Trevor Timmins Discussion (Part 10)

[montreal]

Going to be fun watching KK, Romanov, Caufield on the Habs in a week or so

 

[Goldenhands]

Leblanc was drafted right where he was projected. If he was drafted elsewhere he'd probably have had a decent career.

Our development sucked. Full stop. And you only have to look at what's happening with KK to see this. It was like a light turned on as soon as that coach went away. We had an entire generation of prospects f***ed over by idiots.

Does that mean that Timmins is off the hook? No. But you can't ignore the absolute shit we've had here and sluff it off on drafting. Some of us predicted that it would improve when those dumbasses moved on and that's exactly what I think we're going to see. It's already happening now.

What have Leblanc, Scherbak, McCarron done once away from our organisation? Nothing. If any of the kids drafted by Timmins had a decent carreer with another organisation, you could agitate a flag, but it hasnt happened, period. Lefebvre had very little to work with, few drafted players and average AHLers to surround them.

Now that's a different story, we have ton of drafted players on the team and they are surrounded by better AHL vets like Belzile, Veilleux, Leskinen, Weal, Olofsson, Blandisi ect... The team is simply much better on paper and we have better internal competition, what is helping Bouchard to have a such grip on his team...

Edit: Caufield could also join Primeau, Ylonen, Poehling, Brook, Fleury, Harvey-Pinard, Mysak, Vejdemo, Hillis ect, all drafted players on the team right now...

 

[26Mats]

Going to be fun watching KK, Romanov, Caufield on the Habs in a week or so

And Poehling, Ylonen, Brook, Fleury, and Primeau in Laval.

 

[DAChampion]

Within a year, posters will be writing that Timmins' deserves no credit for selecting Kotkaniemi, they will claim that he was the obvious choice.

 

[HotPie]

Within a year, posters will be writing that Timmins' deserves no credit for selecting Kotkaniemi, they will claim that he was the obvious choice.

It'll be interesting to see what the defense will be if Kotkaniemi doesn't pan out or live up to expectations...which he's currently just as likely to do as he is to live up to expectations.

 

[MaynardJames]

It literally takes 2 seconds to check on google for the 2015 list.
I invite you to go check and judge for yourself.

I did and I have not seen any savior that would have made us a better team. Garland is the only good looking pick after Vejdermo, good for Arizona but still not worth firing Timmins.

 

[montreal]

Within a year, posters will be writing that Timmins' deserves no credit for selecting Kotkaniemi, they will claim that he was the obvious choice.

of course since look at the Sergachev pick. Only 6 players from that draft have more points. Matthews, Laine, Tkachuk, DeBrincat, Keller, PLD. Yet you see many say it was a given, or it was an ok pick etc... Yes he's on TB, but he's 22, has over 100 assists, 128 pts and nearing 300 games. He's going to rack up a ton of points in his career.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

To answer your question, yes I think they still all become the players they became, especially McD and Subban who just took 1 year in the pros to be solid.

Under Therrien? No way.

Subban would've been benched after every mistake just as Beaulieu was. MT hated PK and that was after he won a Norris. Imagine if he'd been a raw rookie. At a minimum his career would've been badly stunted. Max? Not MT's kind of player either. Galchenyuk was never able to secure a 1st line spot despite being the most productive memeber on the team. How would it have been any different for a non-physical player like Max?

McD had the good fortune to be traded away. Not surprising he became successful.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It'll be interesting to see what the defense will be if Kotkaniemi doesn't pan out or live up to expectations...which he's currently just as likely to do as he is to live up to expectations.

Have you not noticed the night and day situation for him once we canned Julien? Again, not coincidence.

 

[HotPie]

Have you not noticed the night and day situation for him once we canned Julien? Again, not coincidence.

I notice someone showing glimpses of potential, just like Galchenyuk, but I don't really see someone who's guaranteed to live up to the expectation of being a 3rd overall pick. It's still way to early to have any clear picture about where Kotkaniemi will end up, and he could just as easily end up busting as being a successful quality NHLer.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I notice someone showing glimpses of potential, just like Galchenyuk, but I don't really see someone who's guaranteed to live up to the expectation of being a 3rd overall pick. It's still way to early to have any clear picture about where Kotkaniemi will end up, and he could just as easily end up busting as being a successful quality NHLer.

Fair enough.

But it's not too early to see that we were holding him back. It's not too early to see that our "development style" was stunting his progress. THAT is clear as day. And CJ was actually a lot better than MT was.

 

[Habsrule]

I notice someone showing glimpses of potential, just like Galchenyuk, but I don't really see someone who's guaranteed to live up to the expectation of being a 3rd overall pick. It's still way to early to have any clear picture about where Kotkaniemi will end up, and he could just as easily end up busting as being a successful quality NHLer.

I don’t really think that it is fair to say that someone was a third overall pick and have to live up to those lofty expectations. Not every draft is equal in terms of third overall will be a star player.

I follow the draft pretty closely and the 2018 draft was deep 1-12 but after #1 and #2 it was wide open. Tkachuk was drafted at #4 but his NCAA stats were not overly impressive at 40-8-23-31. Hayton went next at #5 and I was not a fan of his. Zadina went at #6 and he was my top want. I figured he was going to be a sure fire 30 goal scorer in the NHL. Hughes went next and we can all agree that the Canucks got a great player here. I remember him being labelled as a boom or bust type of pick though with how small he is. Then the next players were Boqvist, Kravtsov, Bouchard, Wahlstrom and Dobson. I do remember a lot of rumblings that the Habs liked Dobson but didn’t want to draft him up at #3.

