Are you referring to a particular time period? Because they were a top ten PK last year, which isn't my idea of struggle.
Jake after Crosby just forced him to smoke some marijuana laced with PCP on his first day at training camp.
On the whole 2017 team from the last thread. @cygnus47 @ColePens @Tom Hanks @Honour Over Glory @Scandale du Jour
People need to remember the amount of physicality both CBJ and Caps exacted on the Pens.
CBJ - Very physical punishing team who lost due to depth of the Pens. Games 3 & 4 were battles with one going to OT
WSH - Thought they were the best, but they loaded up on aging slow players for depth, and their exact physicality was how they could cheap shot and try to knock the Pens down a notch or two.
OTT - Got to reap the rewards of the punishment and injuries the Pens absorbed from the fist two rounds and they themselves adopted that physicality play. It almost worked. OTT wasn't really a worthy opponent otherwise, being a wildcard and the only team with a negative differential.
NSH - Was even worse than OTT being the lower wildcard out west. Just two teams that had out worked the top teams. NSH was pretty much built all about their great defense and didn't have the depth to withstand injuries at forward. Their defense was their spearhead to offense.
I think you could say the Pens with their own injuries should be thankful "those teams" were the ones left standing. I don't know after the brutality's from the first two rounds that they stave off top teams, like, playing WSH in the ECF's, or Chicago in the finals. Teams the Pens are more evenly matched against or struggle against in CHI.
The thing that sucks for every rookie for the Penguins for the next few years is that they're going to be compared to John Marino:
Is Drew O’Connor on track to be the 2021 version of John Marino?
The Penguins have had at most 3 rookies outside of Crosby and Malkin in the last 20 years who have had the impact that Marino has had as a rookie. Staal, Maatta and Marino are the only 3 that jump to mind. But every rookie going forward is going to be compared to him.
Fair point.
However, the logicial conclusion to that was not to change our identity after winning TWO CUPS in a row including one WITHOUT our #1 defenseman (who had a CS worthy run the year before) because we got bullied around a little.
We could have tweaked a few things, sure. But the whole "let's go bigger" thing was stupid. Did not help us get passed the Caps the following year in the REAL Cup finals (that series was the real finals in 16-17-18).
I'd add that beating Ottawa involved a lot of heavy physical forechecking to slow down their defence and finally get some zone time.
I dunno. We clearly travelled too far from our identity. But equally - as said by many at the time - expecting to be successful in an identity that everyone in the league was hell bent on stopping was asking a little much. The teams that ended up winning got faster but also stayed heavy. Increasingly I think Rutherford had the right idea but executed it in a very stupid way.
Looks like a 60 goals scorer to me now.
Jake after Crosby just forced him to smoke some marijuana laced with PCP on his first day at training camp.
Agree.
What set the Pens back was weakening their defense, otherwise, I doubt the Pens barely lose against the Caps in 7 games, where again, cheap shots and the usual, had they kept some key players.
Bonino, Daley mainly for 2018.
You are 100% right. You need to constantly evolve to remain at the top. I know people here won't like that example, but that's what the Patriots did; time and time again. When Brady first become the starter, they were a defense first, smash mouth team. In 2007, they became a pass first, high-octane team. In 2010, the re-invented themselves again and switched the a 2-TE offense. After 2014, they slowly rebuilt their defense and when they won last in 2018 they were back to being a run first/defense team (the second half against the Chiefs turned into a shootout... but it is the Chiefs. They smacked Mahomes for 2 and a half quarters).
You adapt and build around your strenghts/the weakness you want to exploit that your opponents have. We did not do that in 2017-18. We went retro because Sid was tired of being bullied. That's essentially all they did and it failed.
Finding guys like Tom Wilson is not easy, but that's the modern day tough guy. Trading for Reaves was dumb as f***. As we saw in the Cup finals between Vegas and Washington... Wilson still did his thing and ignored Reaves... as he should have.
If we want to get nastier, you need to find talented players with an edge. Not easy to find, sure, but that's what you spend assets on... not Ryan f***ing Reaves.
The thing that sucks for every rookie for the Penguins for the next few years is that they're going to be compared to John Marino:
Is Drew O’Connor on track to be the 2021 version of John Marino?
The Penguins have had at most 3 rookies outside of Crosby and Malkin in the last 20 years who have had the impact that Marino has had as a rookie. Staal, Maatta and Marino are the only 3 that jump to mind. But every rookie going forward is going to be compared to him.
I don't think this was intentional though. Cole was leaving. One way or another, he was out. There's more to being on a roster than purely on ice performance. You get into a pissing match with the coach, you are gonna get the boot. Cole wasn't Sid or Geno. Not to mention, Cole was a 2nd pairing capable dman playing on our 3rd pairing. He then got paid like a top 4 which we couldn't have afforded anyway. Hunwick was brought in after a great playoffs for Toronto. Before the concussion, he outplayed Cole on a nightly basis but no one ever seems to remember or acknowledge that. But he came back crap after the concussion and with the emergence of Jake, we sent Hunwick and Sheary away to open up space and money. The mistake was Johnson and then playing catch up to cover. But in theory, JJ brought what he needed...a semi-mobile physical dman. That just did not pan out. We all know. Gudbranson was a wash IMHO. Pearson wasn't doing squat and we needed a dman. Then he was sent out for nothing. Whatever.
Oleksiak was an interesting addition and subtraction. I think he could have worked out well here if given more time. What an odd blurb in our roster history...
Maatta regressed unfortunately and after peaking in 2017, Schultz began to regress too, especially after the devastating ankle injury.
So while we had several guys regressing, we didn't bring in a guy that could reboost the pairings. Daley wanted more money, Cole wasn't staying, Maatta and Schultz were getting worse, no one from the prospect ranks were available. It was a tough spot to be in. Sometimes you have the guys you have and you need to make it work for better or for worse. The lynchpin in 2018 for the defense, IMHO, was Letang being absolute trash for most of the Caps series.
You are 100% right. You need to constantly evolve to remain at the top. I know people here won't like that example, but that's what the Patriots did; time and time again. When Brady first become the starter, they were a defense first, smash mouth team. In 2007, they became a pass first, high-octane team. In 2010, the re-invented themselves again and switched the a 2-TE offense. After 2014, they slowly rebuilt their defense and when they won last in 2018 they were back to being a run first/defense team (the second half against the Chiefs turned into a shootout... but it is the Chiefs. They smacked Mahomes for 2 and a half quarters).
You adapt and build around your strenghts/the weakness you want to exploit that your opponents have. We did not do that in 2017-18. We went retro because Sid was tired of being bullied. That's essentially all they did and it failed.
Finding guys like Tom Wilson is not easy, but that's the modern day tough guy. Trading for Reaves was dumb as f***. As we saw in the Cup finals between Vegas and Washington... Wilson still did his thing and ignored Reaves... as he should have.
If we want to get nastier, you need to find talented players with an edge. Not easy to find, sure, but that's what you spend assets on... not Ryan f***ing Reaves.
Jake???
I would argue Jake had much more impact than Maatta and Marino.
Jake???
Jake???
I would argue Jake had much more impact than Maatta and Marino.
Jake wasn't right out of camp though.
Jake still bounced around a bit. He had a cup of coffee in the AHL in 15-16 and about half the season there the year after before making the jump for good.
I think Empo is more talking about players who came right outta junior or whatever and made the team and stuck for good.