Player Discussion Tuukka Rask - VII

[Dr Hook]

Because the answer is obvious...you are competing to win a Stanley Cup...you shouldn't say "I'm not going to stress about the results too much". All the players get asked the same fluff/crap questions from reporters. I haven't seen another player answer the question like that. Everyone with a brain knows this year is different, the conditions are different, but players are still trying to win. I see players going 100% in every other playoff game I've watched. They care which is great. Hearing you're goalie isn't stressing too much suck to hear.

So if he says he isn't stressing out, that means he isn't going to do his best out there? What about all the guys that say, "yeah, it really bothers me and I am going to grind it out and do better" or some variant of that and they end up losing anyway? How much difference does it honestly make? I don't see any ground for someof the ridiculous statements that get made around here that he doesn't care and itsn't going to go out and do the best he can game in and game out. The fact that he is one of the top goalies in the league shows that that is exactly what he does, whatever platitudes he gives or doesn't give to a reporter. I guess okay if it bothers you and others that he doesn't say the right things in press conferences, but if it really bothered his coach or GM, or teammates, he wouldn't be our starting goalie, would he?

 

[13Hockey]

So if he says he isn't stressing out, that means he isn't going to do his best out there? What about all the guys that say, "yeah, it really bothers me and I am going to grind it out and do better" or some variant of that and they end up losing anyway? How much difference does it honestly make? I don't see any ground for someof the ridiculous statements that get made around here that he doesn't care and itsn't going to go out and do the best he can game in and game out. The fact that he is one of the top goalies in the league shows that that is exactly what he does, whatever platitudes he gives or doesn't give to a reporter. I guess okay if it bothers you and others that he doesn't say the right things in press conferences, but if it really bothered his coach or GM, or teammates, he wouldn't be our starting goalie, would he?

Marchand didn’t like the comments

 

[McGarnagle]

This one was an underrated choke by Rask IMO:

Ugh, that game and series were bullshit.
Pasta got tripped on a rush in OT and the refs stand there and do nothing. 15 seconds later on the other end of the ice, they decide to call a penalty on Pasta to lead to the series-ending PP opportunity. I was furious.

 

[Dr Hook]

Marchand didn’t like the comments

Well this is what I saw that he said. Not seeing the rip in Tuuka here- just a different point of view.

"I think maybe he was just talking about the round-robin games,” he said. “I didn’t see his comments, but the round-robin games for us were exhibition games. They should not be labeled playoff games. And those were ones that we were trying to prepare for the game. Maybe he was talking about that.

“These are playoff games, playoff atmosphere, and we’re going to compete. We’re going to compete. It’s definitely different, there is no question. It doesn’t have the same atmosphere, and there is no home ice advantage. It’s just straight-up hockey at this point. Unfortunately, that is the playoffs this year and at least we’re playing."

Tuukka Rask thinks NHL setup is 'definitely not a playoff atmosphere' | Boston.com

 

[GabeTravels]

I like Tuukka. Always have. Think on the whole he's been a damn good keeper for us.

I think to this point he's looked pretty good in the return. I think he should've done better on the Dougie shot last night, but most disagree with me.

His comments about it not feeling like the playoffs are fine... Don't have an issue with them. It's certainly a weird situation.

Him saying he's just gonna see what happens, that he doesn't care that much, and he's just there to have fun?

Nope. HATE it. If he's not there to compete 100%, I don't want him playing. He and the team SHOULD care if they lose.

 

[arider1990]

I like Tuukka. Always have. Think on the whole he's been a damn good keeper for us.

I think to this point he's looked pretty good in the return. I think he should've done better on the Dougie shot last night, but most disagree with me.

His comments about it not feeling like the playoffs are fine... Don't have an issue with them. It's certainly a weird situation.

Him saying he's just gonna see what happens, that he doesn't care that much, and he's just there to have fun?

Nope. HATE it. If he's not there to compete 100%, I don't want him playing. He and the team SHOULD care if they lose.

