Trevor Timmins Discussion (Part 10)

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Et le But

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Timmins has been with the organization for 17 years at this point. Except for 2007, how many of the drafts during that time have been a huge hit?

I can't stand his narrow obsession with US high school picks, but the bigger concern is how many first round whiffs we had during this period. The best young talent on this team is currently the guy Timmins didn't draft.
 
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montreal

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Whats interesting is there have been excellent Swedes and Russians at those spots though, two places Timmins' scouting has been just brutal.

Rockstrom has been our Swedish scout since 2011 up until the Norlinder pick, so I wonder how much of that is on him. Does Timmins give him too much say? But it's also on MB as well as they should have fired the guy after he pushed for MB to trade for a 7th round pick so we could draft Henrikson and his record picking Swedes for us since then. Granted they did go out and hire a Swedish scout in 2019 at least. What a shit show it's been hiring that guy as our Swedish picks under him and the best one so far is DLR. yikes.
 
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le_sean

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Whats interesting is there have been excellent Swedes and Russians at those spots though, two places Timmins' scouting has been just brutal.

It’s a good spot to take players from those countries that have talent but maybe aren’t getting the icetime or proper linemates to showcase that talent at the age of 17/18.
 

Lafleurs Guy

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Timmins has been with the organization for 17 years at this point. Except for 2007, how many of the drafts during that time have been a huge hit?

I can't stand his narrow obsession with US high school picks, but the bigger concern is how many first round whiffs we had during this period. The best young talent on this team is currently the guy Timmins didn't draft.
He did fine until MB showed up. Then we tanked.

I'm okay if we move on from him but MB seriously messed up this franchise. I'd have no qualms taking Timmins if I were in another organization as well.
 

yianik

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Rockstrom has been our Swedish scout since 2011 up until the Norlinder pick, so I wonder how much of that is on him. Does Timmins give him too much say? But it's also on MB as well as they should have fired the guy after he pushed for MB to trade for a 7th round pick so we could draft Henrikson and his record picking Swedes for us since then. Granted they did go out and hire a Swedish scout in 2019 at least. What a shit show it's been hiring that guy as our Swedish picks under him and the best one so far is DLR. yikes.

The last really good Swedish player we drafted was in 1979, Mats Naslund. Forty two years. Seriously , how can you be unable to draft a good hockey player from Sweden in 42 years ?
 

Forsead

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Timmins record when drafting in the late first round is bad and should have him fired. This is a prime method to gain assets for mediocre/playoffs teams. I took the time to update an old post from an analysis I did previously.

Since he took over in 2003 and until 2015 draft, I counted an average of 4.385 players on the last 15 spots of each year draft (which mean an average of 0.292 by spot) that became a "significant" player for an NHL team. What I mean by a "significant" player is either a good goalie, a top 3 Defenseman or a top 6 forward with some consistency, well a guy that is an asset and has some value for a good chunk of his career. I did not count after 2015, because IMO it's still too early to tell. Also, I considered that spots 16 to 30 are late first round. I know this discount Cole Caufield, but that also discount lots of sucessfull NHL player and we need to draw a line somewhere.

Between 2003 to 2017, Habs had a chance of taking 11 players as late first rounder. let's look at them:

2004 - Kyle Chipchura : 4th line center, so no;
2006 - David Fisher : bust, so no;
2007 - Max Pacioretty : YES;
2009 - Louis Leblanc : bust, so no;
2010 - Jarred Tinordi : bust, so no;
2011 - Nathan Beaulieu : bust, so no;
2013 - Michael McCarron : bust, so no;
2014 - Nikita Scherbak : bust, so no;
2015 - Noah Juulsen : bust/injuries, so no
2017 – Ryan Poehling : too early to tell;
2020 – Kaiden Guhle : too early to tell;

So as of right now, there's only 1 player out of 11 and if it doesn't get better this is not simply mediocre, but really below average (the average would be 0.292 x 11 = 3.212 players).

Yes Timmins did some good picks and some late round steals, but his record in the late first round is killing the Habs depth and bargaining power.


