Value of: Tyler Bozak

[buttman*]

Injury prone 50 point center. Good place to meet in the middle, no?

He has had some injuries for sure. Only twice has played 82 games and once over 70.

 

[buttman*]

Relax guys Sorry I wasn't aware that it doesn't matter what you can do but what hypothetically you could do.

Martin Hanzal is a 50 point player.
Cammaleri is a 75 point player.
Paul Stastny is a 65 point player.
Barkov is a 75 point player.
Steen is a 70+ point player...

Are there career averages over those numbers? Bozak scores just over 50 points per 82 for his career. He was on that pace last year. If they averaged those numbers over there career and last year -- then I would say YES they are.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

Larsson for hall isn't remotely on the same level as adding to mcdavid for barrie. who cares about precedence when you can just say it was overpayment and talk about mcdavid trades right .

I clearly stated two trades in the post you quoted, not one. Shaw was an overpayment as well? Have you EVER seen a centre who produces ... 49 points ... on a decent contract get traded for less than a 2nd?

Duke is right. I should just stop, there's no point in this. Maybe we can argue about what colour the sky is or if water is wet. Clearly facts and logic don't matter...

No clearly logic doesn't matter to the irrational Leafs fan....

It's a similar example to show how one overpayment does not justify another. Bringing up a trade that most consider an overpayment is a very very weak way to justify another trade. If the Leafs get lucky, yeah maybe someone would give them a 1st+. Is that fair value? No.

I will change what I originally said though. Right now yeah a 2nd is what is around fair. At the deadline I'd go up to a 1st, teams are usually willing to pay more then.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

Are there career averages over those numbers? Bozak scores just over 50 points per 82 for his career. He was on that pace last year. If they averaged those numbers over there career and last year -- then I would say YES they are.

Taking what was done last year while looking at the previous few seasons. I didn't think looking at just the career avg is accurate when players change. Like Bozak was putting up a lot more points with Kessel, Stastny did better in his early Colorado days. Tried to go with more recent numbers.

 

[The Thin White Duke]

Taking what was done last year while looking at the previous few seasons. I didn't think looking at just the career avg is accurate when players change. Like Bozak was putting up a lot more points with Kessel, Stastny did better in his early Colorado days. Tried to go with more recent numbers.

Was it because Kessel somehow made Bozak stay healthier? Or do you suddenly understand the concept of pace when it suits you.

 

[buttman*]

Taking what was done last year while looking at the previous few seasons. I didn't think looking at just the career avg is accurate when players change. Like Bozak was putting up a lot more points with Kessel, Stastny did better in his early Colorado days. Tried to go with more recent numbers.

Bozak was on a 50 point pace last year -- almost exactly what he paced playing with Kessel. No change. So it would be unfair to say his numbers have dropped since Kessel left.

 

[voxel]

-83 for his career. Yikes. That's like Sam Gagner bad.

Can't stay healthy. Check. Scores points on bad teams. Check. Massive minus entire career. Check. Is this Lupul? No, it's Bozak

 

[StevenDean]

No clearly logic doesn't matter to the irrational Leafs fan....

It's a similar example to show how one overpayment does not justify another. Bringing up a trade that most consider an overpayment is a very very weak way to justify another trade. If the Leafs get lucky, yeah maybe someone would give them a 1st+. Is that fair value? No.

I will change what I originally said though. Right now yeah a 2nd is what is around fair. At the deadline I'd go up to a 1st, teams are usually willing to pay more then.

Oooooh look everyone. He upped his value of Bozak from a 3rd+ to a 1st (minimum 2nd)!!!

WE DID IT! PARTY AT MY PLACE!

CELEBRATE GOOD TIMES COME ON!

 

[scan15*]

-83 for his career. Yikes. That's like Sam Gagner bad.

Can't stay healthy. Check. Scores points on bad teams. Check. Massive minus entire career. Check. Is this Lupul? No, it's Bozak

Another genius who puts too much value into plus/minus. Then he further proves his genius by making meaningless comparisons.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

Was it because Kessel somehow made Bozak stay healthier? Or do you suddenly understand the concept of pace when it suits you.

I've always understood pace, I never knew pace was what determined if someone is a 50point, 60 point player. I thought that came from real results, not hypothetical's.

Bozak was on a 50 point pace last year -- almost exactly what he paced playing with Kessel. No change. So it would be unfair to say his numbers have dropped since Kessel left.

