Salary Cap: Trade Thread # LXVI: Well..... Were waiting!?!?

[jmelm]

Sorry but that deal's f***ing insane. Dude hasn't done anything significant in the post season since 2017, and even then it was clutch scoring instead of quantity. His RS numbers have brain-poisoned people into thinking Rust is some irreplaceable stud, I'm just not buying it. I'm not saying dump him for peanuts, but the dude should be allowed to walk instead of signing that sorta deal to stick around here. With that in mind, shop him and see what you can get. If there's a deal that makes sense now and moving forward, do it--like a significant addition to help Geno's line. If we can move Kap in a separate trade to reshape the middle-6, that should be a priority as well, but definitely work the phones and gauge interest on Rust. If he walks and we lose him for nothing, so be it, but in no way should we throw that kinda term and cap hit at the guy.

So you want to get rid of a proven 200ft player who has great chemistry with Sid (which has been incredibly difficult to find over 87’s career) in lieu of whom?

Who do you propose we bring in to replace Rust — internally or externally— who is available and realistic? I don’t think Filip Forsberg at 9-10M or trading for Patrick Kane is realistic, for example.

59/87/17 have developed chemistry over years of playing with each other. It is arguably the best and most consistent line Sid has had in his entire career. We’ve spent how much in UFA and trading 1st rounders to find good linemates with Sid? So what you essentially want to do is give up on a sure thing to see what unknown lies behind Door #2.

It also doesn’t make sense for us to open up one problem (getting rid of Sid’s RW) to try to fix another one (getting a W for Geno). We need both, not either/or, and we will have the cap space this summer to do both with some combination of one of our LD out with POJ taking over, and ridding ourselves of either KK’s $3.2M cap hit and/or Zucker’s $5.5M.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

So you want to get rid of a proven 200ft player who has great chemistry with Sid (which has been incredibly difficult to find over 87’s career) in lieu of whom?

Who do you propose we bring in to replace Rust — internally or externally— who is available and realistic? I don’t think Filip Forsberg at 9-10M or trading for Patrick Kane is realistic, for example.

59/87/17 have developed chemistry over years of playing with each other. It is arguably the best and most consistent line Sid has had in his entire career. We’ve spent how much in UFA and trading 1st rounders to find good linemates with Sid? So what you essentially want to do is give up on a sure thing to see what unknown lies behind Door #2.

It also doesn’t make sense for us to open up one problem (getting rid of Sid’s RW) to try to fix another one (getting a W for Geno). We need both, not either/or, and we will have the cap space this summer to do both with some combination of one of our LD out with POJ taking over, and ridding ourselves of either KK’s $3.2M cap hit and/or Zucker’s $5.5M.

GCR's a dud in the playoffs. Geno desperately needs winger help. I don't have a pulse on every team in the league but I'd take a crack at just about any of the bigger names available in place of Rust and his *checks notes* 9pts in his last 26 playoff games.

Dude's colossally overrated, and even flirting with something like $6.5 AAV for 8 years on a very soon to be 30 year old is, uh, f***ing crazy.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm too lazy to do the math but resigning Malkin, Letang AND Rust along with filling out the rest of the lineup doesn't seem to leave any room for another top wing. And I hope to be wrong but I don't see the team being adventurous enough and/or willing to spend assets to move on from both Kap and Zucker. Kap probably since he doesn't seem to be favored. I think they will refuse to sell (super) low on Zucker and simply hope (YET AGAIN) that he just... figures it out.

I would be incredibly shocked if Malkin's situation is improved at all next season. If he's even still a Penguin.

 

[jmelm]

GCR's a dud in the playoffs. Geno desperately needs winger help. I don't have a pulse on every team in the league but I'd take a crack at just about any of the bigger names available in place of Rust and his *checks notes* 9pts in his last 26 playoff games.

Dude's colossally overrated, and even flirting with something like $6.5 AAV for 8 years on a very soon to be 30 year old is, uh, f***ing crazy.

Firstly, I never 6.5 x 8, because I’ve consistently said we could get his cap down if we go longer in term. So perhaps $6.5 x 5 years, $6M x 6 years, etc.

Secondly, and I mean this sincerely because I am also searching for a solution: who can we realistically target as a W for Geno? I get it if you don’t know every player in the league but share a few names if you’re so adamant we should do this.

Again, we have enough cap space to keep Rust and bring in a W for Geno if we’re cutting bait on Zucker and/or Kapanen.

 

[Gurglesons]

GCR's a dud in the playoffs. Geno desperately needs winger help. I don't have a pulse on every team in the league but I'd take a crack at just about any of the bigger names available in place of Rust and his *checks notes* 9pts in his last 26 playoff games.

Dude's colossally overrated, and even flirting with something like $6.5 AAV for 8 years on a very soon to be 30 year old is, uh, f***ing crazy.

