else seems to want them and guys like Rutherford/Benning/Dorion/Chiarelli/Treliving/Bob Murray had a few guys that checked that box for me.

But the thing is, the Canucks organization sorely lacked a guy who would be a legit President as it seems liked the owner was creeping into that role a bit too much. So, I'm very happy with Rutherford as the POHO. His communication and honesty at the press conference yesterday was so refreshing.

I would not have been happy with him as GM. I think he's kind of aged out of the job as with the salary cap it's a different job than it was 20-25 years ago.

I'm actually a Steelers fan even though I'm not from Pittsburgh, but I feel like we're seeing it with Kevin Colbert as well. Is he still well-regarded in the city or are people getting frustrated?

 

[Jugitsu]

I don't see anyone here talking about these guys in a title fight. Jorge backed out of this event and had a fight set on this card 170. Connor has two straight losses to Dustin at 155. My guess is Dustin get Chandler next. Nate is not getting a title shot anywhere but can still put on a good performance.

I admit I was reaching a bit when I mentioned the title fight possibility. But it still irks me that these guys are probably going to get a main card spot at an event and a high profile fight when they don’t deserve one.

 

[pistolpete11]

A couple of years ago in the team forum, I did a few posts about the worst GM's in the league and it actually included both Benning and Rutherford. I thought Rutherford kind of did an awful job in Carolina for most of his late tenure and while he had some success in Pittsburgh it seems like there were some questionable deals along the way. A good tell for me in the NHL is when you see the bad GMs trading the same player in between their teams (Tanner Pearson, Gudbranson, etc) while nobody else seems to want them and guys like Rutherford/Benning/Dorion/Chiarelli/Treliving/Bob Murray had a few guys that checked that box for me.

But the thing is, the Canucks organization sorely lacked a guy who would be a legit President as it seems liked the owner was creeping into that role a bit too much. So, I'm very happy with Rutherford as the POHO. His communication and honesty at the press conference yesterday was so refreshing.

I would not have been happy with him as GM. I think he's kind of aged out of the job as with the salary cap it's a different job than it was 20-25 years ago.

I'm actually a Steelers fan even though I'm not from Pittsburgh, but I feel like we're seeing it with Kevin Colbert as well. Is he still well-regarded in the city or are people getting frustrated?

JR threw a bunch of shit at the wall pretty much his whole time in Pittsburgh. Some of it was good, some of it was bad. It just so happened that enough shit stuck for 2 years. After that, it was kind of down hill. My favorite "Should this guy really be a NHL GM?" moment was when he traded Carl Hagelin in 2018 to "shake things up" and then when that didn't work, he tried to trade for Hagelin back, but couldn't because they had retained salary on him already . My least favorite was signing Jack Johnson to a 5 year deal for decent money. Still paying for that one.

As President he might be alright. Kind of like the Pens hiring Burke. Wouldn't want him as GM, but as President, OK.

I think Tomlin is starting to attract the ire of Steeler fans more so than Colbert. They have some holes personnel-wise, especially on the O-line with Pouncey and DeCastro retiring at the same time and D-line with Tuitt and Alualu both being hurt, but they haven't won a playoff game in 5 years and have given up 93 points combined in their last 2 playoff games both at home to teams led by Blake Bortles and Baker Mayfield. You might be able to nitpick the roster here and there those years, but that is completely inexcusable for the Steelers. Then it comes out Tomlin was calling the defense plays in those games. Then this year they have multiple players saying they need to practice better. Then the Claypool stuff, including Ben saying it's the coach's job to deal with players issues. So yeah, I think Tomlin's seat is starting to warm up in the fan/media's eyes. Doubt the Rooney's will ever fire him, though. Colbert's like 65 or something, though, so I could see him retiring soon anyway.

 

[m9]

I admit I was reaching a bit when I mentioned the title fight possibility. But it still irks me that these guys are probably going to get a main card spot at an event and a high profile fight when they don’t deserve one.

But they do deserve it though. They are legit, high-end MMA fighters and people want to see them fight and that's why they're headlining.

 

[m9]

JR threw a bunch of shit at the wall pretty much his whole time in Pittsburgh. Some of it was good, some of it was bad. It just so happened that enough shit stuck for 2 years. After that, it was kind of down hill. My favorite "Should this guy really be a NHL GM?" moment was when he traded Carl Hagelin in 2018 to "shake things up" and then when that didn't work, he tried to trade for Hagelin back, but couldn't because they had retained salary on him already . My least favorite was signing Jack Johnson to a 5 year deal for decent money. Still paying for that one.