Here's what I considered:

2003 : Zach Parise, Ryan Getzlaf, Brent Burns, Ryan Kesler, Mike Richards, Corey Perry = 6
2004 : Travis Zajac, Wojtek Wolski, Andrej Meszaros, Cory Schneider, Mike Green = 5
2005 : Martin Hanzal, Tuukka Rask, T.J. Oshie, Andrew Cogliano, Matt Niskanen, Steve Downie = 6
2006 : Chris Stewart, Claude Giroux, Semyon Varlamov, Patrik Berglund, Nick Foligno = 5
2007 : Max Pacioretty, Mikael Backlund, David Perron = 3
2008 : Jake Gardiner, Jordan Eberle, John Carlson, Tyler Ennis, Del Zotto = 5
2009 : Nick Leddy, Chris Kreider, Marcus Johansson, Kyle Palmieri = 4
2010 : Vladimir Tarasenko, Nick Bjugstad, Kevin Hayes, Evgeny Kuznetsov, Charlie Coyle, Brock Nelson = 6
2011 : Oscar Klefbom, Rickard Rakell, Phillip Danault, Vladimir Namestnikov = 4
2012 : Tomas Hertl, Teuvo Teravainen, Andrei Vasilevskiy, Olli Maatta, Brady Skjei, Tanner Pearson = 6
2013 : Anotny Mantha, Andre Burakovsky, Shea Theodore = 3
2014 : Travis Sanheim, Alex Tuch, Tony DeAngelo (I know, I know), David Pastrnak, Nick Schmaltz, Kasperi Kapanen, Jared McCann, Adrian Kempe, Robby Fabbri = 9
2015 : Matthew Barzal, Kyle Connor, Thomas Chabot, Brock Boeser, Travis Konecny, Anthony Beauvillier, Joel Eriksson Ek = 7

6+5+6+5+3+3+4+6+4+6+3+9+7 = 57 "significant" players
57 players / 13 drafts = 4.385
4.385 / 15 spots = 0.292 chance of drafting a "significant" player with a late first round draft pick on average.

Some bordeline guys like Namestnikov could be discussed. Of course, we will need to still wait with the 2016 draft and beyond as it is still early. Also, some 2014-2015 guys might fall, I project theses players to stay good.

Right now, the Habs are confirmed IMO at 1/9 = 0.111, this mean that the Habs are bad and let’s hope they get to league average with Poehling and Guhle at 3/11 = 0.273.
I know this is far from a perfect statistical analysis, but low first round is where the Habs draft the most often and should be a prime method to gain assets.
 
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Whitesnake

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One name I would look at for the head scouting job....Jerome Mesonaro. Yeah, Q related. Gave a chance to Gourde with Victo. Alex Beaucage in the 3rd round in 2019, awesome pick. Barron last year, I would probably haven't pick, but he will end up a great pick.

7 years as scout in the Q
9 years as GM in the Q
7 years as scout for the AVS.
 

26Mats

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Timmins record when drafting in the late first round is bad and should have him fired. This is a prime method to gain assets for mediocre/playoffs teams. I took the time to update an old post from an analysis I did previously.

Since he took over in 2003 and until 2015 draft, I counted an average of 4.385 players on the last 15 spots of each year draft (which mean an average of 0.292 by spot) that became a "significant" player for an NHL team. What I mean by a "significant" player is either a good goalie, a top 3 Defenseman or a top 6 forward with some consistency, well a guy that is an asset and has some value for a good chunk of his career. I did not count after 2015, because IMO it's still too early to tell. Also, I considered that spots 16 to 30 are late first round. I know this discount Cole Caufield, but that also discount lots of sucessfull NHL player and we need to draw a line somewhere.

Between 2003 to 2017, Habs had a chance of taking 11 players as late first rounder. let's look at them:

2004 - Kyle Chipchura : 4th line center, so no;
2006 - David Fisher : bust, so no;
2007 - Max Pacioretty : YES;
2009 - Louis Leblanc : bust, so no;
2010 - Jarred Tinordi : bust, so no;
2011 - Nathan Beaulieu : bust, so no;
2013 - Michael McCarron : bust, so no;
2014 - Nikita Scherbak : bust, so no;
2015 - Noah Juulsen : bust/injuries, so no
2017 – Ryan Poehling : too early to tell;
2020 – Kaiden Guhle : too early to tell;

So as of right now, there's only 1 player out of 11 and if it doesn't get better this is not simply mediocre, but really below average (the average would be 0.292 x 11 = 3.212 players).

