Proposal: Trouba for Bouchard

[lablite47]

Oilers need defensive help now. Jets have Buff, Meyers and Poolman on right side for a few more years. Bouchard steps in to replace Buff when his contract expires (or sooner if promoted early). Niku also in the wings..

Click to read more...

 

[780il]

Trouba wont sign in Edmonton. No deal. However, if Trouba was willing to sign here for 8 years at or under 6 million then I pull the trigger. Since that won't happen, no dice.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Not interested. Unless Trouba will sign long term - and every indication is that he has absolutely no interest in being in Canada long term - we are just jettisoning Bouchard for a Trouba rental.

If Trouba would sign long term at a reasonable figure then I would do this. Since he won’t, the Oilers stay far, far away.

That’s before we even look at the financials of a deal like this. We’d have to make sure we could afford him long term and im far from sold that we can.

 

[DarthProbert]

The salary cap exists.

 

[ConnorMcMullet]

For 1 year of Trouba? No thanks.

 

[TGWL]

A guy they just drafted and have high hopes for, cost controlled, for a UFA wanting 8 or so million if he sticks around? Yeah, sounds like a deal Oilers should entertain... Did you even think about this?

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

If Trouba leaves Winnipeg, All indications are that he wants to play in the US. Fat chance i see Trouba leaving Winnipeg for Edmonton Trouba more then likely wants further east not west.

 

[bukwas]

As tired as i'm sure they are of being patient i believe the Oilers would do well to build up their prospect pool over the next couple years even if that means missing the playoffs.
Draft and develop, then insert higher skilled youngsters on ELC's to offset the cap crunch. Once their due to get paid the space to do so should be available.

 

[Snowman]

No reason for the Jets to panic and sell low. Bouchard is a good player however we'd be taking a risk as Bouchard may never become as good as Trouba. When you're a contending team you don't trade a top pairing defenseman for a hope.

 

[Jay haller]

An elite dman prospect (best outside of Dahlin in ten years) for 3rd pairing dman. Jets fans are hilarious

 

[ChaoticOrange]

An elite dman prospect (best outside of Dahlin in ten years) for 3rd pairing dman. Jets fans are hilarious

I got shredded for just suggesting Trouba isn’t a #1, you’re about to be mozzarella.

Contracts being what they are and hugely important in today’s league Edmonton doesn’t do this but let’s not go crazy here.

 

[780il]

An elite dman prospect (best outside of Dahlin in ten years) for 3rd pairing dman. Jets fans are hilarious

Oh boy. I'm an Oilers fan and even I think thats crazy. But I hope to god thats the case lol.

Bouchard is a damn good d prospect but isnt close to Hedman/Doughty/Karlsson or even Ekblad before the concussions got to him. Trouba is a good #2/3, he hasn't brought enough offensively to date but he's far from the third pairing.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Oh boy. I'm an Oilers fan and even I think thats crazy. But I hope to god thats the case lol.

Bouchard is a damn good d prospect but isnt close to Hedman/Doughty/Karlsson or even Ekblad before the concussions got to him. Trouba is a good #2/3, he hasn't brought enough offensively to date but he's far from the third pairing.

A 2/3?? Ruh roh. Better duck for cover. Someone will come stomping in demanding lists of defencemen from you. (You’re right, that’s what he is, but I digress)

 

[Romang67]

A 2/3?? Ruh roh. Better duck for cover. Someone will come stomping in demanding lists of defencemen from you. (You’re right, that’s what he is, but I digress)

So you're of the opinion that people should throw out claims without being asked to back them up? That sounds like a pretty sad version of a discussion board.

And no, Trouba isn't a #2/3 D-man. Since you apparently prefer when people don't offer support for their claims, I will leave it at that.

 

[McSuper]

An elite dman prospect (best outside of Dahlin in ten years) for 3rd pairing dman. Jets fans are hilarious

Come on now . You are sounding like a TML fan with all our prospect are can't miss guys . in the 10 years there more then a few that would be ranked much higher if they were in the same draft year .

Herman would like to say hi . So would Doughty . Even Larsson was pretty highly regarded and if you remember correctly fans on HF bashed the Oilers for not taking Larsson at 1

 

[ChaoticOrange]

So you're of the opinion that people should throw out claims without being asked to back them up? That sounds like a pretty sad version of a discussion board.

