Speculation: Trade Speculation / Untouchable players

[KIRK]

Look at you, being all passionate.

I agree, Orpik's attitude may actually explain his decline a bit. There's no desire to improve in other areas, particularly while his body declines. Get him away from the rookies. The Pens have been into adding leadership for the playoffs, it might be time to start looking at removing a certain type of leadership.

You bastage. This is fargin war.

P.S.: As I wrote yesterday, Orpik = Recchi circa 2007. Only difference is that we had a coach then with the balls to see it and do something about it.

 

[Michael8771*]

I don't watch them enough to know, but are there any forwards on say a Nashville or Phoenix that may not have sexy numbers that you could see thriving here?

Nashville is in need of forwards even more than we are. Phoenix isn't much better.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Neal wasn't. I'm not seeing how DP has much more value right now than Gogo did when we dealt him. DP might have the higher upside, but he hasn't played a single NHL game and is likely a few years away from playing meaningful minutes.

If you don't like Wheeler as a player, then fair enough. But to act like DP is worth only a proven elite player isn't based in reality.

Neal wasn't, but we also didn't overpay for him. Quite the opposite actually. I wasn't comparing DP's value to Gogo's either.

I just think that trading arguably your top prospect, a 1st and a younger, cheaper version of a forward for the older version of said forward is an overpayment that I would be far from pleased with doing.

Wheeler is a good player. He's not a great player. For that package, we'd need a great player even if the team doesn't necessarily need one. What we send out should accurately represent the return. The trade that Rossi made up doesn't in my opinion. Not to mention that it can't work with the cap.

Dreger was just on NHL Network and said he doesn't see Winnipeg trading a big name and mentioned specifically: Byfuglien, Kane and Wheeler.

Take that for what you will.

Well he's more reliable than most who have weighed in on the topic at least.

 

[Michael8771*]

You bastage. This is fargin war.

P.S.: As I wrote yesterday, Orpik = Recchi circa 2007. Only difference is that we had a coach then with the balls to see it and do something about it.

MT was a real man! Not like this pencil neck geek coach we have now. He wants to be everyone's ''buddy''. Well ''buddy'' take a long walk off a short pier!

 

[KIRK]

MT was a real man! Not like this pencil neck geek coach we have now. He wants to be everyone's ''buddy''. Well ''buddy'' take a long walk off a short pier!

You said it, not me.

I only implied it.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

You bastage. This is fargin war.

P.S.: As I wrote yesterday, Orpik = Recchi circa 2007. Only difference is that we had a coach then with the balls to see it and do something about it.

Wait, is this the same coach that basically used Michel Ouellet the way the current coach uses Dupuis?

Right.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Nashville is in need of forwards even more than we are. Phoenix isn't much better.

I would LOVE to have Hornqvist on the Pens, but there is no chance they move him, unless they like Sutter.

 

[ozpensfan]

Hornqvist - Would love to see him but hes had nagging injuries this year
Marcus Foligno - Gives us size, skill, youth for the 3rd line also hits everything that moves
Setoguchi - Has flourished with setup guys before, could see him doing damage alongside #87

 

[Michael8771*]

You said it, not me.

I only implied it.

I took the ball and ran with it a bit I guess.

 

[jmelm]

I also think a 3rd line center needs to be brought in. Still trying to catch some Rags games to get a look at Brian Boyle. Guy always seemed like he had some offensive skill. At least enough to score 15-20 goals. Curious as to why he hasn't even come close to that. He'd be an ideal 3rd line center for us, if he has any offensive ability anymore.

Brandon Sutter is starting to annoy me, and I'm not real sure why.

Can't be too angry with Sutter, he's been playing with crap for most of the season. The Penguins need to get some NHL-caliber players for him on the third line.

I have to agree with the 2nd statement. I do agree with you, JTG, that Sutter has been far from exceptional this season, but I do believe that the primary reason he has been less than stellar is because of the revolving door of poor quality linemates. I also don't believe he has peaked as a player. We have been spoiled to a large degree by seeing some of our top young players step in and make an immediate impact. What more typically happens is it takes guys longer to figure it out. I honestly believe that Sutter will take a significant step up in his level of play over the next few years and should remain at that higher level for a while. He is still only 24 years old.

