Value of: Tyler Myers

[bumblebeeman]

Wayne Simmonds + Hagg + 2nd pick

For

Myers + Lemieux

Simmonds and Myers are both on expiring contracts. Flyers just signed JVR and Jets need to sign Trouba so both are most likely on the way out.

Hagg replaces Myers and Lemieux replaces Simmonds for depth purposes. Both are young physical players. However, the deal can be done without them included.

Flyers add a 2nd or 3rd based on the value of a dman over forward.

I think this is very fair value, but I don't think the Jets would do it.

 

[Liferleafer]

TOR fans scouting report on Rasanen and JD Greenway? What's their upside in the NHL...Would you do a 1st + ?

Of the 2, i think Ras has a better upside. I would do 1st+either for either Myers or Tanev.

 

[Hunter368]

Wayne Simmonds + Hagg + 2nd pick

For

Myers + Lemieux

Simmonds and Myers are both on expiring contracts. Flyers just signed JVR and Jets need to sign Trouba so both are most likely on the way out.

Hagg replaces Myers and Lemieux replaces Simmonds for depth purposes. Both are young physical players. However, the deal can be done without them included.

Flyers add a 2nd or 3rd based on the value of a dman over forward.

Fair to good value to the Jets......but very poor fit.

 

[Pongs21]

An extended Myers for Kadri?

 

[Hunter368]

I'll spell it out for you because clearly you're a Homer fan and have a lack of understanding yourself and just want to criticize someone else for having an opinion:
The Jets Need:
-Cap space (this year and next for Morrisey, Trouba, Helley, Connor, Laine, Wheeler, Lowry etc.) This year we need if for key RFAs as well as Bonus covereage to not suffer an overage next year when we need it most.
-A defense that defends well (Myers isn't that. He puts up points but he's not good defensively and I'd love to hear your argument that he does!) We've got goal scoring forwards in spades and more coming, we need our D-Core to focus on keeping the puck out of the net and quick puck movement out of the zone
-Assets to keep the train rolling (ELCs will becoming increasingly importent the next 3-5 years to extend the window while all the current guys get PAID)

I could write you a list 10 pages long but those are the specifics relating to my initial opinion. I've done the math many times and played with the salary cap rigorously and though Myers wouldn't be my first choice to be moved (Kulikov, Chiarot, heck even Perrault), but he's the logical choice because A) Poolman can play the 3rd pairing minutes B) He would actually garner assets not COST assets (Kulikov, Chiarot) C) His value is highly inflated due to scoring numbers and counting stats which hide his underlying numbers for some D) RHD are the most coveted item in the NHL right now E) You can't spend 11M on a third pairing defense.

Certainly you're presenting one option and it's a legit strategy......normally I would agree with this strategy. But in our case at this specific time we don't need his cap space this year, we need it next year......so I would be more inclined to move Myers to 2nd pairing LHD and play him with buff, which they have some experience doing already (albeit limited). Take advantage of Buff & Wheeler in their prime now before they start declining. Unclear if Little took a small step back last year or just had one off year.....but the point is the same he isn't getting any younger. Strike while our irons are at their hottest.....worry about maximizing assets trade value later. Use Myers this year as one of our in house trade rentals and let him walk at year end (unless Niku comes up and steals his job, then trade Myers part way thru the year or at TDL).

Huge potential year for Roslovic, could very possibly be a break out year for him at centre or wing......kid looks amazing. Niku could get his big chance this year via injury backfill.....after he dominated the AHL and voted the top D in the entire league. These two kids are our next two impact players we drafted & developed within our organization. Both could potentially find perm roster spots this year, Roslovic without question......Niku this year or the following one without doubt.

 

[firstemperor]

An extended Myers for Kadri?

Too much, we value our C depth more than anything (just look at the last 3 cup winners), and Kadri the player, and contract will be too valuable moving forward.

As for Myers, I think you have to operate under the assumption he's mostly a rental now.....so use Statsny as a comparison, except he probably returns less by a bit (for now).

Needless to say, I do like him a lot and think he's one of the better top 4 fits for our right side.

You also have to consider the Leafs as a fit. Myers past this season means we probably have to let go of Gardiner, so we're going to need to recoup assets on that somehow...or it may not be feasible for our party to begin with. It's going to be complicated to manage through. Same applies to any RHD we acquire with any intention of acquiring with term, a point most Leaf fans often overlook.

Practically speaking though, I think unless it's a RHD with term, Dubas probably goes with the status quo until the TDL.

 

[Pongs21]

Too much, we value our C depth more than anything (just look at the last 3 cup winners), and Kadri the player, and contract will be too valuable moving forward.

