GDT: UFC 226: Miocic vs. Cormier

[BGDDYKWL]

Cain won't get an immediate title shot and with no talk of his return I can't see it being anytime soon. DC will be retired long before Cain is fighting for the belt.

DC is taking a BIG risk fighting at 205 before the Lesnar fight. Just not worth it IMO.

 

[Peter Griffin]

DC is taking a BIG risk fighting at 205 before the Lesnar fight. Just not worth it IMO.

How so? Lesnar is the big draw in that fight, even DC will tell you that. DC losing at LHW, which unless he's fighting Jon Jones isn't a huge probability, doesn't affect his belt at HW and likely doesn't have much of an affect at all on a fight against Lesnar. The guy just knocked out arguably the best HW the UFC has ever had in one round. That fight against Lesnar is going to sell regardless of what happens with him at LHW. Ideally he'd fight Brock first and then finish his career with the trilogy fight against Jones at LHW, but I don't think that's in the cards.

As for who Cain should fight, Stipe seems like the perfect opponent to me.

 

[m9]

I can definitely see this being the result of a concussion, combined with the weight cutting. But wasn't his fight for Khabib called off by NYSAC because they claimed he had too much weight to cut anyway? Can't remember...

Agreed about Ortega, no clue why he was getting so much flak. Hope we see him vs Stephens (should he beat Aldo) for an interim title, as I can't see Holloway coming back in 2018.

I've read mixed reports about the 223 cancellation. They wouldn't let him cut any more weight, but I can't find the report why they stopped him. Holloway's camp said the weight cut was going great for 223, but again that's exactly what I would expect them to say.

 

[pistolpete11]

How so? Lesnar is the big draw in that fight, even DC will tell you that. DC losing at LHW, which unless he's fighting Jon Jones isn't a huge probability, doesn't affect his belt at HW and likely doesn't have much of an affect at all on a fight against Lesnar. The guy just knocked out arguably the best HW the UFC has ever had in one round. That fight against Lesnar is going to sell regardless of what happens with him at LHW. Ideally he'd fight Brock first and then finish his career with the trilogy fight against Jones at LHW, but I don't think that's in the cards.

As for who Cain should fight, Stipe seems like the perfect opponent to me.

I'd love to hear who DC wants to fight at 205. If he's sticking to his March retirement, wants to defend both belts, and is only interested in 'money' fights, who fits that at 205? Yeah, a lot of die hards would love to see Gus, but I don't see that fight drawing. Same with Romero. The only guy that does is Jones if he gets let off the hook by USADA.

Stipe-Cain is the perfect fight for both of those guys.

 

[Avs_19]

Ngannou's statement on the fight:

I am not proud of my last performance. I have carried my fear from the last fight to this one. I completely understand the frustration & anger that it has caused to my fans, coaches, teammates, family and friends and I am truly sorry for that. I won’t let everyone down again. All I can do now is prove myself and make you proud again. #UFC226

Francis Ngannou says it was fear, rather than his ego, that caused awful UFC 226 performance

That doesn't sound good. I think most people expected him to learn from his last fight and improve but he went completely in the other direction. Hopefully he can get past the mental part of it and work his way back. He's still pretty young for a HW and has a lot of potential if he figures things out.

 

[m9]

It seemed like Ngannou was waiting for a takedown that never happened and wanted to protect himself after the Miocic fight. Hopefully he fights again very soon since he didn't take any damage.

 

[BGDDYKWL]

How so? Lesnar is the big draw in that fight, even DC will tell you that. DC losing at LHW, which unless he's fighting Jon Jones isn't a huge probability, doesn't affect his belt at HW and likely doesn't have much of an affect at all on a fight against Lesnar. The guy just knocked out arguably the best HW the UFC has ever had in one round. That fight against Lesnar is going to sell regardless of what happens with him at LHW. Ideally he'd fight Brock first and then finish his career with the trilogy fight against Jones at LHW, but I don't think that's in the cards.

As for who Cain should fight, Stipe seems like the perfect opponent to me.

Lesnar's the draw, but you're still selling it as the beast versus a two division champ and one of the GOATs. If DC loses at 205 it hurts his HW championship cache big time. If the smaller guy loses at the bigger weight class it's not nearly as big of a deal. I don't care nearly as much about McGregor at 155 if he's coming off a loss at 145.

