Tyler Bozak, can we win with him as our #1 center.

[The Winter Soldier]

This isn't quite correct I think. He had 32 points and +4 in 21 games, or 34 points and +5 in 22 games from what I see.

And to answer my own counter to save you the great pain I know you'd go through to cherry pick something else, after those 22 games he scored 11 points in the final 20 games and -9.

Here are Kessel's next 22 games after going 10 points in 12 Games with Kadri, -5.

They are accurate as I posted, check yourself. 34 points in 22 games, +4 when Bozak came back.

Who did he do better with?

01 MAR '14 TOR @ MTL 1 1 2 1 2 0 0 6 16.7 29 22:52
27 FEB '14 TOR @ NYI 1 1 2 2 0 0 0 3 33.3 25 23:01
08 FEB '14 VAN @ TOR* 1 1 2 2 2 0 0 2 50.0 25 21:30
06 FEB '14 TOR @ TBL 0 2 2 1 0 0 0 5 0.0 24 21:58
04 FEB '14 TOR @ FLA 0 0 0 -1 0 0 0 3 0.0 23 18:23
01 FEB '14 OTT @ TOR* 3 1 4 3 2 1 0 5 60.0 30 21:06
30 JAN '14 FLA @ TOR 0 2 2 0 0 0 0 3 0.0 22 19:59
28 JAN '14 TBL @ TOR 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 3 0.0 25 21:31
25 JAN '14 TOR @ WPG 1 1 2 0 0 0 0 3 33.3 27 21:01
23 JAN '14 TOR @ DAL 0 0 0 -4 0 0 0 2 0.0 20 14:03
21 JAN '14 TOR @ COL 2 0 2 0 0 0 0 8 25.0 26 23:11
20 JAN '14 TOR @ PHX 1 1 2 1 0 1 0 3 33.3 24 19:16
18 JAN '14 MTL @ TOR 1 1 2 0 0 0 0 3 33.3 24 20:09
15 JAN '14 BUF @ TOR 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 3 33.3 26 23:33
14 JAN '14 TOR @ BOS 0 3 3 0 0 0 0 1 0.0 22 19:06
12 JAN '14 NJD @ TOR 0 2 2 1 0 0 0 4 0.0 23 19:55
10 JAN '14 TOR @ WSH 1 1 2 0 0 0 0 3 33.3 25 20:11 0.0
09 JAN '14 TOR @ CAR 0 0 0 -1 0 0 0 3 0.0 24 18:48
07 JAN '14 NYI @ TOR 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0.0 24 21:02
04 JAN '14 NYR @ TOR 0 0 0 -3 0 0 0 1 0.0 24 16:33 100.0
01 JAN '14 TOR @ DET 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 7 0.0 26 21:39
29 DEC '13 CAR @ TOR 2 0 2 1 0 0 0 5 40.0 25 23:43

 

[The Winter Soldier]

In 7 of those games, McClement played more than Kadri. So in a way, McClement was the #1 centre in 7 of those games.

He never played with Kessel did he? Our number 1 Center when Bolland and Bozak was out was Kadri. And don't even try to deny this. He was.

 

[diceman934]

Nice save!

But you do not post quote Kadri led the NHL in 1st assists in the thread, and then say I meant 5 on 5. I think you didn't see the 5 on 5 and thought it was overall, but okay let's move on.

I asked you the other night to clarify your OP, what exactly do you mean can we win with Bozak as our #1C?

Why don't you? If you mean a playoff round then a lot of posters except a few would say yes. It would help to clarify such a vague OP. As it stands it could be win just about anything. Ie. A playoff game, a playoff rd, the conference, a cup…ect..

Not a nice save but a fact.....remember the link I posted.....it was First assist per 60 minutes of play with 40 games as the min played. Kadri was the leader. Then I posted the 5 on 5 link which showed Kadri first in the League.....
First link: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...f1=2012_s&f2=5v5&f7=40-&c=0+1+3+5+17+18+19+20

 

[Pyromaniac3]

He never played with Kessel did he? Our number 1 Center when Bolland and Bozak was out was Kadri. And don't even try to deny this. He was.

Kadri nowhere received the minutes a proper #1 centre should receive. The ice time clearly tells us a different story.

Also, don't give me the crap about how Kadri should have been better defensively. No sane coach should ever play a 4th liner in McClement over Kadri.

 

[diceman934]

Can we win with Bozak as our number 1 center. Drew Doughty stated "This is how Drew Doughty, the best player on the best defensive team in the league, described the Leafs’ first line a while back: “We know they play one-dimensionally out there. They’re gonna look for turnovers at all times, they’re going to cheat to get breakaways. We know exactly what to expect. They’re fast. They bulldoze the net.”

Can we win playing this way next season? I think we need a center who can help maintain possession of the puck and not simply pass it to his line mates at first opportunity. Some one who can go in hard on the forecheck and create turnovers and take checks to make plays. Our top line is to soft.

Should we change JVR to another line? I do not think so.
Should we put Kessel on another line? No he needs first line ice time to help create needed ice time.