So all and all I will say that only a few years after the draft that Kotkaniemi is the fifth best player from the draft. Dahlin and Svechnikov were both picked ahead of him. Tkachuk and Hughes have leapfrogged over him but both had question marks at the draft.

 

[Adam Michaels]

I know you're being sarcastic but I would do that without hesitation. He has all the skills and good size, had mental issues but seems to have worked them out. I would most defiantly bring him back and see where he is with Laval. Go from there.

I can't help but wonder how Scherbak would have turned out if his pro career started with Joel Bouchard rather than with Lefebvre.

 

[Vachon23]

I can't help but wonder how Scherbak would have turned out if his pro career started with Joel Bouchard rather than with Lefebvre.

Probably the same. Bouchard as a lot of qualities but he can’t transplant a desire to be better at someone

 

[Habs13]

I can't help but wonder how Scherbak would have turned out if his pro career started with Joel Bouchard rather than with Lefebvre.

I think it's mostly on Sherbak, if I'm honest. Some guys just lack maturity at young ages. I know I did. You get drafted, you're highly spoken of... some guys just think the world is their oyster. He had to get knocked down hard to see where he went wrong. Question now is can he climb back. We'll see. I'd give him that chance, Worse case, he becomes a key cog on my AHL team. There are vets in Laval that I'd let go in favor of Scherbak!

 

[Adam Michaels]

Probably the same. Bouchard as a lot of qualities but he can’t transplant a desire to be better at someone

I think he would be able to get something out of Scherbak. It might never have been enough in the end. But I think he would have found something in the kid to unlock.

He was able to help McCarron play better. He had found something in him that helped make him a more complete player.

 

[Adam Michaels]

I think it's mostly on Sherbak, if I'm honest. Some guys just lack maturity at young ages. I know I did. You get drafted, you're highly spoken of... some guys just think the world is their oyster. He had to get knocked down hard to see where he went wrong. Question now is can he climb back. We'll see. I'd give him that chance, Worse case, he becomes a key cog on my AHL team. There are vets in Laval that I'd let go in favor of Scherbak!

He's doing well in Texas this year. 11 pts in 14 GP.

 

[Habs13]

He's doing well in Texas this year. 11 pts in 14 GP.

Pretty decent stats, I'd say. Raises the question about development within the Canadiens system again, doesn't it?

 

[Deebs]

Pretty decent stats, I'd say. Raises the question about development within the Canadiens system again, doesn't it?

Not really. He's been garbage until this year and now that he's 25, he's becoming a decent minor leaguer

 

[Habs13]

Not really. He's been garbage until this year and now that he's 25, he's becoming a decent minor leaguer

If you followed his story at all, you'd know why that is. Also what we've been talking about here.

 

[Treb]

Probably the same. Bouchard as a lot of qualities but he can’t transplant a desire to be better at someone

I think it's mostly on Sherbak, if I'm honest. Some guys just lack maturity at young ages. I know I did. You get drafted, you're highly spoken of... some guys just think the world is their oyster. He had to get knocked down hard to see where he went wrong. Question now is can he climb back. We'll see. I'd give him that chance, Worse case, he becomes a key cog on my AHL team. There are vets in Laval that I'd let go in favor of Scherbak!

Lefebvre too the joy of playing from at least 2 guys (I believe it was Bourque and Addison). There is a non-zero chance he f***ed up Scherbak mental to the point where Bouchard wanted nothing to do with him.

The last two years may have made him reconsider, but haven't watched Texas so don't know. He is 6th in forward scoring on his team and is one of the two in the top6 with a negative +/-, except he has -7 and the 2nd worst is at -2. In fact, Scherbak is tied for worst on the team. Again, it's all boxscore scouting as I'm not going to spend money to watch him.

 

[26Mats]

He's doing well in Texas this year. 11 pts in 14 GP.

Scherbak's bigger problem was the non-offensive parts of the game and his board battles.

And, interviews he didn't even know that was why he didn't make NHL. If he puts his mind to working on those aspects of his game he may be able to get them up to NHL level.

Loved the few go as ls he scored while here. Always real beauties.

 

[Deebs]

If you followed his story at all, you'd know why that is. Also what we've been talking about here.

I guess I missed it. Why is he a bad player?

Seemed like a kid with poor work ethic, a weak compete level and just not a NHL caliber player. Happens to the many players.

 

[Treb]

Not really. He's been garbage until this year and now that he's 25, he's becoming a decent minor leaguer

He was doing pretty good point wise under Lefebvre. The rest of his game however, not so much. This is probably what pissed Bouchard off.

Knowing how Sly was telling guys like McCarron and Leblanc that they don't need top6 time in the AHL because they will be depth NHL player, I wouldn't be surprised if he was telling Scherbak that since he is a potential top6, he doesn't need to learn the defensive side. That would be such a Sly thing to do.

 

[Habs13]

I guess I missed it. Why is he a bad player?

Seemed like a kid with poor work ethic, a weak compete level and just not a NHL caliber player. Happens to the many players.

You have the gist of it. Poor work ethic and bad attitude. Ego. Was said to be uncoachable. He had all the skills you can ask for though. Check out his highlights from when he played with the Habs. He was exciting to watch, but didn't want anything to do with two-way play and made a lot of errors in his defensive play. His problem was all inside his own head. Closed ears.

Edit: Made myself want to go back and see his highlights, so I'll add that to this post.