Yes Timmins did some good picks and some late round steals, but his record in the late first round is killing the Habs depth and bargaining power.


Here's what I considered:

2003 : Zach Parise, Ryan Getzlaf, Brent Burns, Ryan Kesler, Mike Richards, Corey Perry = 6
2004 : Travis Zajac, Wojtek Wolski, Andrej Meszaros, Cory Schneider, Mike Green = 5
2005 : Martin Hanzal, Tuukka Rask, T.J. Oshie, Andrew Cogliano, Matt Niskanen, Steve Downie = 6
2006 : Chris Stewart, Claude Giroux, Semyon Varlamov, Patrik Berglund, Nick Foligno = 5
2007 : Max Pacioretty, Mikael Backlund, David Perron = 3
2008 : Jake Gardiner, Jordan Eberle, John Carlson, Tyler Ennis, Del Zotto = 5
2009 : Nick Leddy, Chris Kreider, Marcus Johansson, Kyle Palmieri = 4
2010 : Vladimir Tarasenko, Nick Bjugstad, Kevin Hayes, Evgeny Kuznetsov, Charlie Coyle, Brock Nelson = 6
2011 : Oscar Klefbom, Rickard Rakell, Phillip Danault, Vladimir Namestnikov = 4
2012 : Tomas Hertl, Teuvo Teravainen, Andrei Vasilevskiy, Olli Maatta, Brady Skjei, Tanner Pearson = 6
2013 : Anotny Mantha, Andre Burakovsky, Shea Theodore = 3
2014 : Travis Sanheim, Alex Tuch, Tony DeAngelo (I know, I know), David Pastrnak, Nick Schmaltz, Kasperi Kapanen, Jared McCann, Adrian Kempe, Robby Fabbri = 9
2015 : Matthew Barzal, Kyle Connor, Thomas Chabot, Brock Boeser, Travis Konecny, Anthony Beauvillier, Joel Eriksson Ek = 7

6+5+6+5+3+3+4+6+4+6+3+9+7 = 57 "significant" players
57 players / 13 drafts = 4.385
4.385 / 15 spots = 0.292 chance of drafting a "significant" player with a late first round draft pick on average.

Some bordeline guys like Namestnikov could be discussed. Of course, we will need to still wait with the 2016 draft and beyond as it is still early. Also, some 2014-2015 guys might fall, I project theses players to stay good.

Right now, the Habs are confirmed IMO at 1/9 = 0.111, this mean that the Habs are bad and let’s hope they get to league average with Poehling and Guhle at 3/11 = 0.273.
I know this is far from a perfect statistical analysis, but low first round is where the Habs draft the most often and should be a prime method to gain assets.

I don't like what Timmins has done at forward in general, but do like his record for D and Goalies.

So yeah Timmins needs Guhle and Poehling to be average. If Noah Juulsen comes around that would also help.

Good thing he's been good in the lottery...
 
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Forsead

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I don't like what Timmins has done at forward in general, but do like his record for D and Goalies.

So yeah Timmins needs Guhle and Poehling to be average. If Noah Juulsen comes around that would also help.

Good thing he's been good in the lottery...

I do agree that normally he does good with higher picks, but I would bet that's also the case for a lot of others HS.
 

Sh4ded

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Biceps Timmins needs to go with Bergy open a gym somewhere and leave Habs to a real talent evaluator who focuses more on his job than his physical appearance. Im sorry but if you compare teams in the playoffs all of their picks are playing. We have been in a drought for too long which hurts us now.
 
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dcyhabs

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Timmins record when drafting in the late first round is bad and should have him fired. This is a prime method to gain assets for mediocre/playoffs teams. I took the time to update an old post from an analysis I did previously.

