Trouble at ESPN Regarding Racial Relations

jkrdevil

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Apr 24, 2006
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The mentality is not that ESPN covers big events, but that events are big because ESPN is covering them. They really believe their own crap doesn't stink.

This is getting off the topic a bit, but this is an excellent summary of why I feel ESPN struggles compared to the other networks (except for Fox which has a similar cultural attitude) at actually broadcasting sports.
 
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DrMartinVanNostrand

Kramerica Industries
Oct 6, 2017
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Also veering OT in a way, but ESPN traditionally spends way too much time focusing on the crowds at sporting events compared to other networks, and if last night's coverage of Game 2 is any indication, it's going to be even worse now in this semi post-COVID time now that fans are back, almost to normal. Showing shots of Suns fans after basically every time they scored was utterly obnoxious and I don't know why they think that's something people want to see. I'd be willing to bet TNT took about as many pan shots of the crowd in entire games as ESPN did in one quarter last night, and it's once again one of the many reasons why Turner's coverage is so much better.

This is one thing I haven't missed over the last 15 years - NBC always did crowd shots with a significant degree of moderation, and they did it in better ways as well I would argue - and don't find myself looking forward to with ESPN games in the future. Whether it's basketball or football or anything else, their game presentation utterly f*cking sucks.
 

golfortennis

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Oct 25, 2007
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Also veering OT in a way, but ESPN traditionally spends way too much time focusing on the crowds at sporting events compared to other networks, and if last night's coverage of Game 2 is any indication, it's going to be even worse now in this semi post-COVID time now that fans are back, almost to normal. Showing shots of Suns fans after basically every time they scored was utterly obnoxious and I don't know why they think that's something people want to see. I'd be willing to bet TNT took about as many pan shots of the crowd in entire games as ESPN did in one quarter last night, and it's once again one of the many reasons why Turner's coverage is so much better.

This is one thing I haven't missed over the last 15 years - NBC always did crowd shots with a significant degree of moderation, and they did it in better ways as well I would argue - and don't find myself looking forward to with ESPN games in the future. Whether it's basketball or football or anything else, their game presentation utterly f*cking sucks.

Fox's baseball producers would like to have a word with you about crowd shots.

I agree though, I never understood why there are so many shots of the crowd. I want to see the players. Even in tennis, after a match is over, as the players are coming to the net shake, they will show some people in the crowd. Especially if it was a tense match, I want to see the net exchange.

Up here in Canada, there is also the "shots from bars"(pre-covid anyway) for either olympics or a team was on the road. Gee, I wonder what will happen in that picture? You mean a bunch of people will jump up and shake their hands up in the air? I'd have never guessed, except that every time prior it has been the exact same thing. Somehow that is worth air time? Except for game coverage and replays, if everything else was shown about 1/20 the frequency it is now, broadcasts would improve immensely.
 

timorous me

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Apr 14, 2010
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Also veering OT in a way, but ESPN traditionally spends way too much time focusing on the crowds at sporting events compared to other networks, and if last night's coverage of Game 2 is any indication, it's going to be even worse now in this semi post-COVID time now that fans are back, almost to normal. Showing shots of Suns fans after basically every time they scored was utterly obnoxious and I don't know why they think that's something people want to see. I'd be willing to bet TNT took about as many pan shots of the crowd in entire games as ESPN did in one quarter last night, and it's once again one of the many reasons why Turner's coverage is so much better.

This is one thing I haven't missed over the last 15 years - NBC always did crowd shots with a significant degree of moderation, and they did it in better ways as well I would argue - and don't find myself looking forward to with ESPN games in the future. Whether it's basketball or football or anything else, their game presentation utterly f*cking sucks.

So glad you said this! I barely watch any NBA these days but caught that game and was taken aback by the obnoxiousness of the Phoenix fans. And then I saw some fans off to the side, just behaving normally, and I realized that ESPN was basically showing the same couple groups of fans over and over and over to create that image.

It will be interesting to see any new approaches to broadcasting games from what we've become accustomed to with NBC and Sportsnet, but that's certainly not to say that those alterations will necessarily be good.

I'm also anxious about how things are going to change for NHL.tv subscribers with ESPN+ now housing that, but that's a different story.
 
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DoyleG

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timorous me

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Stephen A is awful generally. This comment should at the very least get him suspended.

Suspended? Hell, they loved it. ESPN turned it into a whole cycle of additional segments and appearances by guests that they could market and get more views and clicks from.

They seem to have always made up their own rules as they've gone along, which I'm pretty sure is what Rachel Nichols was complaining about in the first place.
 

timorous me

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NBC sports so that means she will be doing SNF, Norte Dame Games and anything else that they have.

I wonder what this might mean for Kathryn Tappen. I've always liked her work and wonder if she could thrive with different production. Nothing against Liam McHugh, but I'd be targeting her over him if I were TNT.
 

StreetHawk

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Sep 30, 2017
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I wonder what this might mean for Kathryn Tappen. I've always liked her work and wonder if she could thrive with different production. Nothing against Liam McHugh, but I'd be targeting her over him if I were TNT.
Depends on their contract status. But, I agree that I would look to bring in Tappen over McHugh for hockey. Most of these "hosts" know that they need versatility in multiple sports (pro and college) to maintain or increase their value in the future.

for Taylor, if this NBC deal goes through, she still maintains high exposure with SNF and Notre Dame games to keep a high profile. McHugh had to travel to Notre Dame game sites to the SNF game location. Still a year left for Tirico to handle the studio duties before he takes over for Michaels as the PBP guy, which would then allow Taylor to slide into his role in the NY studio for SNF.
 

jkrdevil

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Apr 24, 2006
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I wonder what this might mean for Kathryn Tappen. I've always liked her work and wonder if she could thrive with different production. Nothing against Liam McHugh, but I'd be targeting her over him if I were TNT.

