Player Discussion Tuukka Rask - VII

[finchster]

Rask has had playoffs equal to or greater than Thomas overall.
However, Thomas put up a 0.967 save percentage in the Stanley Cup Final
Rask put up a 0.931 against the Hawks and a 0.912 against the Blues

If you play the best hockey of you career in the Stanley Cup Final, it's probably fair for Thomas to get praise above what he deserves, but it is also unfair to have a 0.967 save percentage Tim Thomas as the standard.

 

[bruinsfan1970]

Rask has had playoffs equal to or greater than Thomas overall.
However, Thomas put up a 0.967 save percentage in the Stanley Cup Final
Rask put up a 0.931 against the Hawks and a 0.912 against the Blues

If you play the best hockey of you career in the Stanley Cup Final, it's probably fair for Thomas to get praise above what he deserves, but it is also unfair to have a 0.967 save percentage Tim Thomas as the standard.

I would take Timmy any day of the week, it's just that simple.

 

[finchster]

I would take Timmy any day of the week, it's just that simple.

All time, I also take Thomas over Rask. 2011 was probably the best season by a goaltender in Bruins history and the 0.967 in the final puts him over the top for me. However, Rask has had two near Conn Smythe playoffs and a pretty decent regular season record. I wouldn't begrudge anyone taking Rask over Thomas at this point.

I'd rate Rask maybe the 7th best goaltender post lockout and Thomas 5th.

 

[Seidenbergy]

Take away the injuries to bergy in the 2013 scf and marchand in this year's scf....and rask plays exactly the same way.....he would now have 2 Conn smythe trophies and the haters would have to find someone else to cry about.

 

[NDiesel]

You also have to consider the quality of their teams. Bruins won the Cup without Rask and have (for the most part) been a model of consistency year-in-year-out since Rask has been in the league. Bobrovsky has played for horrible teams his entire career.

So you don't think that if they have been a model of consistency since Rask has been in the league that maybe Rask is a contributing factor for that consistency? Could it also just possibly be that Rask is actually the superior playoff goalie, which is why his team can consistently make it out of the first round while Bobrovsky's and Price's and Andersen's teams can't? You can't talk about team consistency to talk down a goalie, because in case you forgot the goalie is part of the team.

Rask was in the conn smythe discussion up until game 7 of the cup finals this year. How many of those goalies listed can say that?

I am truly baffled that you can look at a bunch of goalies who have never made it to a cup final and struggle to make it past round 1 and then say that you dislike Rask because he doesn't come up clutch. It doesn't make sense at all.

You keep moving the goal posts all over here man, stay consistent at least in your arguments.

 

[NDiesel]

It’s pretty obvious.

You’re so biased on the issue at this point that anything other than a Stanley Cup win is a “collapse” for Tuukka.

Today I've learned you can only collapse if you make it to the cup finals. It's the only thing that explains to me how Tuukka Rask can be ranked so low on his list based on playoff performance while guys who can't get out of round 1 are higher.

I would much prefer Boborvsky and his 3.14 GAA in the playoffs - everyone knows you have to score 4 goals to win a game.

 

[ON3M4N]

Every goalie has them. Every as in including Thomas.
I LOVED Thomas. But lets not make him a saint and Rask dog ****.
The difference has been razor thin over the long haul.

And to even p,ay with the thought we didnt get a Cup this year because of Rask is beyond laughable to me.

Holy ****. Wheres the tylenol?

What I always find interesting is no one really talks about the defense Thomas had in front of him during the 2011 run.

Chara - 33yr old / (928 Career GP)
Seidenberg - 29yr old / (455 Career GP)
Boychuk - 27yr old / (125 Career GP)
Ference - 31yr old / (640 Career GP)
Kaberle - 32yr old / (902 Career GP)
McQuaid - 24yr old / (86 Career GP)

Chara was a Norris finalist that year with Seids/Boychuk in their prime and a un-mangled McQuaid. Thomas had a very "shut-down" type of defense in front of him. Compare that to the top 6 guys for Boston in the playoffs this year...