Since he took over in 2003 and until 2015 draft, I counted an average of 4.385 players on the last 15 spots of each year draft (which mean an average of 0.292 by spot) that became a "significant" player for an NHL team. What I mean by a "significant" player is either a good goalie, a top 3 Defenseman or a top 6 forward with some consistency, well a guy that is an asset and has some value for a good chunk of his career. I did not count after 2015, because IMO it's still too early to tell. Also, I considered that spots 16 to 30 are late first round. I know this discount Cole Caufield, but that also discount lots of sucessfull NHL player and we need to draw a line somewhere.

Between 2003 to 2017, Habs had a chance of taking 11 players as late first rounder. let's look at them:

2004 - Kyle Chipchura : 4th line center, so no;
2006 - David Fisher : bust, so no;
2007 - Max Pacioretty : YES;
2009 - Louis Leblanc : bust, so no;
2010 - Jarred Tinordi : bust, so no;
2011 - Nathan Beaulieu : bust, so no;
2013 - Michael McCarron : bust, so no;
2014 - Nikita Scherbak : bust, so no;
2015 - Noah Juulsen : bust/injuries, so no
2017 – Ryan Poehling : too early to tell;
2020 – Kaiden Guhle : too early to tell;

So as of right now, there's only 1 player out of 11 and if it doesn't get better this is not simply mediocre, but really below average (the average would be 0.292 x 11 = 3.212 players).

Yes Timmins did some good picks and some late round steals, but his record in the late first round is killing the Habs depth and bargaining power.


Here's what I considered:

2003 : Zach Parise, Ryan Getzlaf, Brent Burns, Ryan Kesler, Mike Richards, Corey Perry = 6
2004 : Travis Zajac, Wojtek Wolski, Andrej Meszaros, Cory Schneider, Mike Green = 5
2005 : Martin Hanzal, Tuukka Rask, T.J. Oshie, Andrew Cogliano, Matt Niskanen, Steve Downie = 6
2006 : Chris Stewart, Claude Giroux, Semyon Varlamov, Patrik Berglund, Nick Foligno = 5
2007 : Max Pacioretty, Mikael Backlund, David Perron = 3
2008 : Jake Gardiner, Jordan Eberle, John Carlson, Tyler Ennis, Del Zotto = 5
2009 : Nick Leddy, Chris Kreider, Marcus Johansson, Kyle Palmieri = 4
2010 : Vladimir Tarasenko, Nick Bjugstad, Kevin Hayes, Evgeny Kuznetsov, Charlie Coyle, Brock Nelson = 6
2011 : Oscar Klefbom, Rickard Rakell, Phillip Danault, Vladimir Namestnikov = 4
2012 : Tomas Hertl, Teuvo Teravainen, Andrei Vasilevskiy, Olli Maatta, Brady Skjei, Tanner Pearson = 6
2013 : Anotny Mantha, Andre Burakovsky, Shea Theodore = 3
2014 : Travis Sanheim, Alex Tuch, Tony DeAngelo (I know, I know), David Pastrnak, Nick Schmaltz, Kasperi Kapanen, Jared McCann, Adrian Kempe, Robby Fabbri = 9
2015 : Matthew Barzal, Kyle Connor, Thomas Chabot, Brock Boeser, Travis Konecny, Anthony Beauvillier, Joel Eriksson Ek = 7

6+5+6+5+3+3+4+6+4+6+3+9+7 = 57 "significant" players
57 players / 13 drafts = 4.385
4.385 / 15 spots = 0.292 chance of drafting a "significant" player with a late first round draft pick on average.

Some bordeline guys like Namestnikov could be discussed. Of course, we will need to still wait with the 2016 draft and beyond as it is still early. Also, some 2014-2015 guys might fall, I project theses players to stay good.

Right now, the Habs are confirmed IMO at 1/9 = 0.111, this mean that the Habs are bad and let’s hope they get to league average with Poehling and Guhle at 3/11 = 0.273.
I know this is far from a perfect statistical analysis, but low first round is where the Habs draft the most often and should be a prime method to gain assets.

It's hard to take this seriously when many of the players you consider were drafted before the habs actually had a pick. You can use that as an argument that Bergevin should have sold for picks more often, but it's hard to say they should have picked Barzal, Chabot, Tuch, Deangelo, etc. when they didn't have a pick before they were taken. I'm not sure I'd want Jake Gardiner but the habs didn't have a pick early enough to take him. Timmins is far from perfect but he can't be expected to pick players who were already taken by another team before he had a pick.

