Salary Cap: trouble in cap land?

[WestCoastBruinsFan]

What precisely was the "good problem to have" again?

Pretty sure no one claimed it was the high RFA contracts. No one was stating it was better for sustained roster building that RFAs were getting more money.

Yet you continue to beat your chest about an argument you were having with nobody but yourself and your imagination.

AOF has been saying that Toronto was going to be in cap hell because they have too many elite players that will demand very big RFA contracts. Many people were saying too many elite players was a good problem to have as they would be traceable assets. We will see how this plays out.

 

[EverettMike]

AOF has been saying that Toronto was going to be in cap hell because they have too many elite players that will demand very big RFA contracts. Many people were saying too many elite players was a good problem to have as they would be traceable assets. We will see how this plays out.

And they still are, just like we've been saying for two years. But other cap mistakes, like Marleau, has squeezed their cap, and he's claiming that proves him right the whole time even though no one ever argued otherwise. I don't even think anyone argued RFA deals seem to be a problem, which is another straw man victory lap he's obnoxiously taking, even though the stadium is empty and no one else competed.

Maybe they do lose Marner this offseason because they can't make the numbers work. They'll get four first round picks for him. Oh. The. Horror.

 

[Lobster57]

And they still are, just like we've been saying for two years. But other cap mistakes, like Marleau, has squeezed their cap, and he's claiming that proves him right the whole time even though no one ever argued otherwise. I don't even think anyone argued RFA deals seem to be a problem, which is another straw man victory lap he's obnoxiously taking, even though the stadium is empty and no one else competed.

Maybe they do lose Marner this offseason because they can't make the numbers work. They'll get four first round picks for him. Oh. The. Horror.

Yep. The "problem" wasn't having a bunch of guys that were going to get big 2nd deals, it was that the Leafs got impatient and signed a couple vets to big contracts in Marleau and Tavares and added them to a pretty loaded forward group, meanwhile they had a bottom 5 blueline.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

to be honest I dont even blame the leafs for this... they are sort of stuck in a problem created by Edmonton...

but what Toronto did that wasnt too smart is there new gm said dont worry, we got plenty of money for everyone.

then they didnt sign Matthews/marner when they could have... and got stuck overpaying nylander as a result after a pr nightmare... and obviously there losing to boston the last 2 years has been a sour taste too.

im not singling Toronto out as having done anything too horribly bad. you might say their contracts to brown and hyman were unnecessarily generous at the time... and almost everyone here questioned giving marleau the 3 year term... so they arent perfect but they arent that much worst then the average team either

where things really went off the wheels is in Edmonton

when McDavid signed his contract it was based on some really freaky projections of where the cap would be in 2-3 years. then some media types started saying McDavid needed the same % of the cap that Crosby got. they even reported that the contract has been agreed to for this %

in reality there was so much wrong with this from day 1. from Crosby asking for a % of the cap {remember he gets his birth year not some %... and he resigned 5 years later for the same number so he doesnt give a damn about % he wants his lucky number} to the projections how the cap could be up over 85 mill by now {sorry this escrow situation was being leaked as a problem 2 years ago and I kept wondering how they thought the union would just bend over and let it continue all along... the experts didnt want to admit human nature is what it is... but unions dont like being screwed} and then there was the whole Edmonton political scene being so unique

remember the oilers history involves selling wayne gretzky and mark messier. the oiler ownership has been under the gun for 30 years because of this past. when Darryl katz got control of the team one of his primary goals was to be allowed to redevelop downtown Edmonton. he needed a lot of zoning help and a lot of tax payer dollars and basically a lot of goodwill. he said he would make the oilers respectable again after basically being the joke of the nhl… but he wanted his multi billion dollar tax payer supported real estate deal.

so... there was no way he could let McDavid leave over a money issue...

it was the perfect fire... McDavid as a 21 year old became the highest paid player in the nhl by a mile and then drasailt said hell im worth at least 3/4 of that if I am scoring 3/4 as many points...

I think the McDavid contract by itself wouldnt necessarily have killed the market for 21 year olds… but people wanted to appear smart and they tried their damnest to explain why other guys contracts proved the numbers needed to go up.

