Salary Cap: Trade Thread # LXVI: Well..... Were waiting!?!?

[Empoleon8771]

I read this more like no one is really interested in those two unless they probably come with a first round pick or good prospect lol

Those two wouldn't be offered for an asset on par with Boeser if they weren't valued in the eyes of Hextall. Maybe Hextall's an idiot and everyone disagrees with him, but that offer makes me think that those guys are at least decently valued.

He's not a HFBoard poster who offers spare parts for superstars. He's an actual NHL GM that seems to think that the value of Kapanen and Pettersson combined should get at least close to Boeser.

 

[Ryder71]

Garland cost the Canucks a top ten 1st.

oh ok,

 

[Peat]

Has Zucker flopped? We expect 20 and 20 from him in an 82 game season. Garland provides 20 and 30. Ultimately what is the difference?

I guess that is my main issue with bringing in Garland is this team learning from the Zucker trade.

Leaving aside that at Zucker's cost and previous track record we were expecting closer to 50 than 40, we wouldn't be having this conversation if Zucker looked near 20 and 20 this season and also, crucially, was a guy we could rely on to provide Malkin with help. Because it's not just about their numbers, it's about making sure our elite Cs have the right numbers too.

Although tbf Zucker has probably done more than anyone else on a per/60 basis to help Malkin there, just nobody trusts it to be more than a one match fluke.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Garland essentially cost a top ten 1st. I don’t see how he would not be overly costly.

I mean, Kapanen cost the Penguins picks #15 and Hallander like a year and a half ago, so why wouldn't he be overly costly to acquire now?

Not only do past trades of players impact their future value (a harsh lesson I learned with Derrick Brassard), but JR wasn't the guy who made that trade last off-season to begin with.

I think his situation is fairly comparable to Kapanen's situation, in that the guy paying the price for him just super overpaid to get him.

 

[Peat]

I mean, Kapanen cost the Penguins picks #15 and Hallander like a year and a half ago, so why wouldn't he be overly costly to acquire now?

Not only do past trades of players impact their future value (a harsh lesson I learned with Derrick Brassard), but JR wasn't the guy who made that trade last off-season to begin with.

Tbf Garland has just basically repeated his previous season at 5v5 in Vancouver. Most dramatic change in price are due to dramatic changes in form, not due to a 0.03 difference in p/60. His overall stats look worse as he's gone from a PP1 to a PP2 so there might be some reduction, but if there's a big reduction Rutherford's being dumb.

 

[Gurglesons]

Leaving aside that at Zucker's cost and previous track record we were expecting closer to 50 than 40, we wouldn't be having this conversation if Zucker looked near 20 and 20 this season and also, crucially, was a guy we could rely on to provide Malkin with help. Because it's not just about their numbers, it's about making sure our elite Cs have the right numbers too.

Although tbf Zucker has probably done more than anyone else on a per/60 basis to help Malkin there, just nobody trusts it to be more than a one match fluke.

I mean, it’s pretty much assumed Zucker was playing through a sports hernia this season no?

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean, Kapanen cost the Penguins picks #15 and Hallander like a year and a half ago, so why wouldn't he be overly costly to acquire now?

Not only do past trades of players impact their future value (a harsh lesson I learned with Derrick Brassard), but JR wasn't the guy who made that trade last off-season to begin with.

I think his situation is fairly comparable to Kapanen's situation, in that the guy paying the price for him just super overpaid to get him.

I don’t think Garland returns an unprotected 1st or something. But I don’t see Kapanen and a useless prospect like POJ doing it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Tbf Garland has just basically repeated his previous season at 5v5 in Vancouver. Most dramatic change in price are due to dramatic changes in form, not due to a 0.03 difference in p/60. His overall stats look worse as he's gone from a PP1 to a PP2 so there might be some reduction, but if there's a big reduction Rutherford's being dumb.

I don't think Garland is having a bad season, the analytics actually suggest the opposite and suggests he's having a good year. I just don't think what the Canucks paid for him is that super relevant because the guy who made that payment isn't the GM anymore.

It's the same deal with Kapanen, just because a team paid a 1st and a B prospect for him 2 years ago doesn't mean someone would do that now. I think the Canucks bought high on Garland and that trade was made by a moron GM.

 

[Peat]

I mean, it’s pretty much assumed Zucker was playing through a sports hernia this season no?