As for Myers, I think you have to operate under the assumption he's mostly a rental now.....so use Statsny as a comparison, except he probably returns less by a bit (for now).

Needless to say, I do like him a lot and think he's one of the better top 4 fits for our right side.

You also have to consider the Leafs as a fit. Myers past this season means we probably have to let go of Gardiner, so we're going to need to recoup assets on that somehow...or it may not be feasible for our party to begin with. It's going to be complicated to manage through. Same applies to any RHD we acquire with any intention of acquiring with term, a point most Leaf fans often overlook.

Fair enough, I figured there would be some sort of add going along with Myers. Figured with the cap situation coming for you in the near future it could come down to Nylander or Kadri (If Nylander is moved to C) to move cap around and address another area of need on the right side.

 

[Liferleafer]

An extended Myers for Kadri?

No thank you. Kadri's contract and importance to the team can't be moved.

 

[Pongs21]

No thank you. Kadri's contract and importance to the team can't be moved.

I can appreciate that, cheers

 

[Field of Dreams]

I would be open to a hockey trade between Gardiner and Myers since both have same term and our depth on the left is a strength while winnipeg's depth on the right is a strength.

Rielly - Myers/Zaitsev
Hainsey - Myers/Zaitsev
Dermott - Carrick
Borgman

Morrissey/Gardiner - Trouba/big buff
Morrissey/Gardiner - Trouba/Big buff
Morrow/kulikov - poolman/Chariot

 

[firstemperor]

Fair enough, I figured there would be some sort of add going along with Myers. Figured with the cap situation coming for you in the near future it could come down to Nylander or Kadri (If Nylander is moved to C) to move cap around and address another area of need on the right side.

Yep, fair...I've done an extensive (thought experiment) analysis on the cap, as well have read many other comprehensive projections.... and worst case scenario, only Gardiner leaves......we can slot in everyone else comfortably. That's the worst-case scenario too. We can possibly add more/work around it if we play around with Marleau's 3rd year, or some ulterior circumstances happen- such as the cap rising, inflation with a better TV deal, Seattle expansion, etc.

The Martin trade helped a ton as well

Without getting into returns, acquiring Myers with any intention of resigning him with term would complicate things (probably pushes Gardiner out the door), so it becomes a bit lateral in that sense (not exactly, since LHD is a organizational strength, RHD at the NHL level is a huge weakness).

Huge potential year for Roslovic, could very possibly be a break out year for him at centre or wing......kid looks amazing. Niku could get his big chance this year via injury backfill.....after he dominated the AHL and voted the top D in the entire league. These two kids are our next two impact players we drafted & developed within our organization. Both could potentially find perm roster spots this year, Roslovic without question......Niku this year or the following one without doubt.

Forgot about Niku as I haven't done a preliminary roster analysis on the Jets in sometime....looks like he's trending as well as anyone in the AHL. Really might make Myers a luxury at some point, though tough for me to get a read on Chevy. In the past, I've thought he should have made a move (and he's stood pat)....and when he did make moves (like the recent Armia deal..from a mildly ignorant outsider, it didn't really make too much sense without a followup move- i.e. resigning Statsny or equivalent).

 

[Hunter368]

Forgot about Niku as I haven't done a preliminary roster analysis on the Jets in sometime....looks like he's trending as well as anyone in the AHL. Really might make Myers a luxury at some point, though tough for me to get a read on Chevy. In the past, I've thought he should have made a move (and he's stood pat)....and when he did make moves (like the recent Armia deal..from a mildly ignorant outsider, it didn't really make too much sense without a followup move- i.e. resigning Statsny or equivalent).

Niku is a huge potential player for use in a critical area....LHD. The organization is extremely patient with its prospects.....never rushes them. They literally almost over play them in the AHL, but that isn't a negative it helps develop them. I don't expect Niku to make the team in Oct.......but fully expect he is a injury call up multi times throughout the year......depending on his play in the AHL & NHL during these injury back fills likely determines if Myers is traded throughout the year or let walk at year end as a playoff in house rental.

I think the Mason/Armia trade can be viewed in one of two ways from a very shrewd GM POV. Either Chevy made the trade anticipating signing Stastny (keep in mind up till late the night before Stastny was signing with us) and needed cap space (which he did) or Chevy had tried in the past to gauge any trade interest in Mason & there was zero and Chevy saw a chance to dump Mason on the Habs at the cost of Armia (who is replaceable with cheaper guy in the AHL) thus freeing up cap space for Stastny assuming he signed or at worse case a FA signed or more likely a TDL move for a playoff push. I have no issues with the move, I liked it a lot.

 

[Hunter368]

I would be open to a hockey trade between Gardiner and Myers since both have same term and our depth on the left is a strength while winnipeg's depth on the right is a strength.