 

[m9]

I'll be in Vegas for this one. Can't wait!

Did you end up going to the fights? If so how was it live?

 

[LSCII]

Watch Cain Velasquez's Live Reaction to Daniel Cormier KOing Stipe Miocic (Video) | MMAWeekly.com

Pretty cool video of Cain back in the locker room watching DC KO Stipe...

 

[Peter Griffin]

Did you end up going to the fights? If so how was it live?

I did. The crowd reaction during the main event was unbelievable, I don't think anyone expected that KO from DC as the crowd seemed mainly pro-Stipe. And then when DC called up Lesnar the crowd went nuts as most in attendance had no idea Lesnar was even at the arena. I re-watched the fights on tv the other day and I gotta say the Ngannou/Lewis fight didn't seem nearly as bad on tv as it did live if that is possible. Watching that fight live was downright painful and the crowd was really letting them have it. Not sure if it was mentioned on the broadcast but at one point the entire crowd was doing the wave, never thought I'd see that at a UFC event.

Also caught the TUF card at the Pearl. Never been there before and it's an interesting set-up they have. Got cheap seats and sat up top, but the place is so small you felt like you were right on top of the octagon.

 

[m9]

I did. The crowd reaction during the main event was unbelievable, I don't think anyone expected that KO from DC as the crowd seemed mainly pro-Stipe. And then when DC called up Lesnar the crowd went nuts as most in attendance had no idea Lesnar was even at the arena. I re-watched the fights on tv the other day and I gotta say the Ngannou/Lewis fight didn't seem nearly as bad on tv as it did live if that is possible. Watching that fight live was downright painful and the crowd was really letting them have it. Not sure if it was mentioned on the broadcast but at one point the entire crowd was doing the wave, never thought I'd see that at a UFC event.

Also caught the TUF card at the Pearl. Never been there before and it's an interesting set-up they have. Got cheap seats and sat up top, but the place is so small you felt like you were right on top of the octagon.

Nice, sounds like a fun weekend. First time seeing fights in Vegas?

I haven't seen anything at the Pearl, but those smaller venues are ideal for UFC events. How was T-Mobile for watching live? I liked MGM & Mandalay because they were fairly small, so I'm hoping T-Mobile isn't a big downgrade.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Nice, sounds like a fun weekend. First time seeing fights in Vegas?

No it's my fourth time seeing fights in Vegas. Went to 116(Lesnar/Carwin), 126(Silva/Belfort) and 191(Mighty Mouse/Dodson 2, booked the flights/hotel before seeing what the card would be, doh!) before this one.

I haven't seen anything at the Pearl, but those smaller venues are ideal for UFC events. How was T-Mobile for watching live? I liked MGM & Mandalay because they were fairly small, so I'm hoping T-Mobile isn't a big downgrade.

T-Mobile is more like the typical hockey arena type set-up, much prefer MGM over it, but it wasn't bad. We actually lucked out as we sat in the wrong seats for the entire event. Purchased upper bowl seats in section 119 but we sat in lowers in section 19 and nobody ever said anything to us.

 

[MD thaivuN]

Is Ngannou still training at the UFC Performance Institute? Seems to stupid to move to the US but not get into a good camp.

 

[Avs_19]

Is Ngannou still training at the UFC Performance Institute? Seems to stupid to move to the US but not get into a good camp.

I believe he's with John Wood at Syndicate MMA now.

 

[67 others]

lol, Ortega making noise about not getting his show money despite turning down all the fill in fight offers.
Anyone with common sense knows that if you opt to wait for a title shot instead of fighting, it comes at the expense of your purse.

If UFC pays fighters when their opponent pulls out, no fighter will ever accept a replacement fight again.

 

[m9]

The pay situation is weird.

I think Ortega should get paid his show money in situations like this, but he also needs to negotiate that himself.

 

[67 others]

The pay situation is weird.

I think Ortega should get paid his show money in situations like this, but he also needs to negotiate that himself.

I don't have much sympathy for him. He was offered an interim title fight against a lesser opponent than Holloway and he turned it down. A true fighter would have just said "Ill fight anybody because I plan on being the champ and taking on all comers"

Your job is to fight.