That leaves only Bozak, Carlyle likes to play full lines on PP and with Bozak not very good on the PP he needs to be replace. We have a huge need for a big strong center and we have a young #2 center, so it is time to get better in a key position. Bozak needs to go so that we can start improving.

We have made the playoffs in a shorten season with Bozak centering our top line and that is it. He centered the top line during the two biggest crashes this team has saw during my life time. Bozak would be a ideal number 3 center. As a number two he would not be able to create offense for his line mates and we would lack the secondary scoring you require from a second line.

So why would we keep a player who has failed to produce when the chips are down on two separate occasions. He has proven not willing to pay the price physically to help his team win, his contract appears good but that is just it.....appears! Last year he disappeared when faced with a physical threat and if we are going to improve we need to at least up grade at least in this area.

People keep saying that he is good defensively when he simply is not....stats do not support this opinion. I would like us trade for a player that is good defensively and physically able to play against the other teams top centers. A player like Couturier would be my target. We could offer the Flyers Percy/Finn/ and Gauthier for him. He would be a big improvement in the defensive side of the puck as well as the physical side of the game. IMO he is ready to explode offensively as well.

Re-posted because someone needs more clarification......

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Not a nice save but a fact.....remember the link I posted.....it was First assist per 60 minutes of play with 40 games as the min played. Kadri was the leader. Then I posted the 5 on 5 link which showed Kadri first in the League.....
First link: http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...f1=2012_s&f2=5v5&f7=40-&c=0+1+3+5+17+18+19+20

Bozak had a good year in first assist this past season. I believe he was 8th. The year before that Kadri lead the league in first assists.

This is the post I replied to you originally, where is the link you said was there? You never posted a link in it.

It is clear what you said and meant here.

Post 474. http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=88040513#post88040513

 

[diceman934]

This is the post I replied to you originally, where is the link you said was there? You never posted a link in it.

It is clear what you said and meant here.

Post 474. http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=88040513#post88040513

I also said I believed.....which is from memory! Now that I am home..

2012/2013 http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...f1=2012_s&f2=5v5&f7=40-&c=0+1+3+5+17+18+19+20

2013/2014 http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...f1=2013_s&f2=5v5&f7=40-&c=0+1+3+5+17+18+19+20

Seems I gave Bozak to much credit this past year.....he was 10th.....But Kadri was indeed 1st the year before!

I posted the link that shows Kadri as the best first Assists per 60 minutes with playing 40 games.

He also was tied with Crosby for first total assists in the NHL....now what?

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...0&type=individual&sort=ifassists&sortdir=DESC

Wrong again....I clearly stated what the Link was.....any further questions.

 

[Grant]

Is Bozak the BEST center in the league for Kessel? No.
Does Bozak at center result in Kessel playing PPG and JVR playing 30/30? Yes.
Does Bozak playing with JVR and Kessel result in the 2nd best offensive line in the league? Yes.
Is Bozak paid like a #1 center? No.
Is Bozak paid like a high end #2 center? No.
Does Bozak's cheap salary allow for more depth? Yes.
Do people not like Toew's + Kane's new deals because it doesn't let Chicago have as much depth? Yes.
Is it silly for people to not like Bozak for being the center on the 2nd best offensive line in the league because he doesn't get paid a lot of money allowing for more depth which is said to be key in winning Stanley Cups? Yes.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Wrong again....I clearly stated what the Link was.....any further questions.

Those Posts are 504 and 512 way after your post 474.

Again, you know what you claimed, I just corrected you that it wasn't correct. Now you are in full bicycle mode.

I just think you did not realize there was a 5 on 5 in the stats. This is why I asked you does it make sense of Crosby having 19 first assists on 41 on the year? It doesn't.

 

[diceman934]

Those Posts are 504 and 512 way after your post 474.

Again, you know what you claimed, I just corrected you that it wasn't correct. Now you are in full bicycle mode.

I just think you did not realize there was a 5 on 5 in the stats. This is why I asked you does it make sense of Crosby having 19 first assists on 41 on the year? It doesn't.

Of course my posts followed my original post.....that is what happens when you post links to prove you are correct.....I admitted my over rating of Bozak.

I made a post and you claimed that I was wrong....I then when I got home posted links to support my claim....you are the one digging the hole.....I admitted that I gave Bozak to much credit when I got home...he was not 8th but 10th....Kadri was indeed 1st!

You are the person who claimed that Malkin lead the league in first assist with 35 when he never had 35 points.....

