Player Discussion Tyler Toffoli

[KevSkillz4]

I'd create the thread in Montreal Canadiens forum of Toffoli when he sign with Habs.

I'm Habs fan and i will miss this guy, he is a really good player!

Congrats Flames fans, you got a pretty good hockey player.

I'm happy with the return because Habs are in "rebuild mode"

1st pick is a 1st and Heineman looks a pretty good prospect too.

Good luck guys!!

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[Bounces R Way]

Top Titty Toffoli

Tha Babyface Killa

 

[Turning Mangiapanese]

Dude looks like Mark Jankowski.

 

[Volica]

He's a good player that'll help this team. That said, I'm disappointed this is what Treliving ponied up for.

 

[Rubi]

The price was fair and to be honest, better than I expected. I thought for sure we would have to give up a current roster player (ie Dube or Monahan) or at least an A prospect. I
I'm happy with the trade. The Flames are better today than they were on Sunday.. Toffoli brings a lot to the table. The Flames are now a more dangerous team because of him.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Toffoli bolsters the top 6 but it's still not a top 6 that can challenge for the best in the league. I would've preferred a centre but that's still possible, maybe, and what's done is done.

 

[Habs13]

Toffoli was a Canucks killer for us last year too, so you also get that. Not a great skater but skilled and has a great shot. Should help the Flames out quite a bit.

 

[JurassicTunga]

 

[Fig]

He's a good player that'll help this team. That said, I'm disappointed this is what Treliving ponied up for.

I agree, but only if this is the only move that Treliving makes and/or it ultimately is revealed that Calgary was NTC sealed a la Kadri.

I do hope that there's another move coming down the pipeline for that 1C or a swiss army middle 6C/RW if that's the only options available to us. Fingers crossed it's a left field OMG 1C acquisition...

The price was fair and to be honest, better than I expected. I thought for sure we would have to give up a current roster player (ie Dube or Monahan) or at least an A prospect. I
I'm happy with the trade. The Flames are better today than they were on Sunday.. Toffoli brings a lot to the table. The Flames are now a more dangerous team because of him.

Dangerous yes, but with an obvious Achilles heel. I agree with many other fans of a more cautiously optimistic POV even with what we are accomplishing so far vs celebrating we are on track for consistent runs after a bit of fine tuning.

Toffoli bolsters the top 6 but it's still not a top 6 that can challenge for the best in the league. I would've preferred a centre but that's still possible, maybe, and what's done is done.

I think we can acquire a middle 6 C/RW that can help to make our top 9 above average. But I honestly agree with many of you that if we can get that solid 1C with term, I'd feel much better for longer term contention vs a Cinderella run.

Toffoli was a Canucks killer for us last year too, so you also get that. Not a great skater but skilled and has a great shot. Should help the Flames out quite a bit.

Sutter has been complaining the roster is top heavy. If he can find a way to balance out the danger on all lines (along the lines of the unsustainable 2015 Flames), then I think there's a pretty damn good chance. It's also been kinda neat to see Sutter start to bring out certain things in certain players we were not aware were possible, or at least possible with consistency. Zadorov/Monahan (style, not point production)/Gubranson have gotten a few of us to eat varied portions of crow. Gaudreau/Tkachuk have also been playing in ways that we haven't seen in a long time. Markstrom's shut out stats has been WTF.

 

[Fig]

On a different random note, I hope that Toffoli's shooting rubs off on Dube. If I'm Dube, I do my best to emulate Toffoli's shot because that's one of Dube's greatest weaknesses right now.

Dube with an improved powerful and accurate shot would mean he could take those shots from the dots and be effective vs making an inaccurate muffin from the dots and then having to chase it to the other side because the lack of power means the opposition is more likely to reclaim possession vs our dmen.

 

[Rubi]

Toffoli bolsters the top 6 but it's still not a top 6 that can challenge for the best in the league. I would've preferred a centre but that's still possible, maybe, and what's done is done.

I really think the chances of the Flames getting a top 6 center, on or before the TDL, that

a) Would agree to come to Calgary
b) We could afford under our current salary cap
c) Wouldn't cost an arm and a leg cap wise
d) Wouldn't cost one or more of our blue chip prospects
e) Wouldn't cost one of our core pieces
f) Wouldn't walk at the end of the year as a UFA

were somewhere between slim and none.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

I really think the Flames getting a top 6 center that

a) Would agree to come to Calgary
b) We could afford under our current salary cap
c) Wouldn't cost an arm and a leg cap wise
d) Wouldn't cost one or more of our blue chip prospects
e) Wouldn't cost one of our core pieces
f) Wouldn't walk at the end of the year as a UFA

were somewhere between slim and none.

Maybe but it was worth a shot, IMO. The Flames have one guy (Lindholm) who's capable of playing a 1C/2C role right now and he was primarily a winger.

 

[Rubi]

Maybe but it was worth a shot, IMO. The Flames have one guy (Lindholm) who's capable of playing a 1C/2C role right now and he was primarily a winger.

Yes, it was definitely worth a shot and Tre took that shot with Eichel.
Unfortunately Buffalo took so f'ing long to make a decision that Tre had used up most of the cap space necessary to fit Eichel in under the cap and Treliving wouldn't ask Monahan and Lucic to come down with season crippling injuries to make room for him.
In the end, our offer just wasn't as attractive to Buffalo as Vegas's was. Available next tier centers like Hertl or Giroux will never agree to come to Calgary.

Do you know of a top 6 center that would be willing to come to Calgary and the cost wouldn't significantly hurt the team this season and in future seasons, assuming they were affordable under the cap?