And no, Trouba isn't a #2/3 D-man. Since you apparently prefer when people don't offer support for their claims, I will leave it at that.

You’re the one refuting the claim, burden of proof lies on you.

Trouba doesn’t produce like a #1, play the icetime of one, or generate shots like one. What do you think he does that makes him a #1?

 

[Romang67]

You’re the one refuting the claim, burden of proof lies on you.

Trouba doesn’t produce like a #1, play the icetime of one, or generate shots like one. What do you think he does that makes him a #1?

Ah yes, the famous burden of disproof. As eloquently described by Bertrand Russell just before he blasted off a teapot into orbit somewhere between Earth and Mars. Don't believe me? Well, feel free to disprove it.

Trouba was top 30 among D-men in P/60 last season. He was top 10 the season before. That season he was also 11th in the league in TOI/G. He dropped there this year, probably because we had a RD consisting of Byfuglien, Trouba, and Myers. We had the luxury of allowing our D-men to play less than they usually do.

All in all, he has 40 ESP over the past 2 seasons, which would be very good even if he hadn't missed 50 games. So if your argument is that he's a "2/3" because he misses games, then I guess you're on to something. It's just a weird argument.

And no, he isn't great at generating shots. Given his QoC (highest among D-men on the Jets together with Morrissey), his results are pretty clearly in top pairing territory though. Certainly closer to a #1 than a #3.

Speaking of which, I thought the claim - the claim you said was correct - was that he was a 2/3? Doesn't that indicate that most #2 D-men in the league are better than he is too?

I don't think this trade is good for Edmonton. I don't think they would do it, nor that they should do it. I don't think Trouba would re-sign there. Trouba is certainly not a "2/3" D-man though. That 3 is simply incorrect.

 

[HOPE]

An elite dman prospect (best outside of Dahlin in ten years) for 3rd pairing dman. Jets fans are hilarious

what the actual f*** did i just read?can someone wake me up?

 

[Jay haller]

Trouba is Kris Russell but he is actually bad.

 

[Maukkis]

Oh, the lazy and misinformed 'Trouba does not produce' narrative is back. 1.22 ES points per hour, one of the highest producers of ixG among defensemen... but still not good offensively. Love this.

Unless Trouba is seen walking in a 'f*** the Oilers' T-shirt, they do this deal any day of the week. Trouba is already at a level which Bouchard is extremely unlikely to ever get to.

 

[Brockon]

An elite dman prospect (best outside of Dahlin in ten years) for 3rd pairing dman. Jets fans are hilarious

Are you kidding me??? Bouchard wasn't even the top rated dman after Dahlin this year... Depending on the rankings you are looking at he was behind Dobson, Hughes and Boqvist. That's 2018. Then you have Chabot, Ekblad, Hedman, Karlsson, Doughty etc... You're clearly out to lunch on your talent assessment for Bouchard.

Let's leave the Trouba slander aside - the reason the proposal is s*** is because Trouba is a 2019 UFA on record saying he won't sign an extension for a Canadian team.

Compared to an untested rookie, who the Oilers control for 7 years as an RFA. There's no contest, given the Oilers cap situation, even if they thought Trouba was the better talent, they can't afford him long term without significant asset surrender to make the cap work to shed contracts.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Doesn't matter how much Trouba produces. One or two years of Trouba is not worth a blue chip prospect like Bouchard. If (and a big 'if') an extension could be worked out for at least 5 seasons into his UFA years with a reasonable AAV (no more than 6m) then I'd probably do it, but you'd also have to take back Russell to make the cap work, and he'd have to approve it since he has a NTC (as bewildering as that is, but that's another topic). He has three seasons left, including this one, with a 4m cap hit.

Nurse - Trouba
Klefbom - Larsson

Would be a nice top-4. But I also really like Bouchard an awful lot... For an extended Trouba it's a tough one, but I'd probably do it. We'd still need a PP specialist, though, which Bouchard excels at. Would have to hope like hell that Bear could be one. Maybe a healthy Klefbom can be as good as he was a couple seasons ago on the PP. I guess we'll see this season, more than likely. But it's not quite as cut and dry as it may seem at first glance; there's other things to consider.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Ah yes, the famous burden of disproof. As eloquently described by Bertrand Russell just before he blasted off a teapot into orbit somewhere between Earth and Mars. Don't believe me? Well, feel free to disprove it.