Some of the picks were weak, Fisher was inexcusable, but some were acceptable. Beaulieu was good and would have been better if they'd been able to get through to him, on or off the ice. I'm not thrilled with Tinordi or McCarron or some others but the drafts were getting pretty thin by then, more darts on a dartboard than careful planning. Late picks in shallow drafts are tough.

It would be great if the habs would focus, hire a large scouting team, a large analytics team, evaluate performance from everyone (compare picks later, compare lists vs how players worked out, check performance and consistency), but they are not at a point where they just need to tell people they are crap, fire them, and hire some random guy.
 

Whitesnake

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They missed the mark in the Q BIG TIME in 2019. Nathan freakin Légaré....We went with Struble and Norlinder. But not only that....AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, 'cause there are chances Struble and Norlinder makes it (though I do have my reservations), Pittsburgh trades 3 picks to get him. To get that 3rd rounder, Pittsburgh trades their 4th, 5th and 7th. We actually could have offered SO much more. Easily. Offer your own 3rd (that we used on Fairbrother) and 2 out of our 3 5th rounders that we went with Dichow, Pitlick and Leguerrier. Arizona obviously says yes.

If you have any sense of what the Q offers, there is NO reasons why you would have left this guy go. No way. And you will soon see Légaré make his mark in the NHL. And I can't wait to see what Beaucage will do in Colorado and what Cakjovic will do in Tampa....

So don't believe in the Q all you want, but believe that this organization is NOT doing everything they can to improve.

Strangely, the same people who wants to believe that this organization will left no stone unturned for GM and coach....couldn't care less if we do so in scouting.....
 

Toene

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They missed the mark in the Q BIG TIME in 2019. Nathan freakin Légaré....We went with Struble and Norlinder. But not only that....AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, 'cause there are chances Struble and Norlinder makes it (though I do have my reservations), Pittsburgh trades 3 picks to get him. To get that 3rd rounder, Pittsburgh trades their 4th, 5th and 7th. We actually could have offered SO much more. Easily. Offer your own 3rd (that we used on Fairbrother) and 2 out of our 3 5th rounders that we went with Dichow, Pitlick and Leguerrier. Arizona obviously says yes.

If you have any sense of what the Q offers, there is NO reasons why you would have left this guy go. No way. And you will soon see Légaré make his mark in the NHL. And I can't wait to see what Beaucage will do in Colorado and what Cakjovic will do in Tampa....

So don't believe in the Q all you want, but believe that this organization is NOT doing everything they can to improve.

Strangely, the same people who wants to believe that this organization will left no stone unturned for GM and coach....couldn't care less if we do so in scouting.....
I often read here about how we "limit" ourselves by hiring Francos. I don't want to jump-start a debate on this, I definitely understand why some people think this way and respect it even if I disagree.
But if you're gonna point this out... How about limiting ourselves to one middling headscout for 18 years?

In the whole world, there's nobody else who could be tried in his place? No one?
That's way worse than choosing only francophone, that's forbidding yourself to even begin to think about considering another single candidate. What do the "we only want to pick the candidates from the best of the best!" think of sticking with a mediocre guy for close to 2 decades?
 
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rahad

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Biceps Timmins needs to go with Bergy open a gym somewhere and leave Habs to a real talent evaluator who focuses more on his job than his physical appearance. Im sorry but if you compare teams in the playoffs all of their picks are playing. We have been in a drought for too long which hurts us now.

Capture_d%C3%A9cran_le_2019-06-02_%C3%A0_17.34.10.png
 

yianik

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In this draft we could have taken this guy, or in that draft him. The main point is over time, you have to regularly draft guys who become top 6F and top 3D, starting goalie. You have to, to be a contender. We have not. Now if KK, CC, Romanov, another D, a winger , turn into top players, then okay TT will be back to level. But thats what he needs to have, about 5 top end guys.

In terms of the Q, forget for a minute it's Montreal. The Q hockey production machine needs serious work, but it still produces top players. How can the Habs just not find good players from the Q ? I don't mean the last few years, I mean decades.

And Sweden ? 1979, Naslund, last good pick. WTH is up with that ?