You guys don't know how to use Google? In 2013/14 Bozak had 49 in 58, while Kessel had 80 in 82. I don't know anyone who would Bozak the driving offensive force on that line. That season is also the only where Bozak was on pace for anything more than 50.

-83 for his career. Yikes. That's like Sam Gagner bad.

Can't stay healthy. Check. Scores points on bad teams. Check. Massive minus entire career. Check. Is this Lupul? No, it's Bozak

Hey someone who realizes someone being on pace for 50 points doesn't make a player worth a 1st and 2nd. A lot more to a players value than a hypothetical stat

 

[WrinkledPossum]

Another genius who puts too much value into plus/minus. Then he further proves his genius by making meaningless comparisons.

He also brought up how he is injury prone, resulting in him never actually hitting 50 points.

 

[scan15*]

He also brought up how he is injury prone, resulting in him never actually hitting 50 points.

Yeah, he's had only 2 seasons in his career where he missed +20 games, but we'll call him injury prone because we feel like it.

 

[WrinkledPossum]

Yeah, he's had only 2 seasons in his career where he missed +20 games, but we'll call him injury prone because we feel like it.

Well people are putting so much weight into him being 50 point pace player, but not bringing up why he's never actually hit 50. No one wants to bring up his negatives.

 

[The Apologist]

-83 for his career. Yikes. That's like Sam Gagner bad.

Can't stay healthy. Check. Scores points on bad teams. Check. Massive minus entire career. Check. Is this Lupul? No, it's Bozak

or Taylor Hall

You guys don't know how to use Google? In 2013/14 Bozak had 49 in 58, while Kessel had 80 in 82. I don't know anyone who would Bozak the driving offensive force on that line. That season is also the only where Bozak was on pace for anything more than 50.

11/12 - 53 pt pace
12/13 - 50 pt pace
13/14 - 69 pt pace
14/15 - 49 pts
15/16 - 50 pt pace (no Kessel)

nice twist of words though.
Anyway, as I said at the start of last season, high second/ low first, IF they trade him. Im not certain they dont deal Nazem first.

 

[scan15*]

Well people are putting so much weight into him being 50 point pace player, but not bringing up why he's never actually hit 50. No one wants to bring up his negatives.

If you think of him as a 3C, then he actually doesn't have a whole lot of negatives.

 

[usahockey22flyers]

I'll take him in Philly at 2.1m

 

[WrinkledPossum]

11/12 - 53 pt pace
12/13 - 50 pt pace
13/14 - 69 pt pace
14/15 - 49 pts
15/16 - 50 pt pace (no Kessel)

nice twist of words though.
Anyway, as I said at the start of last season, high second/ low first, IF they trade him. Im not certain they dont deal Nazem first.

What was twisted? I made a mistake by overlooking 3 points in 11/12? Sorry, I really tried to fool everyone...

Also Kadri just signed a long term deal, it would be quite surprising to see him dealt. Bozak is the odd man out if Toronto is going to move a C.

If you think of him as a 3C, then he actually doesn't have a whole lot of negatives.

Then you're looking at some people thinking a 1st is where the discussion should start for a 3rd line C, and if anything less is suggested they get offended... In July, when teams tend to feel confident about their lineups/uneasy about trades I don't see someone offering a 1st for him.

 

[AMDZen]

Well people are putting so much weight into him being 50 point pace player, but not bringing up why he's never actually hit 50. No one wants to bring up his negatives.

He has no negatives. Dude is a game changer

 

[The Apologist]

What was twisted? I made a mistake by overlooking 3 points in 11/12? Sorry, I really tried to fool everyone...

Also Kadri just signed a long term deal, it would be quite surprising to see him dealt. Bozak is the odd man out if Toronto is going to move a C.

Kadri signed to a long term, great value deal makes him much more appealing in trade talks. Not saying the Leafs ARE trading him, but I would not be shocked to see Bozak outlast him.
Regarding the twisted words, using 'over 50' to change the goalposts from the '50 pt pace' player the discussion has focused on and minimize his impact.

Then you're looking at some people thinking a 1st is where the discussion should start for a 3rd line C, and if anything less is suggested they get offended... In July, when teams tend to feel confident about their lineups/uneasy about trades I don't see someone offering a 1st for him.