GCR won us a cup.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Firsrky, I never 6.5 x 8, because I’ve consistently said we could get his cap down if we go longer in term. So perhaps $6.5 x 5 years, $6M x 6 years, etc.

Secondly, and I mean this sincerely because I am also searching for a solution: who can we realistically target as a W for Geno? I get it if you don’t know every player in the league but share a few names if you’re so adamant we should do this.

Again, we have enough cap space to keep Rust and bring in a W for Geno if we’re cutting bait on Zucker and/or Kapanen.

We’ll pay him $6 or 6.5 M on a 6/7 year deal (or maybe even a bit less if we go 8 years) and be done with it.

Alright, $6 million AAV on a 7 year deal is technically less absolutely batshit, but still absolutely batshit.

Kap's probably gonna be a hockey trade for a replacement between now and October so he's not going to be freeing up any space with a trade most likely. I doubt this team views Zucker as the pariah we all do (myself included) so the idea of moving him out for pure cap space is not something I see as realistic. At best, and this is a big reach I think and mostly emotions talking (again, want Zucker replaced asap), we're gonna see like a Bjugstad where we retain 50% just to be rid of him.

End of the day, I'm sure they'll try to re-sign Rust cuz "homegrown talent" and all that bullshit, but the kind of money it'll take to retain him is gonna be a huge mistake imo. Work the phones and see if you can find a hockey trade. If nothing makes sense in the immediate and you can't land a significant boon of futures (talking an early to mid-1st in addition to a prospect that'd immediately and inarguably be the best in our miserable system) then keep him for one more playoff run and let him walk. Signing him is the absolute last avenue the team should take.

-edit- I'm not sure anything of significance in the way of additions or subtractions happens in-season anyway. We'll try to land another low risk, under the radar pickup like Carter that either works out pleasantly well or is cheap enough to just shrug and forget about. This summer is when things will happen, imo. Kap probably dealt at the draft. Maybe a Zucker swap. Geno and Letang's contracts will be settled one way or another. If we're out again in the 1st round for any number of reasons, could be ugly.

 

[StaalForOne]

Futures mean nothing to this team. They’re going to be absolute dog shit whenever Crosby/Malkin are done. There is no avoiding that at this point.


If Keeping Rust takes term so what. Maybe he’s tradeable in a few years or maybe he ends up like a Ladd or Okposo and just rots on this team while they rebuild.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I don't really care for any of our current prospects, or any impending 1st we'll have that's going to be mid-to-late 20s range. But if you can add a significant prospect that immediately vaults to the top of our miserable prospect pool and projects to be an impact NHLer in the future and a 1st rounder around 15th or higher, I'd take that for Rust all day. Easily. He's living on RS numbers and some clutch playoff heroics from half a decade ago.

People can keep saying futures mean nothing but this core's right about 35 years old and there ain't much playoff sand left in the hourglass if there's any left at all.

And I'm not really sure this team's gonna be dogshit when the era's over. Parity rules in the NHL and unless you're a team like Arizona, Buffalo or like, Ottawa, it's hard to genuinely suck. Those teams are inept to a degree that makes me question whether or not they're intentionally bad for some reason. Edmonton is right there with them in that department, but they lucked into two generational talents that keep an otherwise rock bottom franchise hovering around mediocrity.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't really care for any of our current prospects, or any impending 1st we'll have that's going to be mid-to-late 20s range. But if you can add a significant prospect that immediately vaults to the top of our miserable prospect pool and projects to be an impact NHLer in the future and a 1st rounder around 15th or higher, I'd take that for Rust all day. Easily. He's living on RS numbers and some clutch playoff heroics from half a decade ago.

People can keep saying futures mean nothing but this core's right about 35 years old and there ain't much playoff sand left in the hourglass if there's any left at all.

And I'm not really sure this team's gonna be dogshit when the era's over. Parity rules in the NHL and unless you're a team like Arizona, Buffalo or like, Ottawa, it's hard to genuinely suck. Those teams are inept to a degree that makes me question whether or not they're intentionally bad for some reason. Edmonton is right there with them in that department, but they lucked into two generational talents that keep an otherwise rock bottom franchise hovering around mediocrity.

Detroit was as good as we were for years and will be out of contention for nearly a decade this season.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Does this mean we are no longer waiting?

 

[Peat]

Detroit was as good as we were for years and will be out of contention for nearly a decade this season.

Ken Holland did a pretty rotten job in terms of taking on bad contracts there. I don't think it would be that hard for a team to do a better job of rebuilding, or a better job of hanging on as a bubble team, than he did.

 

[MayorofWBS]

We shouldn't think twice about moving Marino in the right deal. Or Math, Petts, Dumo or POJ....

Various degrees of nice players...but far from irreplaceable.

 

[Pens x]

GCR won us a cup.

That was a long time ago now, bud. You don’t keep a line together because they were good 5 years ago (or a coach).

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I mean I’m not super attached to Marino or anything but losing him for a forward right now creates a massive hole on the blueline.