Rielly - Myers/Zaitsev
Hainsey - Myers/Zaitsev
Dermott - Carrick
Borgman

Morrissey/Gardiner - Trouba/big buff
Morrissey/Gardiner - Trouba/Big buff
Morrow/kulikov - poolman/Chariot

Gardiner & Myers have similar strengths & weaknesses......I would sooner keep the devil we know and play Myers on our LHD with buff......which he has some experience doing already.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Gardiner & Myers have similar strengths & weaknesses......I would sooner keep the devil we know and play Myers on our LHD with buff......which he has some experience doing already.

Exactly.
A lot of the Leafs fans in here have no idea who Myers is and how he plays. It seems like they think he's some defensive stalwart because he's tall.
He's a good player but he's definitely not what Toronto needs to improve their defense.

 

[Hunter368]

Exactly.
A lot of the Leafs fans in here have no idea who Myers is and how he plays. It seems like they think he's some defensive stalwart because he's tall.
He's a good player but he's definitely not what Toronto needs to improve their defense.

1st - I know Gardiner, Leafs are my 2nd favourite team been a fan for about 30 years. I don't agree with all the criticism Gardiner gets from the Leaf fan base.....he is what he is.....as offensive D.....not a defensive stalwart. I like Gardiner.....but he's pro & cons are similar to Myers who I also like. Both are offensively strong, softer players who are acceptable defensively but not great.

2nd - Teams needs change over time, so Leaf fans saying they want to move on from Gardiner (or Jets fans saying the same about Myers) is fine.......but be careful what you wish for, both contribute to the offence/transion game significantly as D and the grass isn't always greener on the other side. (regarding all the hate Gardiner/Myers get from fans, especially their own)

 

[Liferleafer]

1st - I know Gardiner, Leafs are my 2nd favourite team been a fan for about 30 years. I don't agree with all the criticism Gardiner gets from the Leaf fan base.....he is what he is.....as offensive D.....not a defensive stalwart. I like Gardiner.....but he's pro & cons are similar to Myers who I also like. Both are offensively strong, softer players who are acceptable defensively but not great.

2nd - Teams needs change over time, so Leaf fans saying they want to move on from Gardiner (or Jets fans saying the same about Myers) is fine.......but be careful what you wish for, both contribute to the offence/transion game significantly as D and the grass isn't always greener on the other side. (regarding all the hate Gardiner/Myers get from fans, especially their own)

I think IF, the Jets decide to move Myers, it will be due to cap. Swapping Gardiner for Myers is about as sideways as you can get....you'd be trading to get the same thing back.

 

[robertocarlos]

Kadri will hate being at 3C, send him to the West.

 

[Liferleafer]

Kadri will hate being at 3C, send him to the West.

This is the point where, as a Leafs fan, i get to use HF's favorite saying...."you will need to overpay to get Kadri".

 

[Jimmyjets]

If the Jets were going to move Myers it would have been before the draft. It makes no sense to move him now because we no longer need the capspace this year for Stasney.

We'll keep him as our own rental. If Trouba doesn't sign long term then I think we move to extend Myers and trade Trouba. If Trouba signs long term Myers walks at season's end and Poolman replaces him next year. Our window is now so any downgrade or lateral move doesn't make sense.

With the cap clearing trade of Armia/Mason there is no reason to make a trade. This ship has already sailed.

 

[Field of Dreams]

Exactly.
A lot of the Leafs fans in here have no idea who Myers is and how he plays. It seems like they think he's some defensive stalwart because he's tall.
He's a good player but he's definitely not what Toronto needs to improve their defense.

Fully aware how similar they are, which also happens to be my reasoning behind why a swap would make sense for both teams.

Gardiner & Myers have similar strengths & weaknesses......I would sooner keep the devil we know and play Myers on our LHD with buff......which he has some experience doing already.

I can respect avoiding the unknown if the status quo is working.

 

[JetsHomer]

I'll spell it out for you because clearly you're a Homer fan and have a lack of understanding yourself and just want to criticize someone else for having an opinion:
The Jets Need:
-Cap space (this year and next for Morrisey, Trouba, Helley, Connor, Laine, Wheeler, Lowry etc.) This year we need if for key RFAs as well as Bonus covereage to not suffer an overage next year when we need it most.
-A defense that defends well (Myers isn't that. He puts up points but he's not good defensively and I'd love to hear your argument that he does!) We've got goal scoring forwards in spades and more coming, we need our D-Core to focus on keeping the puck out of the net and quick puck movement out of the zone
-Assets to keep the train rolling (ELCs will becoming increasingly importent the next 3-5 years to extend the window while all the current guys get PAID)

I could write you a list 10 pages long but those are the specifics relating to my initial opinion. I've done the math many times and played with the salary cap rigorously and though Myers wouldn't be my first choice to be moved (Kulikov, Chiarot, heck even Perrault), but he's the logical choice because A) Poolman can play the 3rd pairing minutes B) He would actually garner assets not COST assets (Kulikov, Chiarot) C) His value is highly inflated due to scoring numbers and counting stats which hide his underlying numbers for some D) RHD are the most coveted item in the NHL right now E) You can't spend 11M on a third pairing defense.