Ortega himself was given a gift last minute replacement status to become number 1 contender and he jumped at that opportunity and won. Now he does not want to return that gift. That will get you on Dana's bad side in a big hurry. Especially when you hold none of the cards. Have fun negotiating your next 3 fight contract without draw power yet. If the slightest thing happens now, injury, etc, Dana is going to say "Welp, you are giving up your shot then. Can't rely on you"

If UFC pays fighters when their opponent pulls out, no fighter will ever accept a replacement fight again.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Love it. Wouldn't surprise me if they want him to get a win at 205 before he gets the shot, but I think he should get there soon enough.

This seems to be the stance DC is taking on the possibility of fighting Romero.

 

[m9]

I don't have much sympathy for him. He was offered an interim title fight against a lesser opponent than Holloway and he turned it down. A true fighter would have just said "Ill fight anybody because I plan on being the champ and taking on all comers"

Your job is to fight.

Ortega himself was given a gift last minute replacement status to become number 1 contender and he jumped at that opportunity and won. Now he does not want to return that gift. That will get you on Dana's bad side in a big hurry. Especially when you hold none of the cards. Have fun negotiating your next 3 fight contract without draw power yet. If the slightest thing happens now, injury, etc, Dana is going to say "Welp, you are giving up your shot then. Can't rely on you"

If UFC pays fighters when their opponent pulls out, no fighter will ever accept a replacement fight again.

As someone who doesn't think Holloway will fight at 145lbs again, it would have been a good opportunity for Ortega to grab that 145lb interim belt with the plan being it will eventually be turned into the real belt.

But yeah, I can see both sides of it. Hopefully he gets back in there soon.

 

[m9]

This seems to be the stance DC is taking on the possibility of fighting Romero.

Which makes total sense to me.

I don't see why DC goes back to 205, and Romero is the only fight there I want to see. He's cleared out the division already. Have the Gus/Oezdemir winner fight the winner of a Romero/whoever fight and name a new champ next year so that they are ready if Jones is back.

I'd have DC fight Blaydes - I would be intrigued by it and I think Blaydes is somewhat deserving. Mix and match the rest of the top HW's (Volkov v Miocic, JDS/Ivanov winner v Lewis, Ngannou v JDS/Ivanov loser) and go from there.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Which makes total sense to me.

I don't see why DC goes back to 205, and Romero is the only fight there I want to see. He's cleared out the division already. Have the Gus/Oezdemir winner fight the winner of a Romero/whoever fight and name a new champ next year so that they are ready if Jones is back.

DC has said he doesn't want to have the belt taken from him so to speak, he'd like to defend it once more and then retire as long as there's a rightful opponent. I think if DC doesn't have a fight at 205 in place before the end of the year he runs the risk of having the belt stripped from him and I don't think he wants to retire like that.

In the end, I think DC/Gus 2 happens before the end of the year. Their first fight was a close split decision and Gustafsson is the rightful #1 contender, especially if he can finish Oezdemir next month.

I'd have DC fight Blaydes - I would be intrigued by it and I think Blaydes is somewhat deserving. Mix and match the rest of the top HW's (Volkov v Miocic, JDS/Ivanov winner v Lewis, Ngannou v JDS/Ivanov loser) and go from there.

I think that's too risky a proposition for DC. He could just as easily lose to Blaydes at HW and then the Lesnar fight is completely gone for him, don't see him taking that risk. I think the next fight he takes at HW will either be against Lesnar, Miocic or possibly even Jones. Don't see him taking the risk of fighting anyone else at HW.

Personally, DC/Lesnar and then DC/Jones, both at HW, would make the most sense to me to finish his career, but the timeframe doesn't exactly work and likely requires DC giving up his LHW belt which I don't think he wants to do until he officially retires.

 

[m9]

DC has said he doesn't want to have the belt taken from him so to speak, he'd like to defend it once more and then retire as long as there's a rightful opponent. I think if DC doesn't have a fight at 205 in place before the end of the year he runs the risk of having the belt stripped from him and I don't think he wants to retire like that.

In the end, I think DC/Gus 2 happens before the end of the year. Their first fight was a close split decision and Gustafsson is the rightful #1 contender, especially if he can finish Oezdemir next month.

I think that's too risky a proposition for DC. He could just as easily lose to Blaydes at HW and then the Lesnar fight is completely gone for him, don't see him taking that risk. I think the next fight he takes at HW will either be against Lesnar, Miocic or possibly even Jones. Don't see him taking the risk of fighting anyone else at HW.