He never said he didn't care. He said he is not stressing about the results.

 

[Dr Hook]

He never said he didn't care. He said he is not stressing about the results.

Lost in all the hand-wringing and angst over Tuuka's comments is this principle straight out of the performance anxiety/psychology manual. Do your best and results will be what they will be. This is how goalies in Finland were/are taught by Yrpo Ylonen and it is the correct approach. This is also what is typically taught in high-level academies in all walks of performance.

 

[Root]

So if he says he isn't stressing out, that means he isn't going to do his best out there? What about all the guys that say, "yeah, it really bothers me and I am going to grind it out and do better" or some variant of that and they end up losing anyway? How much difference does it honestly make? I don't see any ground for someof the ridiculous statements that get made around here that he doesn't care and itsn't going to go out and do the best he can game in and game out. The fact that he is one of the top goalies in the league shows that that is exactly what he does, whatever platitudes he gives or doesn't give to a reporter. I guess okay if it bothers you and others that he doesn't say the right things in press conferences, but if it really bothered his coach or GM, or teammates, he wouldn't be our starting goalie, would he?

It can bother his Coach, GM and teammates but they can still want him to be the starting goalie because he gives them the best chance to win. I've never said to bench him after this, I know how good Rask is. All I've said is I hate his comments and that's honestly how I feel. Also, FWIW, I don't think the statements about him not caring or not liking hockey that some people make come out of nowhere, but that's just me. At the end of the day he is still one of the best goalies in the league and that's all that matters.

We can keep going back and forth forever but there's no point. I hated his comments, you don't think there's anything wrong with what he said. Fine. I think we can both agree that he is one of the best goalies in the league and I do want him in net tomorrow.

 

[The National]

If another player made those comments I’d be concerned but this is similar to how Tuukka has handled the pressure in the past.

As far as his game goes I think he’s playing just fine. He’s not playing lights out or even great but that will come with more games.

His team 5on5 certainly isn’t making it much easier on him at times, I think that’s the bigger issue.

 

[KnightofBoston]

They were up 3-0 against the Flyers in 2010 and 1-0 to the Lightning in 2018. They were up 1-0 to the Sens in 2017 and tied it up in the 3rd to send it to OT. The 2013 Hawks game is tough to forget up 2-1 late. Canadiens 2014 the rhetoric was offense disappearing, it was 2-1 Habs at the end of 2. Bruins dominated the Blues for play in the 1st period and then Rask gave up two back-breaking goals at the end of the 1st.

Do your research if you actually want to have a debate.

it’s interesting how your definition of “research” is what the rest of us call “perspective”

your response to my point was to give anecdotal evidence with a snap shot of each score

Your first point was that he’s gotten an average of 3.25 GF in elimination games, then you moved the goal posts on my questioning of that.

it’s obvious to see looking at your first posts numbers that the GF in wins is 4.83 and in losses it’s 1.67

You have to use the statistics in the context of where they are, not what you’re want them to be. 3.25 is a useless statistic because it tells you nothing with respect to the question being asked. Hockey is a team game. You need to score more than the other team to win and statistically, skaters score goals, not goalies.

That’s how you use statistics, cherry picking out of context gets you nowhere

now to address your second post;

you give anecdotal evidence on all of the losses and pick the exact moments when the scores changed or what they were and what the became. Bearing in mind that hockey is a team sport, I’ll give my anecdotal view on all of these games as well, because I was there to watch them. “Research” not necessary.

in 2010, I’d argue that was Rask’s weakest of all elimination losses. That said, he was early in his career and carrying an absolutely god awful bruins team offensively. We had to rely on miroslav satan and a scrambled Savard to get anywhere in that series. At the end of the day, the flyers came back with more than half the game left to score exactly the same number of goals out team did plus one, the team collapsed in front of Tuukka, and Tuukka wasn’t good enough to tilt the game. Had he been, it would be looked at as tuukka bailing us out rather than losing the game. That was a team loss

in 2013, the hawks were just as good as our squad if not better and overcame a beat down and dwindling offense of the bruins. The bruins scrambled at the end of the game and couldn’t hold them off. Another one where if Tuukka had held off the hawks, he’s looked at as standing on his head and not losing the game. Another team loss