The Jets have the most capspace in the entire league and Myers is far far better than Poolman. Who cares how much our third pairing make if it’s an elite third pairing and the Jets don’t need the cap space?

Mark Chipman burner account spotted?

 

[scarbrow21]

The Jets have the most capspace in the entire league and Myers is far far better than Poolman. Who cares how much our third pairing make if it’s an elite third pairing and the Jets don’t need the cap space?

Mark Chipman burner account spotted?

Clearly you haven't run the numbers...
Let's make some range assumptions first for RFAs:

Morrisey- 4.5-5.5M for term
Trouba- 5.5-7M for term
Hellebuyck- 5-7M for term
Lowry 2-3M on a bridge or 3-4M term

Tanev, Dano, Poolman all get betweek 800K-1M

So low end on that- 19.4M high end is 26.5M

So while you read on Capfriendly that the Jets have the "Most cap space in the league" sitting at 26.8M right now... you seem to forget we also have to sign a BUNCH of RFAs still to fill out the 23 man roster. IMO all those guys save for tanev, dano and Poolman should be locked up long term as their core pieces meaning your 26.8M of CAP space is GONE!!! That "Cap space" also doesn't take into account for Performance bonuses from Laine, Connor, Ros, Poolman, Vesalainen and Niku if they make the team, etc etc. Need to be at least 4M under the 79.5M cap just to save room for those bonuses because if we don't the overage penalty we suffer next year will hurt when we need it most in signing Laine, Connor, Wheeler etc.

 

[JetsHomer]

Morrissey - 5.5m, Trouba 7m, Poolman - AHL. Giving us 7 D

Lowry - 2.75m, Tanev 1m, Dano - League minimum, Petan as extra forward at league minimum. Giving us 13 forwards

Hellebuyck -6m

Full roster with 3m in capspace remaining with only 3.1 in potential bonuses. You do know you can only have 22 players up right? Poolman will be in the AHL and likely on a league minimum.

Why are we moving our depth Dmen just to save money again?

 

[Brock Radunske]

Fully aware how similar they are, which also happens to be my reasoning behind why a swap would make sense for both teams.



I can respect avoiding the unknown if the status quo is working.

It doesn't make sense for Toronto because they have enough offense. They need a RHD who can keep the puck out of the net.

 

[JetsHomer]

Clearly you haven't run the numbers...
Let's make some range assumptions first for RFAs:

Morrisey- 4.5-5.5M for term
Trouba- 5.5-7M for term
Hellebuyck- 5-7M for term
Lowry 2-3M on a bridge or 3-4M term

Tanev, Dano, Poolman all get betweek 800K-1M

So low end on that- 19.4M high end is 26.5M

So while you read on Capfriendly that the Jets have the "Most cap space in the league" sitting at 26.8M right now... you seem to forget we also have to sign a BUNCH of RFAs still to fill out the 23 man roster. IMO all those guys save for tanev, dano and Poolman should be locked up long term as their core pieces meaning your 26.8M of CAP space is GONE!!! That "Cap space" also doesn't take into account for Performance bonuses from Laine, Connor, Ros, Poolman, Vesalainen and Niku if they make the team, etc etc. Need to be at least 4M under the 79.5M cap just to save room for those bonuses because if we don't the overage penalty we suffer next year will hurt when we need it most in signing Laine, Connor, Wheeler etc.

I just ran the numbers. You are wrong.

Petan (.75) - Scheifele (6.13) - Wheeler (5.6)
Perreault (4.13) - Little (5.29) - Laine (.925)
Connor (.925) - Roslovic (.894) - Ehlers (6)
Tanev (1m) - Lowry (3m) - Copp (1m)
Dano (.65)

36.3m total

Morrissey (5.5) - Trouba (7)
Kulikov (4.33)- Buff (7.6)
Chiarot (1.4) - Myers (5.5)
Morrow (1)

32.33m total

Hellebuyck (6)
Brossiant (.65)

6.65m total.

Overall total: 75.28m, 4.22m in space, 3.1 in potential bonuses.

Why are we moving Myers again?