As has been mentioned, TT has a thing for American leagues. Hasn't worked out too great for a long time, except hopefully CC, maybe Poehling.

So for me, it's just a big picture thing. So few good players drafted, so few Hab drafted players on the team, and the 0 for decades from the Q and Sweden , especially Sweden , is ridiculous and is not ok.
 

Whitesnake

If you rebuild, they will come.
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I often read here about how we "limit" ourselves by hiring Francos. I don't want to jump-start a debate on this, I definitely understand why some people think this way and respect it even if I disagree.
But if you're gonna point this out... How about limiting ourselves to one middling headscout for 18 years?

In the whole world, there's nobody else who could be tried in his place? No one?
That's way worse than choosing only francophone, that's forbidding yourself to even begin to think about considering another single candidate. What do the "we only want to pick the candidates from the best of the best!" think of sticking with a mediocre guy for close to 2 decades?

That's an excellent point. Just imagine if that head scout would be a francophone....how we would hear and ready how we CLEARLY don't go out of our way to find the best candidate because of ''obvious'' reasons......We had one guy...he seems to be a good pal...does an okay job...and that's it. There's just nobody else.

Awesome point. I'd triple like you if I could.
 
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Whitesnake

If you rebuild, they will come.
Jan 5, 2003
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In this draft we could have taken this guy, or in that draft him. The main point is over time, you have to regularly draft guys who become top 6F and top 3D, starting goalie. You have to, to be a contender. We have not. Now if KK, CC, Romanov, another D, a winger , turn into top players, then okay TT will be back to level. But thats what he needs to have, about 5 top end guys.

In terms of the Q, forget for a minute it's Montreal. The Q hockey production machine needs serious work, but it still produces top players. How can the Habs just not find good players from the Q ? I don't mean the last few years, I mean decades.

And Sweden ? 1979, Naslund, last good pick. WTH is up with that ?

As has been mentioned, TT has a thing for American leagues. Hasn't worked out too great for a long time, except hopefully CC, maybe Poehling.

So for me, it's just a big picture thing. So few good players drafted, so few Hab drafted players on the team, and the 0 for decades from the Q and Sweden , especially Sweden , is ridiculous and is not ok.

Yep to all of it. Q has been underscouted and we are missing prospects out of it. Whether drafted players...or even non-drafted players. How in the world do you miss undrafted players? When Timmins goes with his McCagg type of swag with his infamous ''not my fault if the guy wasn't there anymore' or ''I would have picked him if I would have had the chance'' f***ing bogus remarks...., how do you explain the Gourde? The Marchessault? The Barré-Boulet? The Myers? etc. And how about like I said before the Nathan Légaré?

AS far as the american league I love myself.....it's overblown. The great '' but we have 4 years to evaluate'', as of today, it benefitted us with Jake Evans. That's it. Every other American players were either signed before the first 2 years or just let go. So the famous it gives us more time to evaluate is bogus and never benefitted us in any way except for Evans...and we will see with Harris.
 

Lafleurs Guy

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They missed the mark in the Q BIG TIME in 2019. Nathan freakin Légaré....We went with Struble and Norlinder. But not only that....AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, 'cause there are chances Struble and Norlinder makes it (though I do have my reservations), Pittsburgh trades 3 picks to get him. To get that 3rd rounder, Pittsburgh trades their 4th, 5th and 7th. We actually could have offered SO much more. Easily. Offer your own 3rd (that we used on Fairbrother) and 2 out of our 3 5th rounders that we went with Dichow, Pitlick and Leguerrier. Arizona obviously says yes.

If you have any sense of what the Q offers, there is NO reasons why you would have left this guy go. No way. And you will soon see Légaré make his mark in the NHL. And I can't wait to see what Beaucage will do in Colorado and what Cakjovic will do in Tampa....

So don't believe in the Q all you want, but believe that this organization is NOT doing everything they can to improve.

Strangely, the same people who wants to believe that this organization will left no stone unturned for GM and coach....couldn't care less if we do so in scouting.....
Legare was a 3rd round pick wasn’t he? I mean why not rip teams for not drafting Lidstrom?
 