Habs was an absolutely pathetic showing by a Milan Lucic, Louie Eriksson, Jerome Iginla, Patrice Bergeron, Brad Marchand, and David Krejci loader presidents trophy team. Inexcusable. And their defense was suspect thanks to Chia. Not on Rask far more on the team in front of him

in 2017 against the senators we were still rebuilding and that was once again a low goal support game. A team loss and I thought Tuukka was one of the better players overall

in 2018 we played a stacked Lightning team, got shafted on a blown call, and had little goal support. 1 goal isn’t going to cut it against the lightning regardless of who scores first


2019 was a huge team loss, and we’ll remember Marchand’s gaff more than anything else. But again, zero goals until getting one barely mattered. That’s not on tuukka


I can be critical of Tuukka, I occasionally don’t like his attitude and he occasionally gives up goals he really needs to have at bad moments, but time and time again the defining factor is whether or not the team in front of him can step up or not.

if putting Halak in was going to happen, game 2 after they just played 5 periods of hockey the day before, it should have been then. You putting him in game 3 won’t move the needle on what the team in front of him needs to do, they gave that game away yesterday

 

[Trap Jesus]

it’s interesting how your definition of “research” is what the rest of us call “perspective”

your response to my point was to give anecdotal evidence with a snap shot of each score

Your first point was that he’s gotten an average of 3.25 GF in elimination games, then you moved the goal posts on my questioning of that.

it’s obvious to see looking at your first posts numbers that the GF in wins is 4.83 and in losses it’s 1.67

You have to use the statistics in the context of where they are, not what you’re want them to be. 3.25 is a useless statistic because it tells you nothing with respect to the question being asked. Hockey is a team game. You need to score more than the other team to win and statistically, skaters score goals, not goalies.

That’s how you use statistics, cherry picking out of context gets you nowhere

now to address your second post;

you give anecdotal evidence on all of the losses and pick the exact moments when the scores changed or what they were and what the became. Bearing in mind that hockey is a team sport, I’ll give my anecdotal view on all of these games as well, because I was there to watch them. “Research” not necessary.

in 2010, I’d argue that was Rask’s weakest of all elimination losses. That said, he was early in his career and carrying an absolutely god awful bruins team offensively. We had to rely on miroslav satan and a scrambled Savard to get anywhere in that series. At the end of the day, the flyers came back with more than half the game left to score exactly the same number of goals out team did plus one, the team collapsed in front of Tuukka, and Tuukka wasn’t good enough to tilt the game. Had he been, it would be looked at as tuukka bailing us out rather than losing the game. That was a team loss

in 2013, the hawks were just as good as our squad if not better and overcame a beat down and dwindling offense of the bruins. The bruins scrambled at the end of the game and couldn’t hold them off. Another one where if Tuukka had held off the hawks, he’s looked at as standing on his head and not losing the game. Another team loss

Habs was an absolutely pathetic showing by a Milan Lucic, Louie Eriksson, Jerome Iginla, Patrice Bergeron, Brad Marchand, and David Krejci loader presidents trophy team. Inexcusable. And their defense was suspect thanks to Chia. Not on Rask far more on the team in front of him

in 2017 against the senators we were still rebuilding and that was once again a low goal support game. A team loss and I thought Tuukka was one of the better players overall

in 2018 we played a stacked Lightning team, got shafted on a blown call, and had little goal support. 1 goal isn’t going to cut it against the lightning regardless of who scores first


2019 was a huge team loss, and we’ll remember Marchand’s gaff more than anything else. But again, zero goals until getting one barely mattered. That’s not on tuukka


I can be critical of Tuukka, I occasionally don’t like his attitude and he occasionally gives up goals he really needs to have at bad moments, but time and time again the defining factor is whether or not the team in front of him can step up or not.

