Training Camp Thread Part Two - Drozg didn't make the team

[Darren McCord]

You're right about the impact he made, but I was more referring to people who made the Penguins out of camp.

Ya I see that now. Although if O'Connor makes an impact I think he follows jakes path.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Was not clear on that. I thought he was talking about rookies in general. Still Jake only had 11 games in 15-16. He was a rookie in the AHL in 16-17 too.

He lit the AHL up just as much too.

Oh the guy was still an impact player nearly right out of NCAA just not his very first camp, or whatever. I think the larger point made was that it's incredibly rare for this to happen and sometimes people start talking like it should be expected.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Tom Wilson should never had been able to keep playing after the ZAR instance. After all he had been suspended for leading up to that. It was a joke and that's a huge loss the Caps probably get knocked down a peg because of it. That means AO would need to revert back to his old cheap ways.

It was a joke and it is what happens in the playoffs because the NHL is ran by dinosaurs.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Reaves was who was more or less available at the time. I think the expense - in retrospect, 20/20 vision, etc - was too great and it was an experiment doomed to fail since Sully clearly had no use for him. I'm not willing to fully throw that at Reaves' feet. Vegas had a number of other problems come to a head in that series.

It was a panic move... when they should not have panicked.

We did not need a player like him. No one really does anymore. It was very reactionary because our stars wanted something done about the bullying.

 

[Gurglesons]

Oh the guy was still an impact player nearly right out of NCAA just not his very first camp, or whatever. I think the larger point made was that it's incredibly rare for this to happen and sometimes people start talking like it should be expected.

I think it is incredibly rare for a player to be Jake, but I think with the layoff and how the league (and others) are moving we will see a bunch of young players playing in the NHL sooner than later the next two years.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think it is incredibly rare for a player to be Jake, but I think with the layoff and how the league (and others) are moving we will see a bunch of young players playing in the NHL sooner than later the next two years.

Yeah that makes sense to me. I could completely see that.

Honestly I've always said the conversion rate would be high if dumbass NHL coaches would just trust these young guys a little more. But I guess their asses and jobs are on the line, too.

 

[Ugene Magic]

It was a joke and it is what happens in the playoffs because the NHL is ran by dinosaurs.

He had gotten away with stuff even in the first round with nothing for hit on Wennberg.

He should have been suspended for this before they ever played the Pens.

Nothing...

 

[Scandale du Jour]

He had gotten away with stuff even in the first round with nothing on Wennberg.

He should have been suspended for this before they ever played the Pens.

Nothing...

And then the league has the balls to say that he was never suspended before so...

I mean, how can a dirty player have an "history" when you never punish him and use that excuse all the time

As much as I love the game, I hate a LOT about the macho culture around it... especially in NA.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

What you guys are talking about above is essentially the point where I went from laughing at the Capitals to wholesale hoping they collectively fall into a giant sinkhole never to be seen again.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yeah that makes sense to me. I could completely see that.

Honestly I've always said the conversion rate would be high if dumbass NHL coaches would just trust these young guys a little more. But I guess their asses and jobs are on the line, too.

Sullivan has been about the best I have seen at letting young guys get their shot, and move up the lineup if they prove themselves.

He’s still going to have his warts and blind spots... ZAR, JJ...

I’m also sure it will take people about 2-3 games to wonder wtf CC is in the lineup over Riikola or POJ.

People can hate Sullivan and what not, but in terms of giving young guys their shot and a legit chance, it won’t ever get much better then him.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Sullivan has been about the best I have seen at letting young guys get their shot, and move up the lineup if they prove themselves.

He’s still going to have his warts and blind spots... ZAR, JJ...

I’m also sure it will take people about 2-3 games to wonder wtf CC is in the lineup over Riikola or POJ.

People can hate Sullivan and what not, but in terms of giving young guys their shit and a legit chance, it won’t ever get much better then him.

Yeah I have plenty of what I feel are completely legitimate complaints about Sullivan. But he is indeed undeniably more open minded than the average NHL coach regarding getting young guys into the lineup if they are worthy.

 

[Ugene Magic]

And then the league has the balls to say that he was never suspended before so...

I mean, how can a dirty player have an "history" when you never punish him and use that excuse all the time

As much as I love the game, I hate a LOT about the macho culture around it... especially in NA.

He was suspended before that, and had a couple that should have iced his season.

Pulled straight from his wiki. In red.

He had multiple close calls as well.