 

[Teeder9]

Is Bozak the BEST center in the league for Kessel? No.
Does Bozak at center result in Kessel playing PPG and JVR playing 30/30? Yes.
Does Bozak playing with JVR and Kessel result in the 2nd best offensive line in the league? Yes.
Is Bozak paid like a #1 center? No.
Is Bozak paid like a high end #2 center? No.
Does Bozak's cheap salary allow for more depth? Yes.
Do people not like Toew's + Kane's new deals because it doesn't let Chicago have as much depth? Yes.
Is it silly for people to not like Bozak for being the center on the 2nd best offensive line in the league because he doesn't get paid a lot of money allowing for more depth which is said to be key in winning Stanley Cups? Yes.

is the other key to winning the cup being the worst defensive 1st line in hockey? Maybe that extra depth should be used to have 7 guys on the ice when they are

 

[diceman934]

Is Bozak the BEST center in the league for Kessel? No.
Does Bozak at center result in Kessel playing PPG and JVR playing 30/30? Yes.
Does Bozak playing with JVR and Kessel result in the 2nd best offensive line in the league? Yes.
Is Bozak paid like a #1 center? No.
Is Bozak paid like a high end #2 center? No.
Does Bozak's cheap salary allow for more depth? Yes.
Do people not like Toew's + Kane's new deals because it doesn't let Chicago have as much depth? Yes.
Is it silly for people to not like Bozak for being the center on the 2nd best offensive line in the league because he doesn't get paid a lot of money allowing for more depth which is said to be key in winning Stanley Cups? Yes.

What is so silly about not liking him as a center on that line when the get scored against more then they score?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I made a post and you claimed that I was wrong....I then when I got home posted links to support my claim....you are the one digging the hole.....I admitted that I gave Bozak to much credit when I got home...he was not 8th but 10th....Kadri was indeed 1st!

You are the person who claimed that Malkin lead the league in first assist with 35 when he never had 35 points.....

Whatever, change the subject. It is right there in post 474 in this thread what you said.

Either you did not know how to read first assist totals, or you tried to slide one under the carpet by changing the goalposts. In the context of this post, before post 504 and 512, it was not correct, and this is why I challenged you on it.

Bozak had a good year in first assist this past season. I believe he was 8th. The year before that Kadri lead the league in first assists.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=88040513#post88040513

 

[Grant]

What is so silly about not liking him as a center on that line when the get scored against more then they score?

Well if we are going to start using +/- I think it should be noted that Bozak is a +2 which is easily the highest among the Toronto forwards who played meaningful minutes.

 

[Cor]

Well if we are going to start using +/- I think it should be noted that Bozak is a +2 which is easily the highest among the Toronto forwards who played meaningful minutes.

Nah, he is ****, barely a NHL player, cringe worthy, not good, terrible at all aspects, Johnny Pohl is better

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Seriously, can someone clarify what this thread means.

What type of winning are we discussing here in the OP. Winning a game, a season, a playoff round, or the cup itself?

What do you guys think it means? Need this info to answer the question accurately?

 

[Cor]

Seriously, can someone clarify what this thread means.

What type of winning are we discussing here in the OP. Winning a game, a season, a playoff round, or the cup itself?

Don't you guys think we need to know this, to answer the question accurately?

I think it's obvious it means a Stanley Cup

 

[diceman934]

This is the post I replied to you originally, where is the link you said was there? You never posted a link in it.

It is clear what you said and meant here.

Post 474. http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=88040513#post88040513

Yes it was clear and I clearly supported my claim when you challenged me.....hence the links that I posted.

Some one posts something.....another person challenges their claim. Original person posts proof to support their claim. Why is this so hard to understand?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I think it's obvious it means a Stanley Cup

Not really, it can mean a winning season. We are so far away from a Stanley Cup. Crosby could be our number 1 Center and we would not win a cup with this team.

 

[Cor]

Not really, it can mean a winning season. We are so far away from a Stanley Cup. Crosby could be our number 1 Center and we would not win a cup with this team.

Nah, it's pretty obvious, apparently to everyone in the thread but you, because no one else is asking.

 

[diceman934]

Seriously, can someone clarify what this thread means.

What type of winning are we discussing here in the OP. Winning a game, a season, a playoff round, or the cup itself?

What do you guys think it means? Need this info to answer the question accurately?

The type that gets you two points at the end of games!

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Nah, it's pretty obvious, apparently to everyone in the thread but you, because no one else is asking.

Well maybe it is attention to detail we lack here. Can we win with him as our #1 Center, if it is the Cup. Why even ask the question, unless you knew the answer already. As I said I don't think we would win a cup this year with the best hockey player as our #1C with this team. So how is Bozak going to win us the cup?

 

[Diatomic]

Seriously, can someone clarify what this thread means.

What type of winning are we discussing here in the OP. Winning a game, a season, a playoff round, or the cup itself?

What do you guys think it means? Need this info to answer the question accurately?

Since your having trouble I'll gladly answer them all for you, its no, regardless of the question being asked.

 

[Cor]

Well maybe it is attention to detail we lack here. Can we win with him as our #1 Center, if it is the Cup. Why even ask the question, unless you knew the answer already. As I said I don't think we would win a cup this year with the best hockey player as our #1C with this team. So how is Bozak going to win us the cup?

It was never supposed to be THIS YEAR. Simply can we realistically win a cup if Bozak is our #1C..

It's not rocket science dude.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

It was never supposed to be THIS YEAR. Simply can we realistically win a cup if Bozak is our #1C..

It's not rocket science dude.

Let me ask this can we win a cup with Kadri as our #1C? Obcourse not. Asking a question we know the answer to is obvious why it was done.