She has already said she is staying at NBC. So my guess is she has a future role on the table. Taylor will essentially replace McHugh and his roles.
 
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aqib

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Feb 13, 2012
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Suspended? Hell, they loved it. ESPN turned it into a whole cycle of additional segments and appearances by guests that they could market and get more views and clicks from.

They seem to have always made up their own rules as they've gone along, which I'm pretty sure is what Rachel Nichols was complaining about in the first place.

If a white guy had said the same thing he said that guy would have been suspended in about 30 seconds (I say this as someone who is neither black nor white). This was a flat out racist comment (And yes minorities are often racist towards other minority groups) and racism is racism regardless of who says it.
 

johnjm22

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Aug 2, 2005
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Sometimes I wish sports coverage involved no pundits, no analysis, no interviews, no post-game, no pre-game, no intermission reports.

Just give me the game.

I'd rather watch commercials for 15 minutes straight than sit through an intermission report.

The older I get the less patience I have for any fluff surrounding the game.
 

aqib

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Feb 13, 2012
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Sometimes I wish sports coverage involved no pundits, no analysis, no interviews, no post-game, no pre-game, no intermission reports.

Just give me the game.

I'd rather watch commercials for 15 minutes straight than sit through an intermission report.

The older I get the less patience I have for any fluff surrounding the game.

My last couple of years in Cleveland I started watching more hockey and took up following the Premier League because sports talk hosts in Cleveland were taking the fun out of the other sports.
 

OG6ix

Registered User
Apr 11, 2006
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Sometimes I wish sports coverage involved no pundits, no analysis, no interviews, no post-game, no pre-game, no intermission reports.

Just give me the game.

I'd rather watch commercials for 15 minutes straight than sit through an intermission report.

The older I get the less patience I have for any fluff surrounding the game.

I honestly think the amount of "Analysis" is crazy now. I am good with pre-game interviews and a post game. During the intermissions they can have puff pieces. The more airtime you give people the more ways they can shoot themselves in the foot.
 
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timorous me

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Apr 14, 2010
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I honestly think the amount of "Analysis" is crazy now. I am good with pre-game interviews and a post game. During the intermissions they can have puff pieces. The more airtime you give people the more ways they can shoot themselves in the foot.

I think the problem is that most analysis is useless to anyone who's watched the sport and read/thought about it for some time.

I can actually learn things from watching intermissions of Rangers games where Steve Valiquette breaks things down, and Kevin Bieksa can illuminate things sometimes in ways I wouldn't have seen otherwise. But other than those two, it's slim pickings. But they show that useful stuff can be provided. I think the key is that they're both good at explaining what they see, and they also don't treat viewers like they're newbie morons. Most fans watching aren't, so why pretend and talk down to them?
 
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Burke the Legend

Registered User
Feb 22, 2012
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Sometimes I wish sports coverage involved no pundits, no analysis, no interviews, no post-game, no pre-game, no intermission reports.

Just give me the game.

I'd rather watch commercials for 15 minutes straight than sit through an intermission report.

The older I get the less patience I have for any fluff surrounding the game.

This is why I like NHL.TV streaming it just puts up a placeholder screen for 15 minutes.

My dream of course would be to get a game sounds only audio feed with no announcer overlay.
 

AdvancedPressure

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Jan 19, 2021
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The long-form podcast has really exposed the flaws of the major networks like ESPN. There is barely enough time for any meaningful dialogue before we're hit with the next set of commercials. The analysis from most panelists usually consists of a five minute series of hot takes and hyperbole followed by a set of annoying, repetitive advertisements from the corporate sponsors. Then there is politics. It's not a right or left thing, it's about being heavily biased one way and alienating half of your viewers. Right leaning viewers don't want to listen to an out of touch millionaire like LeBron James talk about equality and privilege in the same way that left-leaning viewers don't want to hear athletes like Colby Covington talk about Donald Trump.
 

StreetHawk

Registered User
Sep 30, 2017
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The long-form podcast has really exposed the flaws of the major networks like ESPN. There is barely enough time for any meaningful dialogue before we're hit with the next set of commercials. The analysis from most panelists usually consists of a five minute series of hot takes and hyperbole followed by a set of annoying, repetitive advertisements from the corporate sponsors. Then there is politics. It's not a right or left thing, it's about being heavily biased one way and alienating half of your viewers. Right leaning viewers don't want to listen to an out of touch millionaire like LeBron James talk about equality and privilege in the same way that left-leaning viewers don't want to hear athletes like Colby Covington talk about Donald Trump.
They are analyzing a game not a career or something that requires a long discussion. Maybe the crews are too large if they don’t have more time to allocate to the crew aside from 10-12 seconds for their analysis.

so today would be Taylor’s last with ESPN if she doesn’t extend but signs with NBC. ESPN hoping that Milwaukee closes it out tonight?
 

jkrdevil

UnRegistered User
Apr 24, 2006
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Miami
They are analyzing a game not a career or something that requires a long discussion. Maybe the crews are too large if they don’t have more time to allocate to the crew aside from 10-12 seconds for their analysis.

so today would be Taylor’s last with ESPN if she doesn’t extend but signs with NBC. ESPN hoping that Milwaukee closes it out tonight?

Apparently Taylor and ESPN have an agreement that she stays on for a game 7 on Thursday.
 

Ernie

Registered User
Aug 3, 2004
12,754
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This sounds to me like a bunch of inside baseball, ambitious people jostling for the best positions.

Good on Taylor for getting the maximum dollar though. I'll note that she's younger and arguably prettier than Nichols, which is a discriminatory issue with women that nobody seems to want to acknowledge.
 
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