As President he might be alright. Kind of like the Pens hiring Burke. Wouldn't want him as GM, but as President, OK.

I think Tomlin is starting to attract the ire of Steeler fans more so than Colbert. They have some holes personnel-wise, especially on the O-line with Pouncey and DeCastro retiring at the same time and D-line with Tuitt and Alualu both being hurt, but they haven't won a playoff game in 5 years and have given up 93 points combined in their last 2 playoff games both at home to teams led by Blake Bortles and Baker Mayfield. You might be able to nitpick the roster here and there those years, but that is completely inexcusable for the Steelers. Then it comes out Tomlin was calling the defense plays in those games. Then this year they have multiple players saying they need to practice better. Then the Claypool stuff, including Ben saying it's the coach's job to deal with players issues. So yeah, I think Tomlin's seat is starting to warm up in the fan/media's eyes. Doubt the Rooney's will ever fire him, though. Colbert's like 65 or something, though, so I could see him retiring soon anyway.

Good to know on JR & agreed on the Burke comparison.

From the outside, it sure seems like Tomlin takes the most heat and he definitely deserves his share.
My issue is more with the overall direction of the team and that's on Colbert. I get that they're trying to push in Ben's final years, but bad moves are still bad moves. Trading up to draft an ILB in the top ten is inexcusable to me even he's good.. and he's not good. Then there's drafting an RB in the 1st round at a time when the team is a disaster at multiple other positions, including an awful OL which has completely neutered that RB. Minkah has been great but that was an extremely risky trade - but hey, it worked. There's other stuff like burning draft picks on backup QBs or trading them for non-contributing players. The team is kind of in an awful spot going forward with no QB, a bad OL, and gaping holes all over the defense.

 

[Jugitsu]

But they do deserve it though. They are legit, high-end MMA fighters and people want to see them fight and that's why they're headlining.

How is Nate Diaz and his 20-13 record a legit high-end fighter? Masvidal is at least ranked but my guess is not for long. Neither is very active and neither is getting any younger. They are both cash cows due to their personalities at the moment and they are stealing the spotlight from more deserving fighters. As a Finn I definitely gravitate towards a guy like Nate personality wise. The dude legitimately doesn’t seem to give a shit about anything other than the fighting part of MMA. But he’s done as a fighter at top level. Jorge maybe has some fight left in him.

 

[m9]

How is Nate Diaz and his 20-13 record a legit high-end fighter? Masvidal is at least ranked but my guess is not for long. Neither is very active and neither is getting any younger. They are both cash cows due to their personalities at the moment and they are stealing the spotlight from more deserving fighters. As a Finn I definitely gravitate towards a guy like Nate personality wise. The dude legitimately doesn’t seem to give a shit about anything other than the fighting part of MMA. But he’s done as a fighter at top level. Jorge maybe has some fight left in him.

Well, high-end is a bit subjective. I just mean this isn't CM Punk headlining PPVs, Nate's a legit fighter. As long as we aren't in circus territory - and we're not yet with Nate & Masvidal - then I'm fine with it.

Plus, you toss some lesser known guys on that undercard and give them a nice bump on a big PPV.

 

[chicagoskycam]

How is Nate Diaz and his 20-13 record a legit high-end fighter? Masvidal is at least ranked but my guess is not for long. Neither is very active and neither is getting any younger. They are both cash cows due to their personalities at the moment and they are stealing the spotlight from more deserving fighters. As a Finn I definitely gravitate towards a guy like Nate personality wise. The dude legitimately doesn’t seem to give a shit about anything other than the fighting part of MMA. But he’s done as a fighter at top level. Jorge maybe has some fight left in him.

Masvidal lost his last two fights to Usman and some consider him the best pound for pound. Sure, he has to get back on a winning track but he's no bum out there with a great personality. . Nate a bit of a different story. He's all heart and has only been taking fights lately where he is the underdog. He probably will never be champ but he's a great gatekeeper and knows how to put on a show. Ultimately the "Cash Cows" are making everyone more money, especially those who get to fight them.

 

[pistolpete11]

Good to know on JR & agreed on the Burke comparison.