Personally, DC/Lesnar and then DC/Jones, both at HW, would make the most sense to me to finish his career, but the timeframe doesn't exactly work and likely requires DC giving up his LHW belt which I don't think he wants to do until he officially retires.

I think if DC goes back to 205 it will be Gus as well. I'm okay with it. Romero is my preferred choice, but I prefer Gus to Shogun as has been suggested.

I also think DC losing to anyone risks the Lesnar fight, whether it's at 205 or HW. A loss at HW is the more direct risk as that might mean they will look to Lesnar vs that new HW champ. A loss at 205 creates even more of a mess and takes a ton of heat away from the Lesnar matchup.

 

[pistolpete11]

I don't have much sympathy for him. He was offered an interim title fight against a lesser opponent than Holloway and he turned it down. A true fighter would have just said "Ill fight anybody because I plan on being the champ and taking on all comers"

Your job is to fight.

Ortega himself was given a gift last minute replacement status to become number 1 contender and he jumped at that opportunity and won. Now he does not want to return that gift. That will get you on Dana's bad side in a big hurry. Especially when you hold none of the cards. Have fun negotiating your next 3 fight contract without draw power yet. If the slightest thing happens now, injury, etc, Dana is going to say "Welp, you are giving up your shot then. Can't rely on you"

If UFC pays fighters when their opponent pulls out, no fighter will ever accept a replacement fight again.

I wouldn't like it, but I'd be OK with it if he turned down an interim title fight. These guys work so hard and put so much on the line. Winning an actual UFC title is a life changing accomplishment, both as a goal and financially. Their careers are so short, too. He could lose to Stephens and then never get another chance to fight for the actual title again. Selfishly, yeah, I wanted UFC 226 to be a better card and I admire the guys that say "f*** it. I'll fight anybody" like Cowboy, Conor, Frankie, etc., but I could understand it from his point of view.

.........BUT the reason he was fighting for the title in the first place is because Frankie took that fight in a very similar situation. Ortega should have passed on the opportunity.

Which makes total sense to me.

I don't see why DC goes back to 205, and Romero is the only fight there I want to see. He's cleared out the division already. Have the Gus/Oezdemir winner fight the winner of a Romero/whoever fight and name a new champ next year so that they are ready if Jones is back.

I'd have DC fight Blaydes - I would be intrigued by it and I think Blaydes is somewhat deserving. Mix and match the rest of the top HW's (Volkov v Miocic, JDS/Ivanov winner v Lewis, Ngannou v JDS/Ivanov loser) and go from there.

There are only 2 fights that make sense for DC, IMO. Jon Jones and Brock. Both of which could be at HW. I think there is still a market for DC-Jones 3 now that he's the 2-division champ and it very well could set him apart in the GOAT conversation if he wins it. The interesting part for me would be if it would be at 205 or HW. From the UFC's point of view, HW would probably be better. That way, you have Brock vs. whoever wins it and it's still a monster PPV. With Brock, the only reason is the $$$.

Blades, Gus, even Romero, etc., those fights do nothing for DC, IMO. They are tough, tough fights, don't further his legacy even if he wins, and aren't big money fights. There's no upside for him. If we are talking about deserving, yeah, Gus at 205 and Blades at HW are the only 2 fights DC should be taking.

I think DC makes an exception on his March retirement date if it is for Jones, though.

 

[BGDDYKWL]

I'm probably in the minority but if there's a Jones/DC 3 I want it to be at HW. At the end of the day the tougher guy is the one who wins regardless of weight. If Jones is better than DC at 205 (which I think we can agree he is), and DC beats him at HW, then DC is ultimately the tougher guy. It'd be more interesting to see that fight at HW than for a third time at 205.

 

[m9]

I'm probably in the minority but if there's a Jones/DC 3 I want it to be at HW. At the end of the day the tougher guy is the one who wins regardless of weight. If Jones is better than DC at 205 (which I think we can agree he is), and DC beats him at HW, then DC is ultimately the tougher guy. It'd be more interesting to see that fight at HW than for a third time at 205.

I agree with your premise, but Jones has two decisive wins over Cormier.

Cormier beating a rusty Jones at HW is a huge win and probably puts him at the top of the all-time rankings for some people, but I think what Jones did in the other fights can't be forgotten.