I remember Tarasenko was dragged into the discussion but he was 24 and the team was actually buying ufa years... kutzev was another guy that they wanted to use as proof that 1 good season by age 24 was reason to hand out a contract over 7 mill... fans/media were crying for the poison koolaid and loving it but this was changing the market…

and then we got the contract for Eichel... and that really sealed the deal as far as what Toronto would be forced to do.

so im not going to blame Toronto for starting this problem/or even being the worst offenders of making it worst...

my point im making here that a lot of you arent following is that Toronto makes gobs of money and they had to be convinced to agree to a cap. they were promised certain things. they were basically told that small market teams would build their team with cheap home drafted talent and keep these kids until roughly age 27... at which point the kids would get early access to ufa… and at that point the big market teams would be allowed to sign these shinny bright big name superstars

it just never happened. the big market teams did agree to the cap to help out the small market teams but now Toronto is the team being ripped apart. now Toronto is the team losing all their famous names.

meanwhile did the small market teams get what they bargained for? they thought the kids under 27 would be affordable... but now the kids under 27 are going to be the highest paid players in the nhl. look how many kids under the age of 24 were in the top 30 highest paid players 2 years ago... and look how many will be there this time next month...

the reason this is a problem is that no one saw it coming. it wasnt the plan. there was a flaw in the last cba. the vetern players of the cba are not happy. they lost a years salary to a lockout. they were supposed to get big contracts as ufa to make up for it. but now that money is going to 21 year old kids.

the small market teams are not happy... they are being forced to break their teams up before their players get to age 27... and in the meantime they will be paying a lot of these kids 7-8-9 mill a year now and theres no reason to think that numbers going down anytime soon {unless the next cba is a warzone}

and with Toronto getting nailed here suddenly the leagues single most important team is going to be in full revolt

and again... some of you say im on this agenda for why? because I want to be right? im predicting a huge cba problem and a possible lost season... hell no, I dont want to be right. but is anyone else going on record telling you about any of this $41#?

I dont think I have the power to change it... I dont think all of us on the same page have the power to change it... but I think we have a right to know the axe is coming for our necks. some of my 'fans' here get off on trying to knock me down a peg... so to you im glad you got your jollies today. its surprising how none of you can discuss the problem because honestly its not too surprising. I think you are oblivious and rather ignorant about the problem.

take your personal shots at me... im a big boy and I enjoy owning your head space so its fine. I get a thrill out of it.

but I have said what I have said here because some of you might actually want to look at the problem and not be caught totally blind sided by it.

remember the last couple cba lockouts... when they told us there would be no problem... and we wouldnt lose any games...

the authorities have lied to us before.
in Toronto... their gm said last year there would be plenty of money for everyone

im shocked some of you still seem to be so Pollyanna on this topic

anyhow... nothing else for me to say here for the next couple days. I suspect july 1 will really heat this topic up. until then you all have all day sunday to make personal attacks on me to your hearts content.

im taking a 36 hour break to get ready for what will be some amazing shock for a few of you and a lot of fun for myself on monday

 

[Rumpy]

I think I could solve the equation from Good Will Hunting easier than understand 1/2 the stuff in this thread.

 

[Deuce17]

so as Toronto signs 2 more guys for around 600k more than we thought... it brings more into focus this train wreck that I was explaining a couple years ago... 'this good problem to have' I was told I was clueless about.

lets look again... Toronto now has committed 74.5 million to 18 warm bodies. they have not made 1 single improvement to the team that failed last year.

their top rightwing and their number 2 and 3 dmen are not resigned yet. also they have given away their first round pick for next year and they are still in this horrible situation.

people say that Nathan Horton can be put on ltir... but remember how that works. a team MUST BE CAP COMPLIANT BEFORE A GUY CAN GO ON LTIR... so signing marner before the season starts isnt really an option without clearing more cap space. Toronto doesnt have a lot of waiver exempt contracts they can park in the ahl to maximize ltir benefits.

now Toronto fans are saying we can give away Zaitsev... brown can be given away... we can get cap space...

okay listen... hear... understand...