Suspensions[edit]

On September 22, 2017, in a pre-season game against St. Louis Blues, Wilson caught forward Robert Thomas with a late hit, resulting in a two pre-season game ban.[26]
The NHL suspended Wilson for the first four games of the regular season for boarding St. Louis rookie forward Sammy Blais during each team's 2017 pre-season finale.[27]
On May 2, 2018, Wilson was suspended from three playoff games due to an illegal check to the head of the Pittsburgh Penguins' Zach Aston-Reese. Aston-Reese was diagnosed with a concussion and a broken jaw.[28]
On October 3, 2018, Wilson was suspended from 20 regular season games as a result of an illegal head hit on Oskar Sundqvist of the St. Louis Blues during a pre-season game.[29] Wilson appealed his suspension at a hearing in New York on October 18, but NHL commissioner Gary Bettman upheld it.[30] Following Bettman's decision, Wilson filed for a third appeal from a neutral arbitrator.[31] On November 13, 2018, his 20-game suspension was reduced to 14, making him eligible to play that night against the Minnesota Wild. Wilson had served 16 games of his suspension. The ruling by Shyam Das allowed him to recoup $378,049 of the $1.26 million he forfeited as part of the suspension.[32]

 

[Scandale du Jour]

He was suspended before that, and had a couple that should have iced his season.

Pulled straight from his wiki. In red.

He had multiple close calls as well.

Yeah, I mixed up Wilson with Ovechkin.

The excuse when Ovechkin does something dirty is always that he was not suspended before/a lot. Lack of history, isolate accident.

If we had lost the series in 09, him not being punished for what he did to Gonchar would STILL be a subject of discussion to this day. Man that was dirty as f***.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yeah I have plenty of what I feel are completely legitimate complaints about Sullivan. But he is indeed undeniably more open minded than the average NHL coach regarding getting young guys into the lineup if they are worthy.

This season is f***ed up with the preseason so I’m not going to get mad about young guys not getting in the lineup to start.

I’m already indifferent about the season anyway, but I get the desire to use vets at first.

Won’t take him long to see who CC really is... and if he doesn’t start sitting when CC goes CC, that’s about when I’ll start to criticize Sullivan.

And make no mistake, CC will be a massive weak link. He is who he is and I hate picking on guys, but I’m not going to lie to this board about him either.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Won’t take him long to see who CC really is... and if he doesn’t start sitting when CC goes CC, that’s about when I’ll start to criticize Sullivan.

Man his decisions re: Schultz and JJ last year already got me to the point where I'm like "hell with this guy." I dunno if I ever saw even Disco do something as doltish as overplay a guy like JJ in two straight playoff catastrophes.

 

[Gurglesons]

This season is f***ed up with the preseason so I’m not going to get mad about young guys not getting in the lineup to start.

I’m already indifferent about the season anyway, but I get the desire to use vets at first.

Won’t take him long to see who CC really is... and if he doesn’t start sitting when CC goes CC, that’s about when I’ll start to criticize Sullivan.

And make no mistake, CC will be a massive weak link. He is who he is and I hate picking on guys, but I’m not going to lie to this board about him either.

Then again we won a cup with Ben Lovejoy as a top four guy.

From my more limited footage of Ceci, he is about on par with Lovejoy in terms of his puck abilities.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Yeah, I mixed up Wilson with Ovechkin.

The excuse when Ovechkin does something dirty is always that he was not suspended before/a lot. Lack of history, isolate accident.

If we had lost the series in 09, him not being punished for what he did to Gonchar would STILL be a subject of discussion to this day. Man that was dirty as f***.

Yeah, hate seeing zeros turned hero's, which was much more prevalent in Wilson's case.

At least AO is a top talent, but why make a hero out of Wilson league wise?

Neanderthal without a brain to understand what he was doing wrong.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

At Lest AO is a top talent, but why make a hero out of Wilson league wise?

Because the league is full of dinosaurs and cretins and they love that shit and wish we'd get back to braining people for sport.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Then again we won a cup with Ben Lovejoy as a top four guy.

From my more limited footage of Ceci, he is about on par with Lovejoy in terms of his puck abilities.

That's a very good comparison. All the way down to not hurting you penalty wise. But he was a good bit more on the negative side than Lovejoy. Taking the team he played for I'd call it a wash.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Man his decisions re: Schultz and JJ last year already got me to the point where I'm like "hell with this guy." I dunno if I ever saw even Disco do something as doltish as overplay a guy like JJ in two straight playoff catastrophes.

I blame JR more, but whatever.

My wife asked me shortly after FA if I felt better about the Pens...

I said JR didn’t do anything really dumb, not like he signed CC.

And we both laughed... until 8 days later.

I was no longer laughing, but she still was...

Then again we won a cup with Ben Lovejoy as a top four guy.

From my more limited footage of Ceci, he is about on par with Lovejoy in terms of his puck abilities.