Trouba was top 30 among D-men in P/60 last season. He was top 10 the season before. That season he was also 11th in the league in TOI/G. He dropped there this year, probably because we had a RD consisting of Byfuglien, Trouba, and Myers. We had the luxury of allowing our D-men to play less than they usually do.

All in all, he has 40 ESP over the past 2 seasons, which would be very good even if he hadn't missed 50 games. So if your argument is that he's a "2/3" because he misses games, then I guess you're on to something. It's just a weird argument.

And no, he isn't great at generating shots. Given his QoC (highest among D-men on the Jets together with Morrissey), his results are pretty clearly in top pairing territory though. Certainly closer to a #1 than a #3.

Speaking of which, I thought the claim - the claim you said was correct - was that he was a 2/3? Doesn't that indicate that most #2 D-men in the league are better than he is too?

I don't think this trade is good for Edmonton. I don't think they would do it, nor that they should do it. I don't think Trouba would re-sign there. Trouba is certainly not a "2/3" D-man though. That 3 is simply incorrect.

I’ll blockquote this when I’m not on mobile.

Firstly, when I say he is a 2/3, I mean he is a 2 on many teams. On some teams blessed with excellent defences, he is a 3 or second pairing guy - you know, like he is in Winnipeg. If he is any more than your #2 defenceman, your team in all likelihood is not good. I do not believe he is a #1, and I also do not believe there are 31 number 1 defencemen/defensive corps anchors/let’s build around this guy types.

Secondly, points per 60 is usually used by people with a weak argument trying to prop up their player, but if you must run with it, you mean his even strength points per 60 among defencemen that have played X number of games (I don’t know what number you used) since raw data wise he was 52nd, not top 30. P/60 is flawed because it disregards coaching decisions, player usage, qualcomp, zonestarts, etc. Travis Hickey, Markus Nutivaara, and Nick Deslauriers had better p/60 stats, so looking at it isolated from anything else isn’t necessarily valuable. His ice time, production, and ice-tilting isn’t that of what I would want from a #1 defenceman. We have this argument with Larsson haters all the time and I kind of hate having to argue this point because Trouba is really good, but calling him a #1 doesn’t do any favours and it’s these ideas in his head - that he’s something he’s not - that make him want 8 million x 8. Whoever gives him that will have the biggest case of buyers remorse since the Pontiac Aztek.

Anointing him as a top pairing option is fine. I draw the line at ‘he’s a #1 defenceman already!’ ... yeah, no he is not. There’s also the fact that playing top pairing for a great team is definitely going to make a guy look better and make his life easier than playing top pairing for a shit one.

Thirdly, as I addressed above, he’s a 3 on a few teams but not many. On many teams, he’s a top pairing option, but there are teams with better defencemen than he is in that top spot. He’s a #1 defenceman if you don’t have anyone better but I definitely don’t think he’s a #1 on a team in that traditional ‘I got this boys I’m playing 26 minutes a night containing Connor you guys go score’ that wants to go deep in the playoffs. He’s a good defenceman on a good defensive group but some of you guys talk about him like he’s prime Pronger. He’s not. He probably never will be. Why exaggerate? You get all mad when people say ‘hey he might be a three on some good teams’ but anointing him a #1 and expecting him to bring about that kind of return is sacrosanct?

Finally, yes, we’re agreed there. I put it this way in another thread - is Trouba better right now than Nurse, Klefbom, or Larsson? Yeah, I think he is (though Nurse is closer than you lot would like to admit ) is he more valuable than they are? Would I deal any one of them or Bouchard straight up for him, all things taken into account? Not on your life.

Value vs Ability. causing HF fights since 2000 - something.

 

[Baxterman]

That is terrible value for the Jets and doesn't seem to make much sense considering they are closer to winning now than looking for the future.

Surely they can get a better player than Bouchard and a guy that is ready to contribute in the NHL this year. They may be deep on the right side but I don't think they can just dump Trouba for nothing for this upcoming year.

If the best they can do is Bouchard I would think they should just keep Trouba for this year and risk losing him.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Oilers say no simply for the fact that they just drafted Bouchard and he could become Trouba or better.

Of course there's always the chance he doesn't become anything close to Trouba, but still.

Their main young players are already signed long-term. Let Bouchard grow with them and take advantage of the 3 guaranteed cheap years if his contract.

That's nothing against Trouba.