McAvoy - 21yr old / (117 Career GP)
Krug - 27yr old / (462 Career GP)
Carlo - 22yr old / (230 Career GP)
Chara - 41yr old / (1,485 Career GP)
Grzelcyk - 25yr old / (129 Career GP)
Clifton - 23yr old / (19 Career GP)

No Norris finalist and one guy in his prime. The 2019 defense was also much younger/inexperienced defense (Chara accounted for 60% of the career gp, compared to 30% in 2011) with a higher focus on transition game vs shut-down defense.

2011 Defense - 3,136 Total GP
2019 Defense - 2,442 Total GP

IDK, I've never really felt the same way about Thomas that most do. Grateful that he helped brought us a cup, but I think the defense doesn't get enough credit. I mean look at Thomas numbers once he left, they just went right into the crapper.

 

[Yeti34]

What I always find interesting is no one really talks about the defense Thomas had in front of him during the 2011 run.

Chara - 33yr old / (928 Career GP)
Seidenberg - 29yr old / (455 Career GP)
Boychuk - 27yr old / (125 Career GP)
Ference - 31yr old / (640 Career GP)
Kaberle - 32yr old / (902 Career GP)
McQuaid - 24yr old / (86 Career GP)

Chara was a Norris finalist that year with Seids/Boychuk in their prime and a un-mangled McQuaid. Thomas had a very "shut-down" type of defense in front of him. Compare that to the top 6 guys for Boston in the playoffs this year...

McAvoy - 21yr old / (117 Career GP)
Krug - 27yr old / (462 Career GP)
Carlo - 22yr old / (230 Career GP)
Chara - 41yr old / (1,485 Career GP)
Grzelcyk - 25yr old / (129 Career GP)
Clifton - 23yr old / (19 Career GP)

No Norris finalist and one guy in his prime. The 2019 defense was also much younger/inexperienced defense (Chara accounted for 60% of the career gp, compared to 30% in 2011) with a higher focus on transition game vs shut-down defense.

2011 Defense - 3,136 Total GP
2019 Defense - 2,442 Total GP

IDK, I've never really felt the same way about Thomas that most do. Grateful that he helped brought us a cup, but I think the defense doesn't get enough credit. I mean look at Thomas numbers once he left, they just went right into the crapper.

Winning the cup for that group elevated their stock to a different level. I would say the Bruins Dmen now are at least on par if not better then the 2011 group, especially with how speed and points have become more important.

 

[jgatie]

I think goalies like Andersen and Bobrovsky have similar issues to Rask in the sense that they choke when it matters but the difference is that Rask has done this on a much more consistent basis whereas the other guys haven't gotten the chance to really showcase themselves enough to the point that. Like, they're definitely still collapsing when it matters, but the sample size is smaller.

Sweet Jesus Christ on a camel! The reason the sample size is smaller is because they never won a f***ing round!

Stop it man, you are embarrassing yourself.

 

[ON3M4N]

Winning the cup for that group elevated their stock to a different level. I would say the Bruins Dmen now are at least on par if not better then the 2011 group, especially with how speed and points have become more important.

Really? The 2019 group didn't have anyone that was playing at the level of Chara in 2011.

 

[ODAAT]

All time, I also take Thomas over Rask. 2011 was probably the best season by a goaltender in Bruins history and the 0.967 in the final puts him over the top for me. However, Rask has had two near Conn Smythe playoffs and a pretty decent regular season record. I wouldn't begrudge anyone taking Rask over Thomas at this point.

I'd rate Rask maybe the 7th best goaltender post lockout and Thomas 5th.

My bigger concern is what this team would look like without Tuukka with no heir apparent knocking on the door?

I`ve taken my shots at Tuukka from time to time but he stole more games than he lost this past playoff

 

[ON3M4N]

My bigger concern is what this team would look like without Tuukka with no heir apparent knocking on the door?

I`ve taken my shots at Tuukka from time to time but he stole more games than he lost this past playoff

You hope in the next two years one of Vladar, Keyser or Swayman step up. I think that's what their hoping for anyways.