Toronto is talking about losing gardiner, hainsey, Zaitsev, brown, marleau and a first round pick... and getting NOTHING BACK!!!!

remember when people were mocking me that they could make trades... and having too many good players was a 'good problem to have'

guess what...

Toronto doesnt need to worry about that good problem anymore... they didnt win a single playoff series and now they are tearing their team apart. they are also giving away their future by moving picks. its crazy, but this team has already peaked and is in decline.

thats what happens when you pay rfa the same as ufa. this is why you CANT BUILD THROUGH THE DRAFT ANYMORE!

Winnipeg has moved trouba for pennies... and now theres talk ehlers is headed out the door... they cant afford to keep myers…

I predict within a year or two we will see the same thing happening in buffalo and Colorado

in the old days teams like Chicago, LA, and our Bruins won a cup before we had to loose this many key players to the cap... that isnt how it is anymore. the change was how much 21 year old kids are being paid.

ufa always got paid... and teams know how to budget for it. rosters were adjusted but it was all part of the plan. now these rfa are being paid crazy and no one knows what will happen next

or... maybe I do cause I explained this problem a couple years ago

cba renegotiation is right around the corner... and this is the summer that a lot of battle lines are being discovered by the powers to be. I hate it. I didnt want to be right. sadly, there was nothing anyone could have done. its like when the asteroid is headed towards the earth. knowing its coming, doesnt really help

anyhow... I share because a lot of people were telling me how out to lunch I was. I dont mind keeping score who was right and who was wrong, but its always better to do it after. so... in a couple months I will be happy to let you all use the facts to show me how clueless I really was.

You started this thread to take your victory lap (self-awarded btw cause I don’t agree at all) and then replied to your own ‘I told you so’ thread by saying ‘I told you so’....again? It’s almost the exact same post...are you not receiving an appropriate amount of praise?

 

[DKH]

The only victory lap will be me in about 1 week when I pick Jack Hughes or Kaapo Kakko with the draft pick AOF traded me last year for basically Torey Krug in the SIM league

Mike I owe you

 

[Over the volcano]

This thread needs a glen beck chalkboard.


And also - f*** the leafs

 

[Number8]

I don’t pretend to know the ins and outs of what happened in Toronto.

However, if they’d traded rights to Nylander for a decent defenseman making anything south of $5.5M right now, their situation would look a lot better than it does.

Maybe that wasn’t possible. Doubt it, but who knows.

I do know their obsession with the end of the ice 200 feet away from their own goal is not conducive to post season success in this century so far.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

cap situation is coming into focus quick for the bruins now... we got 10.1 mill room with 22 guys signed. we have 13 forwards, 7 dmen, 2 goalies

needing signing are McAvoy, carlo, Heinen

that would give us 9 dmen which is too many... so the sensible logic says we will trade moore and miller and then sign McAvoy/carlo with that 15 million room

we would have enough for Heinen too

so what does our roster look like?

marchand/Bergeron/pastrnak {gives us cup caliber first line}
debrusk/krejci/Ritchie {maybe Bjork/backes/kuhlman/or even senyshyn figure here}
Heinen/coyle/kuhlman {again a guy like backs or even lindholm might fit in here}
Nordstrom/kuraly/wagner {cup caliber 4th line}
Lindholm/backes

McAvoy/grezlyck {no arguing their puck moving capability}
carlo/chara {I expect a kid to help give chara load management relief}
Clifton/krug {krug will take some chara shifts so he will get his icetime}
kid or kampfer {do we carry 8 dmen this year?}

rask
halak

will backes end up getting dealt to free up more cap room? honestly I dont see the need if we move miller and moore… and I dont really see how we keep them

this team is as good as the one we dominated the regular season last year... and I think we would have plenty of cap room at the deadline to get a second line scorer if Ritchie/Bjork/kuhlman dont fill the hole.

our free agent day might not have wowed anyone but when you look at the big picture it was smart and it made sense. weve added some size, we added a couple recent top draft picks that still are young enough to work out for us. it looks like the team has shown us the plan and honestly to me it looks ok