Probably, but still doesn't change the detail about needing a guy for Malkin.

Incidentally, the timing of that injury really f***ing sucked.

I don't think Garland is having a bad season, the analytics actually suggest the opposite and suggests he's having a good year. I just don't think what the Canucks paid for him is that super relevant because the guy who made that payment isn't the GM anymore.

It's the same deal with Kapanen, just because a team paid a 1st and a B prospect for him 2 years ago doesn't mean someone would do that now.

It's still relevant because he's still largely the same player and the likelihood of a team coming quite close to that is a lot better than it is for Kapanen, who has picked the wrong moment to shit himself as you've pointed out.

If Garland was put on the market, there should be a better offer than Kapanen unless Rutherford really loves Kapanen. Which he does, but that's the case for the deal, not objective value.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I do think it's interesting that Hextall's shown his hand a bit by saying he'd like to add a scoring line winger, and we're hearing all this chatter about specific names and potential teams we could be working with. I think it adds to the intrigue that we're apparently shopping some pretty sizable assets--and while it's not a given, it seems like we're more interested in adding significantly as opposed to being happy with a low-risk, under the radar move like last TDL. Even more interesting is that we're apparently only in the market for guys with term, so no rentals.

I take that to mean; A. the team is unhappy with the supporting cast and wants to add more punch for what they feel is likely to be the last hurrah, and B. they feel like Rust or Letang are absolutely gone, maybe both.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

By the way, Seravalli was allegedly on the radio in Canada and said that the Penguins offered Kapanen and/or Pettersson for Boeser, but the Canucks said no and it seems like negotiations are basically done. The Penguins also offered those two to other teams but couldn't come to agreement on any other trades.

On one hand, I think Hextall offering that package and expecting something good for it back suggests that those two actually have legitimate value. Maybe Hextall is just an idiot, but I don't think Hextall would be offering something that is just ludicrously stupid if he was going after someone like Boeser, even if the trade didn't materialize.

In an ideal world I think those are the 2 best pieces & most expendable we can move. I believe both guys carry decent value as well to other teams Both are young, cost controlled and even though their game isn't where it needs to be they have talent that GM's like to chance.

Gonna be a lot of back and forth, GMs will shop the market as well and play hardball etc.

If we moved Kap and Petts for upgrades I'd be a pretty happy pens fan. (Even though I root every game for Kap to turn it around as some of his sexy plays are burned into my homer eyes)

 

[Empoleon8771]

It's still relevant because he's still largely the same player and the likelihood of a team coming quite close to that is a lot better than it is for Kapanen, who has picked the wrong moment to shit himself as you've pointed out.

If Garland was put on the market, there should be a better offer than Kapanen unless Rutherford really loves Kapanen. Which he does, but that's the case for the deal, not objective value.

Is he largely the same player? When the Canucks traded for him, he was coming off a season where he was pacing for 65 points. This year, he's pacing for only 48 points, which is more in line with what I feel like he is.

I think Garland's situation is that a bad GM bought high on him. He's still a really good 50 point 2nd liner on a fair contract, so he definitely still has value, but I strongly doubt he pulls off what he pulled off last off-season if he was traded right now. Like I posted a few times, I think Kapanen and POJ for Garland gets you pretty close.

 

[Ugene Magic]

New thread is up: Salary Cap: - Pittsburgh Penguin Salary Thread: TDL - 7 Days.....

 

[Peat]

edit: Moved to new thread.

 

[MayorofWBS]

Kapanen we could likely get a shitty UFA back. Or a bad contract.

If he's sunk this low. We should just non-tender him and walk away in the offseason.

 

[The Old Master]

I do think it's interesting that Hextall's shown his hand a bit by saying he'd like to add a scoring line winger, and we're hearing all this chatter about specific names and potential teams we could be working with. I think it adds to the intrigue that we're apparently shopping some pretty sizable assets--and while it's not a given, it seems like we're more interested in adding significantly as opposed to being happy with a low-risk, under the radar move like last TDL. Even more interesting is that we're apparently only in the market for guys with term, so no rentals.

I take that to mean; A. the team is unhappy with the supporting cast and wants to add more punch for what they feel is likely to be the last hurrah, and B. they feel like Rust or Letang are absolutely gone, maybe both.

More like they are looking in the right place but unlike jr they aren't going to over pay.