if putting Halak in was going to happen, game 2 after they just played 5 periods of hockey the day before, it should have been then. You putting him in game 3 won’t move the needle on what the team in front of him needs to do, they gave that game away yesterday

What am I cherry-picking or moving the goal posts on? I'm providing every game he's played where the Bruins faced elimination, good or bad. Obviously on average they're going to have fewer goals in losses, it's like when people say "team A has a perfect record when player x scores". You're dealing with a stat that is going to make another complementary stat much more likely (losses probably mean fewer goals scored on average). Wins/Losses have always been an overrated stat for goalies, I don't even really care about the 6-6 record, it's his performance in all of the games overall, he can't control what the offense is doing, but they're still giving him a lot of support in the games. People have no issue saying "the offense dried up" but the only time I would agree that that was the primary area of concern was 2014 and 2012 (didn't play, but that was a notable series for goals drying up). The offense completely fell apart vs. Montreal towards the end of the series.

 

[Smitty93]

I don't think anyone likes Rask's comment, but I care a lot more about his actions. Which goals through 2 games were given up because he wasn't trying? If he was giving up goals because of laziness, that'd be one thing.

The goals he's given up so far are one-timer, breakaway, screen, screen, cleanly beaten from the slot, and one-timer. I would have liked for him to saved 1 or 2 of them, but they're primarily due to bad defense, which often followed terrible breakout attempts.

 

[Jean_Jacket41]

Rask needs to wake up.

If not, start Halak.

 

[304]

Has anyone brought up the fact that goalies are weird?

 

[DarrenBanks56]

Rask isn't to blame on the goals themselves. The team in front of him takes blame as well.

BUT he's also playing on or below par of Reimer and Mrazek. Playoffs are when we expect him to be BETTER than them. Having an elite to make a few of those saves that rob the other team, would be welcomed.

What goal was it when Rask completed flung the puck up the boards to nobody but a Carolina player? I know that play led directly to a goal. He also put the defense in at least 3 or 4 bad situations with the way he handles the puck. As for the goals. I wouldve likes to have seen him stop at least one of the first 2 goals. They were good shots but one save there goes a long way. I mean, he barely had any quality shots on him these first 2 games.

 

[Seidenbergy]

What goal was it when Rask completed flung the puck up the boards to nobody but a Carolina player? I know that play led directly to a goal. He also put the defense in at least 3 or 4 bad situations with the way he handles the puck. As for the goals. I wouldve likes to have seen him stop at least one of the first 2 goals. They were good shots but one save there goes a long way. I mean, he barely had any quality shots on him these first 2 games.

It was a power play for carolina and he had a guy bearing down on him. Looks to me like a bruin (krejci? Can't tell.. Resolution is bad) was there but couldn't control it. Then they started running around not covering anyone. Not sure what else he really could've done there. He could've reversed it I guess but that's hindsight.

 

[KnightofBoston]

What am I cherry-picking or moving the goal posts on? I'm providing every game he's played where the Bruins faced elimination, good or bad. Obviously on average they're going to have fewer goals in losses, it's like when people say "team A has a perfect record when player x scores". You're dealing with a stat that is going to make another complementary stat much more likely (losses probably mean fewer goals scored on average). Wins/Losses have always been an overrated stat for goalies, I don't even really care about the 6-6 record, it's his performance in all of the games overall, he can't control what the offense is doing, but they're still giving him a lot of support in the games. People have no issue saying "the offense dried up" but the only time I would agree that that was the primary area of concern was 2014 and 2012 (didn't play, but that was a notable series for goals drying up). The offense completely fell apart vs. Montreal towards the end of the series.