If you swap for a F you believe could have a bigger impact it’s gotta be in the summer imo.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Does this mean we are no longer waiting?

Waiting for Godot might be more fruitful.

 

[Gurglesons]

That was a long time ago now, bud. You don’t keep a line together because they were good 5 years ago (or a coach).

if you were our GM we’d probably be in Kansas City.

 

[tom_servo]

GCR's a dud in the playoffs. Geno desperately needs winger help. I don't have a pulse on every team in the league but I'd take a crack at just about any of the bigger names available in place of Rust and his *checks notes* 9pts in his last 26 playoff games.

Dude's colossally overrated, and even flirting with something like $6.5 AAV for 8 years on a very soon to be 30 year old is, uh, f***ing crazy.

It's really a reach to single out anyone as a dud these last few playoffs. Two of them against the game team.

Rust has only been a top six player for the past three seasons. He's proven to work with the centers we have. I think the term discussed is long, but when we have a $5 million player no one even notices (Zucker), it's easy to pay $6m to Rust. That's a bargain for a point per gamer. That's the "overrated, product of a team" price. If he walks there's a strong chance we'll be paying more for less. But I wouldn't write a blank check.

 

[Peat]

I mean I’m not super attached to Marino or anything but losing him for a forward right now creates a massive hole on the blueline.

If you swap for a F you believe could have a bigger impact it’s gotta be in the summer imo.

This, and I'd add that you pretty much have to replace him immediately, and finding right shot dmen who can cope with difficult top 4 minutes isn't a walk in the park.

 

[ColePens]

Ken Holland did a pretty rotten job in terms of taking on bad contracts there. I don't think it would be that hard for a team to do a better job of rebuilding, or a better job of hanging on as a bubble team, than he did.

If you rewind time and look, fans thought those contracts were GENIUS. And we inevitably found out they sure were not. And then they chased a playoff streak instead of realizing they weren't good enough.

Retracing their steps from 2009 to present would be very fascinating.

 

[StaalForOne]

I can see us doing the same thing. As a GM you probably feel a responsibility to keep such a long playoff streak going.

 

[ColePens]

I can see us doing the same thing. As a GM you probably feel a responsibility to keep such a long playoff streak going.

Oh hell yes. It's weird to me because what is a common denominator with the Penguisn winning a cup? Firing the head coach. So in this era we are sitting with Sully even though he dropped out first round now in multiple years. Here's hoping their patience pays off.

But what's the common denominator with the Pens eras turning into gold? Absolute 100% purposeful collapse. When Sid/G/Letang retire, holy shit give me a 10 win season. I am ALL in on throwing back some cocktails and laughing with people around here as we get trounced only for our kids to all see the next generation mega star back in the burgh.

 

[Gurglesons]

This, and I'd add that you pretty much have to replace him immediately, and finding right shot dmen who can cope with difficult top 4 minutes isn't a walk in the park.

I think you could easily do Marino for a player like Boeser or Miller and then bring Colin Miller on the cheap and not miss too much.

 

[Gurglesons]

Oh hell yes. It's weird to me because what is a common denominator with the Penguisn winning a cup? Firing the head coach. So in this era we are sitting with Sully even though he dropped out first round now in multiple years. Here's hoping their patience pays off.

But what's the common denominator with the Pens eras turning into gold? Absolute 100% purposeful collapse. When Sid/G/Letang retire, holy shit give me a 10 win season. I am ALL in on throwing back some cocktails and laughing with people around here as we get trounced only for our kids to all see the next generation mega star back in the burgh.

Given Sid’s historical comparables there is no reason this team should not be a playoff team for the entirety of his contract even if Letang and Geno walk.

That isn’t even touching how some of the younger players on our squad continuously pan out.

 

[ColePens]

Given Sid’s historical comparables there is no reason this team should not be a playoff team for the entirety of his contract even if Letang and Geno walk.

I definitely agree. HOWEVER making the playoffs and being a contender are two different things. Detroit chose to be a playoff team with like less than 5% chance to be a contender. But this team got us 3 Cups. I'm willing to sit through it.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Oh hell yes. It's weird to me because what is a common denominator with the Penguisn winning a cup? Firing the head coach. So in this era we are sitting with Sully even though he dropped out first round now in multiple years. Here's hoping their patience pays off.

But what's the common denominator with the Pens eras turning into gold? Absolute 100% purposeful collapse. When Sid/G/Letang retire, holy shit give me a 10 win season. I am ALL in on throwing back some cocktails and laughing with people around here as we get trounced only for our kids to all see the next generation mega star back in the burgh.

The interesting thing is what kind of overlap there will be with Crosby. If he wanted, I think he could play 5 more years. So does he stay on after Letang/Malkin retire or do they all go out together? I don't read into anything Hextall and Burke say about contracts but I don't think it's a given that Malkin and Letang stay, or that even one of them stays past this year.