Whitesnake

If you rebuild, they will come.
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Legare was a 3rd round pick wasn’t he? I mean why not rip teams for not drafting Lidstrom?

As in Niklas Lidstrom? Well...teams WERE ripped for not doing it. And then, scouting wasn't what it was then then it is now don't you think? You are really comparing those 2 eras? 1989 to 2019? And if Pittsburgh thought it deserved to send 3 picks for him....you don't think we could have had the wisdom to do so? Was that type of trade done for the Wings to get their hands on Lidstrom?

Point is, Timmins and Cie says that at equal talent, they will look at the local talent. It's f***ing bogus. They don't care about the Q. They don't want Q prospects. By doing so, they do NOT do everything they can to build a better team.

Who don't see the difference between Lidstrom and Légaré? ONe from benefitting from subpar drafting in that part of the world, in an era where scouting wasn't what it is now and an other benefitting from a subpar scouting from the Montreal Canadiens in their own backyard in a scouting era that is way better than it was before?
 

Lafleurs Guy

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As in Niklas Lidstrom? Well...teams WERE ripped for not doing it. And then, scouting wasn't what it was then then it is now don't you think? You are really comparing those 2 eras? 1989 to 2019? And if Pittsburgh thought it deserved to send 3 picks for him....you don't think we could have had the wisdom to do so? Was that type of trade done for the Wings to get their hands on Lidstrom?

Point is, Timmins and Cie says that at equal talent, they will look at the local talent. It's f***ing bogus. They don't care about the Q. They don't want Q prospects. By doing so, they do NOT do everything they can to build a better team.

Who don't see the difference between Lidstrom and Légaré? ONe from benefitting from subpar drafting in that part of the world, in an era where scouting wasn't what it is now and an other benefitting from a subpar scouting from the Montreal Canadiens in their own backyard in a scouting era that is way better than it was before?
3rd rounder... eras don’t matter.
 

Whitesnake

If you rebuild, they will come.
Jan 5, 2003
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36,805
3rd rounder... eras don’t matter.

What's your point anyway? We can only talk about 1st rounders? Why are you in a Timmins thread if you're not interested in drafts?

I couldn't care less who doesn't pick who. But I care who does.

Why in the world are you satisfied because OTHER teams have passed on players? It really helps you sleep at night? What I know is that Pittsburgh TRADED to get the kid. He was not a top 20 pick. But he was CLEARLY important enough so that they'd give 3 picks for him. Something we should have done. But when you don't pay attention to a league, that's what happens.
 
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Lafleurs Guy

Guuuuuuuy!
Jul 20, 2007
75,221
45,107
What's your point anyway? We can only talk about 1st rounders? Why are you in a Timmins thread if you're not interested in drafts?

I couldn't care less who doesn't pick who. But I care who does.

Why in the world are you satisfied because OTHER teams have passed on players? It really helps you sleep at night? What I know is that Pittsburgh TRADED to get the kid. He was not a top 20 pick. But he was CLEARLY important enough so that they'd give 3 picks for him. Something we should have done. But when you don't pay attention to a league, that's what happens.
My point is that it’s silly to cherry-pick a 3rd rounder and then criticize a scout for not taking him.
 

dinodebino

Registered User
Sep 27, 2017
16,002
28,199
In this draft we could have taken this guy, or in that draft him. The main point is over time, you have to regularly draft guys who become top 6F and top 3D, starting goalie. You have to, to be a contender. We have not. Now if KK, CC, Romanov, another D, a winger , turn into top players, then okay TT will be back to level. But thats what he needs to have, about 5 top end guys.

In terms of the Q, forget for a minute it's Montreal. The Q hockey production machine needs serious work, but it still produces top players. How can the Habs just not find good players from the Q ? I don't mean the last few years, I mean decades.

And Sweden ? 1979, Naslund, last good pick. WTH is up with that ?

As has been mentioned, TT has a thing for American leagues. Hasn't worked out too great for a long time, except hopefully CC, maybe Poehling.

So for me, it's just a big picture thing. So few good players drafted, so few Hab drafted players on the team, and the 0 for decades from the Q and Sweden , especially Sweden , is ridiculous and is not ok.
Because Hulk despises the Q.
 
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