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

cap situation is coming into focus quick for the bruins now... we got 10.1 mill room with 22 guys signed. we have 13 forwards, 7 dmen, 2 goalies

needing signing are McAvoy, carlo, Heinen

that would give us 9 dmen which is too many... so the sensible logic says we will trade moore and miller and then sign McAvoy/carlo with that 15 million room

we would have enough for Heinen too

so what does our roster look like?

marchand/Bergeron/pastrnak {gives us cup caliber first line}
debrusk/krejci/Ritchie {maybe Bjork/backes/kuhlman/or even senyshyn figure here}
Heinen/coyle/kuhlman {again a guy like backs or even lindholm might fit in here}
Nordstrom/kuraly/wagner {cup caliber 4th line}
Lindholm/backes

McAvoy/grezlyck {no arguing their puck moving capability}
carlo/chara {I expect a kid to help give chara load management relief}
Clifton/krug {krug will take some chara shifts so he will get his icetime}
kid or kampfer {do we carry 8 dmen this year?}

rask
halak

will backes end up getting dealt to free up more cap room? honestly I dont see the need if we move miller and moore… and I dont really see how we keep them

this team is as good as the one we dominated the regular season last year... and I think we would have plenty of cap room at the deadline to get a second line scorer if Ritchie/Bjork/kuhlman dont fill the hole.

our free agent day might not have wowed anyone but when you look at the big picture it was smart and it made sense. weve added some size, we added a couple recent top draft picks that still are young enough to work out for us. it looks like the team has shown us the plan and honestly to me it looks ok

So to sum up your whole premise was wrong like everyone one told you and there isn’t a problem

Amazing a point can be made with one sentence isn’t?

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

So to sum up your whole premise was wrong like everyone one told you and there isn’t a problem

Amazing a point can be made with one sentence isn’t?

did I ever say we had a problem? id like you to find that post donnie… your challange for the day.

but seriously, Donnie I expect better from you since you simply cant wait to respond to every post I make. honestly I thought you knew my stuff a lot better than making a rookie mistake like this. the teams I said had a problem are teams like Toronto and Winnipeg this year... and that the problem in general will bite everyone at the next cba. ive been saying all year that boston should have lots of room to sign our rfa without having to move backes.

anyhow... fail again... if you are going to respond to me try to at least remember what i said... but that said, I hope you will keep trying... i do have the confidence that eventually you will be able to make a post that contributes to the conversation here without having to rely on quoting or stealing someone elses work or ideas... really... I do believe in you and I havent given up yet

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

did I ever say we had a problem? id like you to find that post donnie… your challange for the day.

but seriously, Donnie I expect better from you since you simply cant wait to respond to every post I make. honestly I thought you knew my stuff a lot better than making a rookie mistake like this. the teams I said had a problem are teams like Toronto and Winnipeg this year... and that the problem in general will bite everyone at the next cba. ive been saying all year that boston should have lots of room to sign our rfa without having to move backes.

anyhow... fail again... if you are going to respond to me try to at least remember what i said... but that said, I hope you will keep trying... i do have the confidence that eventually you will be able to make a post that contributes to the conversation here without having to rely on quoting or stealing someone elses work or ideas... really... I do believe in you and I havent given up yet

Your first question “Did I ever say there was a problem?”

See the title and endless strawman arguments you made in this thread

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Your first question “Did I ever say there was a problem?”

See the title and endless strawman arguments you made in this thread

said theres a problem around the league... our cap management will handle this year. the overall problem is much much bigger

say Donnie... I didnt want to really give you something difficult like this as your first lesson. why dont I give you a little wind wheel and you can watch the fireworks in a couple days and study that dictionary for another quote you can share with the rest of us.

you really do much better when you cut and paste material from the godfather or the dictionary... its ok

 

[TheReal13Linseman]

Watching clip of Donnie on the news tonight, it appears that he really thinks we're just one or two clicks from coming back to a Cup Final; doesn't want to tinker with it too much. Donny Delusional. Didn't the Red Sox employ the same strategy this season?

How's that workin out?..... Not. Too. Gooood.

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

The most entertaining thread ever of made up drama, paranoia and stupidity

Love it

 

[member 96824]

Bump.


f***.