Also, if Sutter isn't our 3rd line C of the future, there's a very good chance it will be Oscar Sundqvist. Oscar is developing really well and if he improves his skating, could be quite the prototypical 3rd line C. Great size, more of a willingness to use it than Sutter or Stall, definitely some inherent skill, good on draws and defensively, and has good vision and playmaking ability. And when you think of just how much it costs to acquire really high-end 3rd line C's as UFAs, it's FAR from cheap, and now it's with a steeply rising cap. I really don't think there will be moves made on this front, and I don't think anyone would argue that our first priority would be for a winger, which would have a very positive trickle-down effect of talent to the 3rd line.

The more i think about it i think Despres value is higher then we think.

If a team is scouting him there not going to look at how many games hes played this year or how hes being used to determine his trade value, there going to scout him in person to see how he plays or there going to to watch past games to see how hes performed.

Look at Jake Gardner, he gets scratched sometimes and you always hear how so many teams want to acquire him in a trade.

I agree about the latter part of your statement re. scouting and assessing value. It is very normal for young players to get scratched, so I don't think this will affect his value as much as other teams determine it from scouting him in the NHL, AHL, and the books scouts have on every player, dating back to their days in junior. When you have pedigree, it counts.

When I consider a good destination and example of that, I think about Montreal: not only is Despres a francophone player (important for them), their assistant coach is none other than Gerard Gallant, Despres' junior coach, who loves Simon. The problem is, I'm not sure MTL really has anything they would give up that would help us now. I had mentioned Lars Eller a few years ago, but he's since become too important to that team. Gallagher? Forget it. So the one other guy I would be interested in, but absolutely does not help us now, is Jacob De La Rose. He was absolutely excellent in the WJCs this year.

 

[Tender Rip]

Hornqvist - Would love to see him but hes had nagging injuries this year
Marcus Foligno - Gives us size, skill, youth for the 3rd line also hits everything that moves
Setoguchi - Has flourished with setup guys before, could see him doing damage alongside #87

Great names.

But with Hornqvist the trouble is that Nashville truly lack offense and do not lack defense. Hard to see how we can entice them.
Same story with Foligno.... and with him I think one would really have to overpay.
And... same story with Winnipeg as regards needs.... they could however trade Seto anyway at a reasonable price given their depth at wing.... but of course one wonders if he just isn't any better considering his career. Still think he is one of the players where we could really reap "attached to super star" effect that'd gloss over his relative short comings.

Anyway, all these three teams are crying for an impact C.... Staal is no longer here, and what they really need is a first line version which J.Staal patently is not.

 

[ObsessedCreative*]

Hornqvist - Would love to see him but hes had nagging injuries this year
Marcus Foligno - Gives us size, skill, youth for the 3rd line also hits everything that moves
Setoguchi - Has flourished with setup guys before, could see him doing damage alongside #87

Ummm am I the only one here who wants ZERO to do with him? Especially having to give up something for someone who's been discarded like a piece of trash from team to team over the past few years.

 

[Michael8771*]

Ummm am I the only one here who wants ZERO to do with him? Especially having to give up something for someone who's been discarded like a piece of trash from team to team over the past few years.

I'm not a huge Seto fan myself. He's better than nothing but I'd try and look elsewhere.

 

[T1K]

At this point, Seto is probably one of the best options for us. He'd likely be fairly cheap and he isn't a long term commitment. I'd really like to keep Despres if possible.

 

[ObsessedCreative*]

I'm not a huge Seto fan myself. He's better than nothing but I'd try and look elsewhere.

If it came down to having to give up players or assets for a very mehhh / lazy player like Seto, I'd much rather just wait it out until the young/WBS guys get heathy (gibbons, BB, Megna) and give them a shot.

 

[T1K]

If it came down to having to give up players or assets for a very mehhh / lazy player like Seto, I'd much rather just wait it out until the young/WBS guys get heathy (gibbons, BB, Megna) and give them a shot.

The thing is Seto probably would only be like a 1st at the deadline. Even if he sucks then I'd feel better heading into the playoffs with him as an option over not having him and only the WBS guys. I think we can all agree Seto's short term upside is much higher than the 3 you listed other than maybe Bennett.

 

[ObsessedCreative*]

The thing is Seto probably would only be like a 1st at the deadline. Even if he sucks then I'd feel better heading into the playoffs with him as an option over not having him and only the WBS guys. I think we can all agree Seto's short term upside is much higher than the 3 you listed other than maybe Bennett.