From the outside, it sure seems like Tomlin takes the most heat and he definitely deserves his share.
My issue is more with the overall direction of the team and that's on Colbert. I get that they're trying to push in Ben's final years, but bad moves are still bad moves. Trading up to draft an ILB in the top ten is inexcusable to me even he's good.. and he's not good. Then there's drafting an RB in the 1st round at a time when the team is a disaster at multiple other positions, including an awful OL which has completely neutered that RB. Minkah has been great but that was an extremely risky trade - but hey, it worked. There's other stuff like burning draft picks on backup QBs or trading them for non-contributing players. The team is kind of in an awful spot going forward with no QB, a bad OL, and gaping holes all over the defense.

Bush was a big miss. I think they panicked because of Shazier's unfortunate injury and ILB was a glaring hole at the time. Well...still is, unfortunately. But if Bush was as good as Shazier was, I would have had no problem with moving up to get him. The OLB usually get all the praise in the Steeler's defense, but the D-line and ILB are the back bone of the defense. It's just that Bush sucks. Also, I don't know if this is just one of those fan rumors or not, but apparently Tomlin is tight with Bush's godfather and Tomlin pushed to move up and take Bush. In addition to it being a position of need. Huge grain of salt obviously.

Fitzpatrick was a proven NFL stud with years of control left at a position of need. The Steelers haven't had great success drafting DB's under Tomlin, which is ironic since the secondary was his position coach job before coming to the Steelers, so I think that was a great trade.

I think there are certainly things to critique Colbert on, but in the end, their roster has been way too talented over the last 10 years to only have 3 playoff wins. 1 of which was a gift from the undisciplined Bungles. Not to mention the terrible, embarrassing playoff losses like the Jaguars, Browns, and Tim Tebow.

 

[pistolpete11]

Masvidal lost his last two fights to Usman and some consider him the best pound for pound. Sure, he has to get back on a winning track but he's no bum out there with a great personality. . Nate a bit of a different story. He's all heart and has only been taking fights lately where he is the underdog. He probably will never be champ but he's a great gatekeeper and knows how to put on a show. Ultimately the "Cash Cows" are making everyone more money, especially those who get to fight them.

I feel like Masvidal went from being underrated his whole career, to being overrated for his Till-Askren-Nate run, to now being underrated again because he lost to Usman a couple of times.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

I feel like Masvidal went from being underrated his whole career, to being overrated for his Till-Askren-Nate run, to now being underrated again because he lost to Usman a couple of times.

Probably a fair statement, that’s why I was interested in seeing the Edwards fight. I think there’s little doubt if the fight goes to the scorecard that Edwards would win, but there’s a legitimate shot that Masvidal could put his lights out. Nate nearly did and he has no where near the power.

Curious to see what they line up for Masvidal next, he’s definitely a fun fighter to watch.

 

[pistolpete11]

Probably a fair statement, that’s why I was interested in seeing the Edwards fight. I think there’s little doubt if the fight goes to the scorecard that Edwards would win, but there’s a legitimate shot that Masvidal could put his lights out. Nate nearly did and he has no where near the power.

Curious to see what they line up for Masvidal next, he’s definitely a fun fighter to watch.

The rumor is Masvidal dropped out of the Edwards fight to fight Colby instead. Possibly to be the coaches for TUF. If he beat Colby, that would be huge. If he loses to Colby, people will try to bury him even more, but as much as I dislike Colby, there's no shame in losing to him either.

 

[McGuires Corndog]

The rumor is Masvidal dropped out of the Edwards fight to fight Colby instead. Possibly to be the coaches for TUF. If he beat Colby, that would be huge. If he loses to Colby, people will try to bury him even more, but as much as I dislike Colby, there's no shame in losing to him either.

I heard that too, the entertainment factor on that would be huge.

As much as I hate the act, I love Colby the fighter. He’s an animal, he’s fought the best P4P guy twice and pushed him to the brink both times. Doesn’t get nearly the respect he should.

 

[SuperScript29]

Just watched the Nunes-Pena fight again, it seems like Nunes had zero backup plan. Her style has been working for so long that she didn't expect someone to take her punches and walk her down like this. She's a technical striker with power, her style works well against fighters who can't take her punches or other technical strikers that are not as good. Pena seems to have a good chin, heart, and is a brawler with a decent ground game. Nunes should have not engaged in the brawling session, instead she should have taken her time and kept the distance. I know it's easier said than done given that Juliana was walking toward her none stop, but this goes back to the lack of backup plan, which made her panic and engage further in the brawl.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I heard that too, the entertainment factor on that would be huge.

As much as I hate the act, I love Colby the fighter. He’s an animal, he’s fought the best P4P guy twice and pushed him to the brink both times. Doesn’t get nearly the respect he should.

I think Colby is the clear second best 170 in the world.

usman is just that good