 

[ODAAT]

You hope in the next two years one of Vladar, Keyser or Swayman step up. I think that's what their hoping for anyways.

I`m sure they are and it better happen. Hammering on Tuukka as many are quick to do here is fine but think of the alternative right now, not a chance would I trust a guy like Halak as my #1 and from all accounts, not one goalie in Providence has pushed aside anyone for a spot on the big roster

Now, I don`t think Tuukka is in decline yet, he showed he can play at a high level in the playoffs, those so quick to hammer him IMO will have a careful what you wish for situation on their hands if he were to miss significant time

 

[ON3M4N]

I`m sure they are and it better happen. Hammering on Tuukka as many are quick to do here is fine but think of the alternative right now, not a chance would I trust a guy like Halak as my #1 and from all accounts, not one goalie in Providence has pushed aside anyone for a spot on the big roster

Now, I don`t think Tuukka is in decline yet, he showed he can play at a high level in the playoffs, those so quick to hammer him IMO will have a careful what you wish for situation on their hands if he were to miss significant time

Ya I mean when you look back, Rask kind of forced Thomas out of Boston. He was good enough to be a #1 and was your clear cut going of the future. We've yet to get anyone like that since Rask. Probably the two best goalies we've drafted in recent years (not include Vladar, Swayman, Keyser) is either Subban or Hutchinson.

Between Subban and Hutchinson I guess the edge goes to Subban. Not saying much, but then again I'm not/nor was I a fan of the Subban pick.

 

[Seidenbergy]

Winning the cup for that group elevated their stock to a different level. I would say the Bruins Dmen now are at least on par if not better then the 2011 group, especially with how speed and points have become more important.

We're talking about the defensive "shut down" ability of the defensive units and how they helped the goalie......NOT how they match up speed and scoring-wise. It's not even close. I can't see any way a goalie would prefer the 2019 Bruins defense over the 2011 defense if we're talking about shutting the opponent down. Not to mention Claude's style of play vs Cassidy's. While our speed and scoring may benefit, it also leaves Tuukka alone on an island FAR more than Thomas back in the day.

 

[member 96824]

What I always find interesting is no one really talks about the defense Thomas had in front of him during the 2011 run.

Chara - 33yr old / (928 Career GP)
Seidenberg - 29yr old / (455 Career GP)
Boychuk - 27yr old / (125 Career GP)
Ference - 31yr old / (640 Career GP)
Kaberle - 32yr old / (902 Career GP)
McQuaid - 24yr old / (86 Career GP)

Chara was a Norris finalist that year with Seids/Boychuk in their prime and a un-mangled McQuaid. Thomas had a very "shut-down" type of defense in front of him. Compare that to the top 6 guys for Boston in the playoffs this year...

McAvoy - 21yr old / (117 Career GP)
Krug - 27yr old / (462 Career GP)
Carlo - 22yr old / (230 Career GP)
Chara - 41yr old / (1,485 Career GP)
Grzelcyk - 25yr old / (129 Career GP)
Clifton - 23yr old / (19 Career GP)

No Norris finalist and one guy in his prime. The 2019 defense was also much younger/inexperienced defense (Chara accounted for 60% of the career gp, compared to 30% in 2011) with a higher focus on transition game vs shut-down defense.

2011 Defense - 3,136 Total GP
2019 Defense - 2,442 Total GP

IDK, I've never really felt the same way about Thomas that most do. Grateful that he helped brought us a cup, but I think the defense doesn't get enough credit. I mean look at Thomas numbers once he left, they just went right into the crapper.

Also just a completely different era too.

A defender in 2011 was a complete wild man if they considered ever pinching. Not the case today. The speed and style change are a lot of the reason goals per game is trending up and save percentage down over the last 5 years.

 

[hrdpuk]

Tuuk is consistently very good . I hope he lasts a couple more years .

Without him we don't make the playoffs.