Idk man, I just think you’re bad at analyzing stats and giving them meaning, at least in this instance

and I’m far from a Rask apologist


A much more damning stat is his GAA over those 12 games. Which leads me to my biggest concern for rask; when teams become opportunists or he suddenly needs to hold the fort at the end of a period or game, he’s off compared to his ceiling. If I were a coach, I would be looking at why that is, and it may very well be more of a team/system thing than a Rask thing

edit: fix an autocorrect

 

[CDJ]

Okay, so the "too much" in the sentence means he cares about the results but not that much. Without the "too much" it means he doesn't care at all. Either way it is not the message you want to hear from your goalie.

And he has that reputation for good reason. But even so I don't agree with the people that say we can't win with him or that he's a choker. He's far from the first professional athlete that doesn't care as much as fans but he's an elite talent and a great goalie.




Agreed.

I absolutely want my goalie to not put excess pressure on himself after one loss, I don’t mind hearing it all

But then again I’m not like others here with a blatant agenda against him

 

[Trap Jesus]

Idk man, I just think you’re bad at analyzing stats and giving them meaning, at least in this instance

and I’m far from a Rask apologist


A much more damning stat is his GAA over those 12 games. Which leads me to my biggest concern for rask; when teams become opportunists or he suddenly needs to hold the fort at the end of a period or game, he’s off compared to his ceiling. If I were a coach, I would be looking at why that is, and it may very well be more of a team/system thing than a Rask thing

edit: fix an autocorrect

Lol you're criticizing analysis of stats and then reference GAA? There's no more meaningless stat than GAA, it's irrelevant when you pair it with sv %. Every stat has its flaws, if you're watching the games you know it backs it up. I agree with the last point.

 

[CDJ]

Lost in all the hand-wringing and angst over Tuuka's comments is this principle straight out of the performance anxiety/psychology manual. Do your best and results will be what they will be. This is how goalies in Finland were/are taught by Yrpo Ylonen and it is the correct approach. This is also what is typically taught in high-level academies in all walks of performance.

Not only that ITS LITERALLY THE SAME MENTALITY EVERY SUCCESSFUL QB IN THE HISTORY OF FOOTBALL HAS HAD.

its considered an ASSET to have that mentality in sports. You know certain people who are streaky like Debrusk? I guarantee you he beats himself up on these cold streaks where he isn’t getting results and grips the stick tighter. That’s not what you want from any athlete, let alone a goalie. I want him to trust in himself that he’s the shit and that the close loss he suffered (after playing a solid but not perfect game) won’t be a piano on his back for the next game. Just go out and play your game the best you possibly can- I don’t see a lack of effort from him so to me he’s doing that

“I’m not going to stress too much” =\= “I don’t care”, no matter how much those of you with an agenda want to believe it

 

[goldnblack]

Here for the weird goalies

 

[b in vancouver]

I LOVE that comment by Tuukka.
People need to relax. He's been one of, if not, The premier goalie of the past decade, so I'm pretty sure he's figured out the mind-set he needs to be in to play his best. I'm also sure I don't want a goalie (of all positions) stressing out over a loss or bad goal. He shouldn't be worried about the outcome - he should be focused on doing his job (and enjoying it).

If you're worried about that comment then I'm pretty sure you've never competed at a high level or properly. That's Basic 101. Do your job, trust your teammates, work hard, have fun, results will follow. Don't get too high after a win/ don't get too low after a loss. They're cliches, but they're hard to internalize.

 

[NDiesel]

What am I cherry-picking or moving the goal posts on? I'm providing every game he's played where the Bruins faced elimination, good or bad. Obviously on average they're going to have fewer goals in losses, it's like when people say "team A has a perfect record when player x scores". You're dealing with a stat that is going to make another complementary stat much more likely (losses probably mean fewer goals scored on average). Wins/Losses have always been an overrated stat for goalies, I don't even really care about the 6-6 record, it's his performance in all of the games overall, he can't control what the offense is doing, but they're still giving him a lot of support in the games. People have no issue saying "the offense dried up" but the only time I would agree that that was the primary area of concern was 2014 and 2012 (didn't play, but that was a notable series for goals drying up). The offense completely fell apart vs. Montreal towards the end of the series.[/B]

How isnt the bolded cherry picking? Your inherent issue is you only consider games while facing elimination as clutch games, but when he closes out a series in game 4, 5 or 6 with a shutout while they lead the series it is excluded. Why is that?