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Yes, it was definitely worth a shot and Tre took that shot with Eichel.
Unfortunately Buffalo took so f'ing long to make a decision that Tre had used up most of the cap space necessary to fit Eichel in under the cap and Treliving wouldn't ask Monahan and Lucic to come down with season crippling injuries to make room for him.
In the end, our offer just wasn't as attractive to Buffalo as Vegas's was. Available next tier centers like Hertl or Giroux will never agree to come to Calgary.

Do you know of a top 6 center that would be willing to come to Calgary and the cost wouldn't significantly hurt the team this season and in future seasons, assuming they were affordable under the cap?

Not a whole lot. Forsberg maybe. I can think of at least one player, Kotalik, who didn't want to come to Calgary but agreed to a trade anyway but I'm sure there have been others.

I'd be willing to risk it all for a UFA, including picks and prospects, if it means going all in for the Cup. If Johnny walks, this team is done for anyway.

 

[Rubi]

Not a whole lot. Forsberg maybe. I can think of at least one player, Kotalik, who didn't want to come to Calgary but agreed to a trade anyway but I'm sure there have been others.

I'd be willing to risk it all for a UFA, including picks and prospects, if it means going all in for the Cup. If Johnny walks, this team is done for anyway.

I'm of the opinion that the better the team looks for the future the more chance that Gaudreau will re-sign. Johnny wants to play for a winning, competitive team. That's one of the big selling points the Flames have... especially when compared to possible destination teams such as NJD or Philly. Gaudreau will be 29 this summer. He wants to win now and in the next few years
If Treliving mortgages our future for a possible playoff run, what incentive is there for Johnny to stay... knowing any future Flames team will be worse, because of prospects traded, than the current one?

 

[Fig]

I'm of the opinion that the better the team looks for the future the more chance that Gaudreau will re-sign. Johnny wants to play for a winning, competitive team. That's one of the big selling points the Flames have... especially when compared to possible destination teams such as NJD or Philly. Gaudreau will be 29 this summer. He wants to win now and in the next few years
If Treliving mortgages our future for a possible playoff run, what incentive is there for Johnny to stay... knowing any future Flames team will be worse, because of prospects traded, than the current one?

It depends on how locked in the core is. I'm almost imagining a higher AAV for 5 seasons vs 6-8 might be the end result for Gaudreau and Tkachuk and I've been wondering if that's basically a portion of the delay.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I think this was a great move. Toff said he knows 10 guys on the team, the players wanted him and I think that will go a long way to keep Chucky Johnny. Plus this kid will score goals for us, which is something we really need.

 

[super6646]

The price was fair and to be honest, better than I expected. I thought for sure we would have to give up a current roster player (ie Dube or Monahan) or at least an A prospect. I
I'm happy with the trade. The Flames are better today than they were on Sunday.. Toffoli brings a lot to the table. The Flames are now a more dangerous team because of him.

Wish we could've dumped Monahan. Ruzicka has 1 less even strength point and has played 31 less games than Monahan.

 

[Some Other Flame]

Getting Toffoli 5 weeks before the trade deadline means there's 5 weeks to evaluate whether Monahan has anything left to give

 

[Fig]

I think this was a great move. Toff said he knows 10 guys on the team, the players wanted him and I think that will go a long way to keep Chucky Johnny. Plus this kid will score goals for us, which is something we really need.

I wonder who those 10 are. We assumed around 5 (Monahan, Sutter, Lucic, Lewis and Richardson), but who else? That's a lot of dudes to know. That's almost half the team.

Getting Toffoli 5 weeks before the trade deadline means there's 5 weeks to evaluate whether Monahan has anything left to give

5 weeks to convince a 1C to waive NTC to here by really going on a tear.
5 weeks to boost the trade value/showcase of certain players to other teams if necessary.
5 weeks to figure out if we go full elite organization and play LTIR games or if we have to pay someone to take someone like a plebian.
5 weeks to figure out if our final top 9 hole will be addressed internally (recovering Monahan) or externally.

 

[Rubi]

I wonder who those 10 are. We assumed around 5 (Monahan, Sutter, Lucic, Lewis and Richardson), but who else? That's a lot of dudes to know. That's almost half the team.

Here's 3 more:

Tanev (Canucks)
Markstrom (Canucks)
Muller (Habs)

 

[Ace Rimmer]

 

[Fig]

Hey, that sounds like our group.

 

[Some Other Flame]

Not a bad start

 

[Fig]

Unsure why trade thread locked... so I'll bring this here so I don't lose the post I started... Would love to have it moved to the trade thread if possible tho.

It’d be nitpicking to debate most of this with you, but “not a top 10 group of wingers” is downright false describing the Flames. We are easily top 3 in the league, and maybe the best group out there. Find another team with two wingers well over a point per game, another winger on pace for 40 goals, a 50-70 point guy in toffoli, then depth pieces like Coleman and Lucic. Dube is now our 7th best winger on this roster, and he’d be playing top 6 on a lot of teams.

If I'm wrong on the "not a top 10, I'm wrong". I won't argue. I just gut estimated it and for my estimate, I don't think I was thinking of Toffoli. My point was that we're seemingly a jack of all trades, master of none group which is why we lament as a fan base that we aren't a contender (which basically has a whole bunch of categories in the guaranteed top 3/5 and 10. Our group is perhaps something like a bunch of top 5/10 and 15 kind of calibre group.

You guys are probably right that we are likely in the top 5 for wingers and even possibly in the top 3. I'll take your word for it. I literally have not checked.

You dont think we have a top 10 wing? Im having a hard time naming 3 better off the top of my head

It was a ball park estimate and I may have forgotten to include Toffoli and if it seemed like we might be close to being on par off the top of my head, I ranked us below them to be conservative.

You guys are probably right. My point is that we're seemingly a jack of all trades team on the verge of a Cinderella run or a bunch of early round exits rather than a solid 2-3 more seasons of serious contention. However, a top 6C might help that.