 

[BruinDust]

Bump.


****.

I didn't realize NHL GM's are allowed to make deals. I was certain by reading this thread that making trades was against the rules.

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

I didn't realize NHL GM's are allowed to make deals. I was certain by reading this thread that making trades was against the rules.

It is against the rules.

Common sense does not apply here

 

[Gonzothe7thDman]

"Suck it Phaneuf"

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

I didn't realize NHL GM's are allowed to make deals. I was certain by reading this thread that making trades was against the rules.

this is a good trade to you? a young cost controlled valuable playoff performer {remember Toronto lost the last 2 years after he got booted} for what?

a 1 year guy headed to ufa and a rfa?

it might work... or it might be proof of what I was saying about this team forced to tear itself apart

and hell... how else would they shed salary except bad trades? did no one bother to read a single word what I said or was it simply way above your comprehension levels?

pathetic responses boys... but im glad I own your head space.

 

[EverettMike]

LOL



Amazing that's what they did. Who could have predicted this........except everyone minus one guy.

 

[BruinDust]

this is a good trade to you? a young cost controlled valuable playoff performer {remember Toronto lost the last 2 years after he got booted} for what?

a 1 year guy headed to ufa and a rfa?

it might work... or it might be proof of what I was saying about this team forced to tear itself apart

and hell... how else would they shed salary except bad trades? did no one bother to read a single word what I said or was it simply way above your comprehension levels?

pathetic responses boys... but im glad I own your head space.

I think the Barrie/Kadri deal is a fine move for the Leafs.

They did OK in their Zaitsev/Ceci too. They swapped out D-men who are comparable but they don't have to pay Zaitsev for the next several years, they can walk from Ceci next summer if they want after he signs his one year. Meanwhile Brown is a good player but buried on a team with 3 other better RWers. Ben Harper is a decent 3rd pairing guy on a team that needed an affordable NHL caliber D-man.

I did see something kinda pathetic you posted earlier. Something about how hockey players are a bunch of uneducated people and implying that they aren't capable of understanding the tax implications of signing in say Dallas vs. New York. Yet I'd wager every dollar I own that 99% of hockey players can put together an essay or piece of writing that isn't a pile of unorganized musings and ridiculous thoughts like pretty much every single post you have ever made on this board.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

I think the Barrie/Kadri deal is a fine move for the Leafs.

They did OK in their Zaitsev/Ceci too. They swapped out D-men who are comparable but they don't have to pay Zaitsev for the next several years, they can walk from Ceci next summer if they want after he signs his one year. Meanwhile Brown is a good player but buried on a team with 3 other better RWers. Ben Harper is a decent 3rd pairing guy on a team that needed an affordable NHL caliber D-man.

I did see something kinda pathetic you posted earlier. Something about how hockey players are a bunch of uneducated people and implying that they aren't capable of understanding the tax implications of signing in say Dallas vs. New York. Yet I'd wager every dollar I own that 99% of hockey players can put together an essay or piece of writing that isn't a pile of unorganized musings and ridiculous thoughts like pretty much every single post you have ever made on this board.

and yet we hear about so many broke players penniless within a few years of being retired

we hear about many entertainers that dont even pay their taxes and get their homes sold by the irs

hockey players may or may not be smarter than the average celebrity/athlete but I will stand by my post

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

I think the Barrie/Kadri deal is a fine move for the Leafs.

They did OK in their Zaitsev/Ceci too. They swapped out D-men who are comparable but they don't have to pay Zaitsev for the next several years, they can walk from Ceci next summer if they want after he signs his one year. Meanwhile Brown is a good player but buried on a team with 3 other better RWers. Ben Harper is a decent 3rd pairing guy on a team that needed an affordable NHL caliber D-man.

I did see something kinda pathetic you posted earlier. Something about how hockey players are a bunch of uneducated people and implying that they aren't capable of understanding the tax implications of signing in say Dallas vs. New York. Yet I'd wager every dollar I own that 99% of hockey players can put together an essay or piece of writing that isn't a pile of unorganized musings and ridiculous thoughts like pretty much every single post you have ever made on this board.

A little wordy but spot on