Nobody has suggested his value starts at a first here, literally nobody. The discussion centered around the only ridiculous assertion made in the entire thread, that a third was his value, maybe a late second if someone got stupid. Guess who made that ridiculous comment. Anyway, much like everyone else in this thread, my amusement with you has also waned. Moving on.

Seriously, for those who want actual discussion, Bozak would get an early 2nd right now easy. I dont agree he's a 3C but instead a rather decent 2C who CAN play 1C when needed and not look out of place. Trade deadline would likely mean a late first IF he continues to pace .6 ppg without Phil on his wing AND can stay healthy. I truly think that this is what the Leafs were asking last year and when nobody bought it, they held on to him, basically stating that they knew he was more than just Kessel's lackey. I dont see anything he did last year that may have reduced that value. His PPG stayed high, his faceoffs are still high, he showed more hustle and defensive awareness than in previous years and was used in basically all situations last year in some capacity. I really have no doubt that if he could stay healthy it would bump up to a late first, or possibly multiple 2s.

He has no negatives. Dude is a game changer

Where is the like button when I need it?

 

[scan15*]

Then you're looking at some people thinking a 1st is where the discussion should start for a 3rd line C, and if anything less is suggested they get offended... In July, when teams tend to feel confident about their lineups/uneasy about trades I don't see someone offering a 1st for him.

Why do you find it so shocking that a good 3C could fetch a 1st rounder from a playoff team? Is your memory so short that you don't remember it happening many times before, or are you just such a leafs hater that the idea of them getting a 1st round pick drives you mad?

 

[WrinkledPossum]

Nobody has suggested his value starts at a first here, literally nobody. The discussion centered around the only ridiculous assertion made in the entire thread, that a third was his value, maybe a late second if someone got stupid. Guess who made that ridiculous comment. Anyway, much like everyone else in this thread, my amusement with you has also waned. Moving on.

I had said a third plus, now who's twisting things??

Seriously, for those who want actual discussion,

Whenerver someone hasn't said something not talking up Bozak they are shunned.

Why do you find it so shocking that a good 3C could fetch a 1st rounder from a playoff team? Is your memory so short that you don't remember it happening many times before

I had said I could see the Leafs getting a first for him. Not right now though, when trades like that have been made it is around the deadline when teams are desperate. (IE Vermette)And I've never seen anyone say the Vermette trade was good for Chicago.

Historically, the summer isn't usually the time when teams are desperate to add depth players. I would be completely surprised if someone gave the Leafs a 1st for Bozak right now.

are you just such a leafs hater that the idea of them getting a 1st round pick drives you mad?

No. I'm just trying to propose something that is fair. I thought that's what the purpose of asking the value of someone is.

I didn't think it was an exercise to overvalue Leaves.. Why is a deal only acceptable if it involves the Leaves robbing another team? My whole experience of this has been irrational Leaf fans trying to act wise because I'm proposing fair value. Not a Toronto robs another team scenario, which seems to be the only ones that make these types of fans happy...

 

[Captain Controversy]

Bozak would be a good 3 c somewhere. He could be a temporary 2 c for a few games a year. Bozak is Toronto's Shawn Horcoff. lol
Actually I take that back, Bozak wishes he has Shawn Horcoffs Career.

 

[buttman*]

You guys don't know how to use Google? In 2013/14 Bozak had 49 in 58, while Kessel had 80 in 82. I don't know anyone who would Bozak the driving offensive force on that line. That season is also the only where Bozak was on pace for anything more than 50.

Seriously? Never stated anything about Kessel. Stated that his career average point per 82 and last year was over 50. Try math -- it works.

 

[buttman*]

Bozak would be a good 3 c somewhere. He could be a temporary 2 c for a few games a year. Bozak is Toronto's Shawn Horcoff. lol
Actually I take that back, Bozak wishes he has Shawn Horcoffs Career.

Well he outscores Horcoff (career) and he's better on faceoffs -- so there's that right?

 

[LeafGrief]

Bozak would be a good 3 c somewhere. He could be a temporary 2 c for a few games a year. Bozak is Toronto's Shawn Horcoff. lol
Actually I take that back, Bozak wishes he has Shawn Horcoffs Career.

Horcoff had one season where he had 73 points, otherwise his career numbers are extremely similar to Bozak's. And just because he is a 3c now, doesn't mean he was always a 3c lol