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Simply put, the best attribute a goalie could ever have is a short memory.

So no, I don't want my goalie to be pissed off and over analyzing and stressing about the ones he could've had.

 

[Trap Jesus]

How isnt the bolded cherry picking? Your inherent issue is you only consider games while facing elimination as clutch games, but when he closes out a series in game 4, 5 or 6 with a shutout while they lead the series it is excluded. Why is that?

We've already been over this in some form a million times before. Closing teams out is great but when you get another chance (or multiple chances) to do the same thing it's not inherently as important as when your back is up against the wall.

When Bruins can win a series (excluding Game 7):

2010 Sabres Game 6 - 3/30
2010 Flyers Game 4 - 5/34
2010 Flyers Game 5 - 4/31
2010 Flyers Game 6 - 2/27
2013 Leafs Game 5 - 2/33
2013 Leafs Game 6 - 2/26
2013 Rangers Game 4 - 4/32
2013 Rangers Game 5 - 1/29
2013 Penguins Game 4 - 0/26
2014 Red Wings Game 5 - 2/33
2014 Canadiens Game 6 - 4/28
2018 Leafs Game 5 - 4/13
2018 Leafs Game 6 - 2/29
2019 Jackets Game 6 - 0/39
2019 Hurricanes Game 4 - 0/24

15 GP: 35/434 = .919

Elimination Games (including Game 7):

2010 Flyers Game 7 - 4/27
2013 Leafs Game 7 - 4/28
2013 Blackhawks Game 6 - 3/31
2014 Canadiens Game 7 - 3/18
2017 Senators Game 5 - 2/43
2017 Senators Game 6 - 3/29
2018 Leafs Game 7 - 4/24
2018 Lightning Game 5 - 2/21
2019 Leafs Game 6 - 2/24
2019 Leafs Game 7 - 1/33
2019 Blues Game 6 - 1/29
2019 Blues Game 7 - 4/20

12 GP: 33/327 = .899

All other games (62 GP): 136/2025 = .933

In terms of a goalie that can step up in the clutch (Quick):

When Kings can win a series (excluding Game 7):

2012 Canucks Game 4 - 3/30
2012 Canucks Game 5 - 1/27
2012 Blues Game 4 - 1/24
2012 Coyotes Game 4 - 2/21
2012 Coyotes Game 5 - 3/41
2012 Devils Game 4 - 2/23
2012 Devils Game 5 - 2/19
2012 Devils Game 6 - 1/18
2013 Blues Game 6 - 1/22
2013 Sharks Game 6 - 2/26
2014 Hawks Game 5 - 5/45
2014 Hawks Game 6 - 4/25
2014 Rangers Game 4 - 2/19
2014 Rangers Game 5 - 2/30

14 GP: 31/370 = .916

Elimination games (including Game 7):

2010 Canucks Game 6 - 3/21
2011 Sharks Game 5 - 1/52
2011 Sharks Game 6 - 4/35
2013 Sharks Game 7 - 1/26
2013 Kings Game 5 - 4/35
2014 Sharks Game 4 - 3/39
2014 Sharks Game 5 - 0/30
2014 Sharks Game 6 - 1/26
2014 Sharks Game 7 - 1/40
2014 Ducks Game 6 - 1/22
2014 Ducks Game 7 - 2/27
2014 Hawks Game 7 - 4/41
2016 Sharks Game 5 - 5/27
2018 Knights Game 4 - 1/21

14 GP: 31/442 = .930

All other games (57 GP): 133/1691 = .921

Did it matter in 2014 that he put up a .891 when trying to close teams out if it only really mattered when he showed up with a .947 save percentage when it was do or die? Binnington was another great example last year. Absolutely lights out in his elimination games, and he got lit up in Game 6. Same as when Thomas got lit up by Tampa in Game 6 then locked it down in 7.​