Trevor Timmins Discussion (Part 8)

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montreal

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He was actually talking about 1st rounders (morphed from a discussion on whether we should have gone for broke on Aho) and I believe only Patches has more points than Higgins of all our 1st round picks since we took Koivu in 1993.

Drafting high end forwards has certainly been a challenge for us since the glory years.

my bad then. For 1st rounders since Higgins we have only picked 7 forwards up to 2016. Pac is ahead of Higgins and Galchenyuk should be next year in around half the games. Kotsy and Chipchura had injuries that they never really recovered from so who knows how much that impacted them. leaving Leblanc, McCarron and Scherbak. The McCarron pick clearly they went for size and failed, but Scherbak and Leblanc went where they were projected at least.
 

CHfan1

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I didn't look past Higgins as I assumed you were right but in fact you are incorrect. Also we all know that the Habs couldn't draft for shit in the '90's which is why when Savard came in he revamped the scouting. Since then they have drafted much better at defense and goalie and done poorly at forward.

Ribs - 793
Pleks - 608
Pac - 554
Ryder - 484
Tucker - 476
Gallagher - 334
Higgins - 333
Galcheyuk - 320
Grabo - 296


I did state taken in round 1 in both posts. Most of those players (who were great picks as later rounders) were not taken in round 1.

Edit: just seen your post above acknowledging that.
 
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Schooner Guy

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my bad then. For 1st rounders since Higgins we have only picked 7 forwards up to 2016. Pac is ahead of Higgins and Galchenyuk should be next year in around half the games. Kotsy and Chipchura had injuries that they never really recovered from so who knows how much that impacted them. leaving Leblanc, McCarron and Scherbak. The McCarron pick clearly they went for size and failed, but Scherbak and Leblanc went where they were projected at least.

How many forwards in the 1st since Koivu in 1993? I can think of Jason Ward, Terry Ryan, Eric Chouinard and another Higgins named Matt who had nothing going for him in terms of NHL upside. None of these players were late 1st rounders either. All were taken no later than the middle of the 1st.
 

montreal

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How many forwards in the 1st since Koivu in 1993? I can think of Jason Ward, Terry Ryan, Eric Chouinard and another Higgins named Matt who had nothing going for him in terms of NHL upside. None of these players were late 1st rounders either. All were taken no later than the middle of the 1st.

yea I left out the pre Higgins years since as I said we all know how badly the Habs drafted in the '90's outside of '98.
 
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CHfan1

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my bad then. For 1st rounders since Higgins we have only picked 7 forwards up to 2016. Pac is ahead of Higgins and Galchenyuk should be next year in around half the games. Kotsy and Chipchura had injuries that they never really recovered from so who knows how much that impacted them. leaving Leblanc, McCarron and Scherbak. The McCarron pick clearly they went for size and failed, but Scherbak and Leblanc went where they were projected at least.

There are many reasons why it’s been so bad, not a lot of high picks, poor drafting, poor development, injuries, etc. But regardless the lack of game changing elite forwards drafted since 93 is a knock on the whole organization and a big reason why the Habs haven’t contended in a long time.
 
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Schooner Guy

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yea I left out the pre Higgins years since as I said we all know how badly the Habs drafted in the '90's outside of '98.

Serge Savard era drafts were also very bad from mid-80's on. Remember the likes of Eric Charron, Brent Bilodeau, Mark Pederson, Lindsay Vallis, Jose Charbonneau etc? Most of these picks weren't even good AHL players. Andrew Cassels was a good pick but we didn't keep him long enough to produce for us.

Serge Savard regime was so damn arrogant. They believed they were above interviewing players and doing character checks pre-draft because they were the Montreal Canadiens.
 

le_sean

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Sure you would in hindsight. But at the time of the draft, you expect your pick to be a success otherwise you wouldn't take them.

Yeah but we have the honour of having Trevor Timmins, so we are more likely to pick a Fucale/Collberg than a Romanov. So I’d gladly trade the pick.
 

calder candidate

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Yeah but we have the honour of having Trevor Timmins, so we are more likely to pick a Fucale/Collberg than a Romanov. So I’d gladly trade the pick.
You don’t trust Timmins with the 2nd but you trust that he make the best pick in the first?
We might also lose out on Debrincat and or Girard... or draft a Tinordi type bust in the first... Collberg was traded for Vanek even if it isn’t a great player it still make it a pretty good value as a pick especially considering all of the contribution all those other picks made to the team...
 