 

[Hali33]

I think goalies like Andersen and Bobrovsky have similar issues to Rask in the sense that they choke when it matters but the difference is that Rask has done this on a much more consistent basis whereas the other guys haven't gotten the chance to really showcase themselves enough to the point that. Like, they're definitely still collapsing when it matters, but the sample size is smaller.

You also have to consider the quality of their teams. Bruins won the Cup without Rask and have (for the most part) been a model of consistency year-in-year-out since Rask has been in the league. Bobrovsky has played for horrible teams his entire career.

Imagine writing these posts while trying to argue you have no bias against Rask.

Some of the names you mention ahead of Rask “haven’t had a chance” to showcase because THEY CAN’T EVEN GET OUT OF THE FIRST OR SECOND ROUND. You’re actually giving them credit for that. Instead of recognizing the amount of times you have to not choke under pressure to even get to the finals. Twice. We’re not talking about inexperienced goalies here, they are 1-2 years younger than Rask.

And of course when we’re talking about another goalie the team in front of them matters so they should be judged differently but when people want to talk about how the team dropped the ball in his collapses it’s irrelevant because he’s just got to get it done, period. It’s fine if that’s your opinion but apply it to everyone.

There’s nothing wrong with disliking Rask, I’ve certainly had my issues with his play the last few seasons but to not recognize your own bias and believe you are always fair about the guy is ridiculous. You’ve clearly got a different set of rules for him than other goalies.

 

[Trap Jesus]

Imagine writing these posts while trying to argue you have no bias against Rask.

Some of the names you mention ahead of Rask “haven’t had a chance” to showcase because THEY CAN’T EVEN GET OUT OF THE FIRST OR SECOND ROUND. You’re actually giving them credit for that. Instead of recognizing the amount of times you have to not choke under pressure to even get to the finals. Twice. We’re not talking about inexperienced goalies here, they are 1-2 years younger than Rask.

And of course when we’re talking about another goalie the team in front of them matters so they should be judged differently but when people want to talk about how the team dropped the ball in his collapses it’s irrelevant because he’s just got to get it done, period. It’s fine if that’s your opinion but apply it to everyone.

There’s nothing wrong with disliking Rask, I’ve certainly had my issues with his play the last few seasons but to not recognize your own bias and believe you are always fair about the guy is ridiculous. You’ve clearly got a different set of rules for him than other goalies.

If you don't think there's a massive difference to playing behind the Bruins compared to playing behind the Blue Jackets I don't know what to say. Wins/losses really don't mean anything for goalies.

Since Rask has been here (2009/10), all other goalies combined have a .920 save % compared to Rask's .921.

 

[UncleRico]

Winning the cup for that group elevated their stock to a different level. I would say the Bruins Dmen now are at least on par if not better then the 2011 group, especially with how speed and points have become more important.

The defense now is better offensively but the 2011 defense was insanely better in their defensive zone. Which was definitely beneficial to Thomas’ save percentage.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Tuuk is consistently very good . I hope he lasts a couple more years .

Without him we don't make the playoffs.

Even though Halak had better numbers than him?

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Even though Halak had better numbers than him?

considering he literally went 2+ months without a regulation loss, yeah. 12/29 to 3/9

16-0-3
.929 sv%
2.00 gaa

outside of early in the year, Halak got all the cushy and easy starts and for a while was a liability.

 

[Trap Jesus]

considering he literally went 2+ months without a regulation loss, yeah. 12/29 to 3/9

16-0-3
.929 sv%
2.00 gaa

outside of early in the year, Halak got all the cushy and easy starts and for a while was a liability.

Halak was a major reason the team stayed afloat at the start of the year when Rask went AWOL.

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

Halak was a major reason the team stayed afloat at the start of the year when Rask went AWOL.

Christ...

 

[Trap Jesus]

Christ...

Before Rask came back from his leave of absence in mid-November, which was a quarter way through the season, these are what the numbers were:

Halak: 12 GP - 6-2-2, .932 save %
Rask: 8 GP: 4-4-0, .901 save %

Try two words for your response next time.