 

[Gurglesons]

Can't you just remember Ben Lovejoy trying to get the puck out of the zone like 16 times in the 15-16 Caps series. I see a lot of that in Ceci's corner in the future.

 

[SEALBound]

I think Letang was trying to do too much considering the lack of depth on the backend. Cole leaving didn't have to happen at all, at least not then. You don't keep dismantling a defense if you are clamoring for a 3 peat. That whole Brassard thing was BS. The Pens could survive having Reaves around. They screwed up in many ways where you can get whiplash looking back at all the things that transpired.

I think that's a little revisionist. First, "Letang trying to do to much due to lack of depth" is a non-sense statement. Letang is one man and his pairing partner was Dumoulin for the vast majority of his icetime and at the time, Dumo was a top 2 caliber dman. Each time Letang is on the ice, the "lack of depth" would be irrelevant to his on-ice performance. Now, if the lack of depth led to Rudwedel being his partner, that would be a good argument.

Cole wrote his own ticket out of town the same a Kessel did. You're right, it didn't have to happen but it's not like Cole wasn't in charge of his own destiny. And as I said, they didn't "dismantle" the defense. In 2017 the pairings were:

Dumo-Hainsey
Maatta-Schultz
Cole-Daley

In 2018 it was:

Dumoulin-Letang
Oleksiak-Schultz
Maatta-Ruhwedel

So we really only changed out two guys - Cole and Daley. Daley left in free agency and signed at a price we couldn't afford. Cole was sent out for a big 3C piece in Brassard which bolstered the forward depth in a big way. They added Oleksiak. And Rudwedel was brought in from depth. I hardly call that "dismantling" at least by any reasonable terms. Was it better in 2017? Sure. But Daley and Cole also signed for big money in free agency and in a cap world, sometimes you can't keep all of the guys you want. When players leave through necessity, you do your best to rebuild with what you have and what you can get.

Brassard being BS is hindsight. At the time, that was a the slamdunk move that everyone viewed as putting us over the top. Everyone was happy to see Reaves gone as well.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think that's a little revisionist. First, "Letang trying to do to much due to lack of depth" is a non-sense statement. Letang is one man and his pairing partner was Dumoulin for the vast majority of his icetime and at the time, Dumo was a top 2 caliber dman. Each time Letang is on the ice, the "lack of depth" would be irrelevant to his on-ice performance. Now, if the lack of depth led to Rudwedel being his partner, that would be a good argument.

Cole wrote his own ticket out of town the same a Kessel did. You're right, it didn't have to happen but it's not like Cole wasn't in charge of his own destiny. And as I said, they didn't "dismantle" the defense. In 2017 the pairings were:

Dumo-Hainsey
Maatta-Schultz
Cole-Daley

In 2018 it was:

Dumoulin-Letang
Oleksiak-Schultz
Maatta-Ruhwedel

So we really only changed out two guys - Cole and Daley. Daley left in free agency and signed at a price we couldn't afford. Cole was sent out for a big 3C piece in Brassard which bolstered the forward depth in a big way. They added Oleksiak. And Rudwedel was brought in from depth. I hardly call that "dismantling" at least by any reasonable terms. Was it better in 2017? Sure. But Daley and Cole also signed for big money in free agency and in a cap world, sometimes you can't keep all of the guys you want. When players leave through necessity, you do your best to rebuild with what you have and what you can get.

Brassard being BS is hindsight. At the time, that was a the slamdunk move that everyone viewed as putting us over the top. Everyone was happy to see Reaves gone as well.

The real reality was Cole was horrible the majority of the year in 17-18 and was anticipated to cost a lot of money.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Can't you just remember Ben Lovejoy trying to get the puck out of the zone like 16 times in the 15-16 Caps series. I see a lot of that in Ceci's corner in the future.

He was the king of the three line pass, ya.

He could skate though and was solid defensively.

CC is neither of those things.

 

[Darren McCord]

This season is f***ed up with the preseason so I’m not going to get mad about young guys not getting in the lineup to start.

I’m already indifferent about the season anyway, but I get the desire to use vets at first.

Won’t take him long to see who CC really is... and if he doesn’t start sitting when CC goes CC, that’s about when I’ll start to criticize Sullivan.

And make no mistake, CC will be a massive weak link. He is who he is and I hate picking on guys, but I’m not going to lie to this board about him either.

I am hoping CC at 1.25 will be easier for him to sit. I don't agree with it but there is a lot of pressure to play shultz and JJ when they are making 5.5 and 3.25 respectively.

Riikola and CC make the same and sully seems to like and trust Ruh. I hope that helps him make the right choices and base it on play not contract.