The Great Weal

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Plenty of criticism for his 1st rounders.. but honestly, in the second round is where he's done his best work.
Right, because we have... uhm.. Well we have Lehkonen! And we literally traded down a whole round to pick up a 5th, so it's not exactly outlandish to say that we will do that again. I'll wait for Romanov because I'm 99.9% sure none of us know f*** all about him besides his WJC and they hype is getting insane. You have to go back like 13 years for his last homerun in the 2nd.
 

habsterr

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Assuming were picking #16, past players Timmins and co selected near that pick. 4/5 Busts.

2019 #15 Caufield (omitted)
2011 #17 Beaulieu
2009 #16 Leblanc
2007 #12 Mcdonagh
2006 #20 Fischer
2004 #18 Chipchura
 
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DAChampion

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May 28, 2011
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Assuming were picking #16, past players Timmins and co selected near that pick. 4/5 Busts.

2019 #15 Caufield (omitted)
2011 #17 Beaulieu
2009 #16 Leblanc
2007 #12 Mcdonagh
2006 #20 Fischer
2004 #18 Chipchura

Chipchura suffered severe injuries. Omit.

Leblanc was obviously ruined by the Habs. Omit.

That leaves McDonagh, Beaulieu, and Fischer. 1 home run, 1 ok pick, and one bust out of 3.
 
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salbutera

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Sep 10, 2019
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Okay. I see where you're coming from.

We have different POVs. I see the first two names and think crappy scouting.
Kostitsyn wasn’t just a homerun swing, it was a grand slam swing. Smartest guy in the room syndrome.

Epitome of crappy scouting would be David Fisher
 

montreal

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different people will have different definition of bust. Like we all can agree David Fischer is a bust because he did nothing. Guys like Beaulieu, Tinordi, Galchenyuk, imo are disappointments not busts. Beaulieu has 391 NHL games under his belt, clearly no one should be happy when a 17th OA pick yields a couple decent seasons and turns into a 3rd round pick. You expect a lot more then a 7th D which is what he appears to have become (I haven't seen him since he left) but while I never was high on him and took a lot of shit from posters especially when he was in Hamilton, for a guy with a 10 cent head to stick for almost 400 NHL games is something.

But to me as someone that clearly puts a lot of stock in coaching and development, I look at Beaulieu in a similar vein to that of Galchenyuk. These were young prospects that we rushed to the NHL when they clearly had issues defensively, IQ. Both were progressing in terms of production, Beaulieu went from 9 pts to 19 to 28. I look at it as in the right situation, the right coach, the right D partner, he had the skating and enough skill to be more then a 7th D, maybe he tops out as a 5th D but that would at least have looked better had that been the case.

At the end of the day though it matters little who calls who a bust or a disappointment. Clearly things went very badly for us as an organization under MB, the development, the drafting, coaching, lots of places to point the blame at and so far the only ones held accountable were MT and Lefebvre as the rest either kept their job or were promoted.
 
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Habs Halifax

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Although he did draft Romanov... And PK Subban.

There are hits and misses, but 2nd round hasn't been that bad.

Agreed. The mid to late 1st are the picks that we missed on for more years than we would like! 1st round picks since 2000... look at the disappointments from 10-30 range? 08-15 years are some very bad drafting!

2000: Hainsey (13th)
2001: Komisarek (7th)
2002: Higgins (14th)
2003: Kostitsyn (10th)
2004: Chipchura (18th)
2005: Price (5th)
2006: Fisher (20th)
2007: McDonagh (12th), Patch (22nd)
2008: No pick
2009: Leblanc (18th)
2010: Tinordi (22nd)
2011: Beauleau (17th)
2012: Galchenyuk (3rd)
2013: McCarron (25th)
2014: Scherbak (26th)

2015: Juulsen (26th)
2016: Sergachev (9th)
2017: Poehling (25th)
2018: Kotkaniemi (3rd)
2019: Caufield (15th)

2020: 16th pick...
 

ahmedou

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In this bonus episode, our panelists — Montreal Gazette columnist Pat Hickey, CBC Daybreak Montreal’s Jessica Rusnak and former Canadien Rick Green — along with host Adam Susser discuss how the the Canadiens’ future appears to have brightened at the centre position.
 
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