You'd be OK giving up a 1st for him?!?! Jesus Christ ... Yikes.

 

[#66]

Dreger was just on NHL Network and said he doesn't see Winnipeg trading a big name and mentioned specifically: Byfuglien, Kane and Wheeler.

Take that for what you will.

But what happens if the interest is Jokinen, Little or Frolik?

I think Froliks skating, playmaking and some pretty good two way play would fit right into Malkin and Neals line.

 

[ozpensfan]

Setoguchi I wouldn't cough up anything more then a 2nd. Also I could see Victor stahlberg filling in a spot on the 3rd line pending what Nashville gave him in the off season.

 

[Michael8771*]

But what happens if the interest is Jokinen, Little or Frolik?

I think Froliks skating, playmaking and some pretty good two way play would fit right into Malkin and Neals line.

For Geno's line my main man Kulemin would be the way to go.

 

[Michael8771*]

Setoguchi I wouldn't cough up anything more then a 2nd. Also I could see Victor stahlberg filling in a spot on the 3rd line pending what Nashville gave him in the off season.

We don't have a 2hd this year, but yeah, I'm not parting with a first rounder.

 

[Ugene Magic]

But what happens if the interest is Jokinen, Little or Frolik?

I think Froliks skating, playmaking and some pretty good two way play would fit right into Malkin and Neals line.

I like the Frolik addition but not for Geno's line, he would be a Dupuis esk addition to Crosby's line.

Dreger also didn't say Ladd in his rumor, that makes me hopeful he might be available.

We can now Byfuglien, Kane and Wheeler off the list.

For Geno's line my main man Kulemin would be the way to go.

I'm not aiming this directly at you so don't take any offense.

Where have the Pens been even associated with the Leafs rumors or scouting alike?

Kulemin doesn't seem to be a target, and the Leafs roster players in general.

 

[Michael8771*]

I like the Frolik addition but not for Geno's line, he would be a Dupuis esk addition to Crosby's line.

Dreger also didn't say Ladd in his rumor, that makes me hopeful he might be available.

We can now Byfuglien, Kane and Wheeler off the list.



I'm not aiming this directly at you so don't take any offense.

Where have the Pens been even associated with the Leafs rumors or scouting alike?

Kulemin doesn't seem to be a target, and the Leafs roster players in general.

They aren't necessarily looking at Kulemin, but they should be. He's on an expiring contract, his numbers are very ordinary and his cap hit is 2.8 million. He's had success with Geno in the past and he is a solid two way player. He likely could be had at a reasonable price. IMO his OVERALL talent isn't indicative of his lackluster numbers this year, but I see a lot of positives in his game. Basically I believe we can get him on the cheap.

 

[Shady Machine]

Dumbass reporters aside, he does have very good value most likely. Especially for a team looking to rebuild their D a bit or bring someone in as a hedge against an older, more proven guy losing a step. Elmer has enough experience that he could step into many teams' Top 4 without much trouble.

The real question is could Shifty Shero package a different D and combination of assets and get the same thing in return, while keeping the Mighty Elmer? With guys like Nisky and Orpik and other good prospects in the mix, I'd say it could happen (and I hope it does happen that way). Although I won't lose it or anything if he is traded for someone good. For example, if someone like Ott was involved I'd be perfectly fine with it. OTOH for someone like McGinn I'm not sure that would be a good deal.

You'd be fine trading Simon Despres for rental Steve Ott over an RFA in McGinn? I wouldn't trade Despres for either but I'm sure as hell not trading him for a rental.

 

[Shady Machine]

That, or he's just not a the type of 3rd line center that's right for this team, especially if we're loading up the top 6. I just don't believe Brandon Sutter has the ability to gain weight, which is really a big reason I'd look into moving him. A 183 pound guy you are using as a checker doesn't work that well. He has said that he cannot gain weight. I think we'd be better off getting tougher at that position. Brian Boyle is a laughable fighter, but at least you can put him out there against top lines, he can lean on them and wear guys down.

Sutter is fine as a shutdown guy because he's smart. He's not going to wear down guys with his size like Staal, but a Staal costs you 6mil. Sutter is the right type of 3rd line center for this team IF you surround him with a winger with size and grit.

That said, if some team is crazy about Sutter, I'd prefer putting him in a package for a top 6 winger over Bennett.