Proposal: Trade Rumours/Proposals 2019-20 PART VIII

[NyQuil]

Those 2 goals still dosnt make him a consistent playoff warrior, holy faking christ. It doesnt change the entire context of my point, not at all.

I dont care about Turris either. I just think anyone calling him a consistent playoff warrior is a bit, shall we say, lost, and chugging back that nostalgia flavored cool-aid.

In terms of career playoff points-per-game with the Senators (0.57), he's behind guys like Alfredsson, Heatley Spezza, Hossa, Havlat and he's ahead of guys like Stone, Fisher, Schaefer, Bonk, Hoffman, Smolinski, Michalek.

That's pretty much exactly where you'd expect a top six forward to be.

 

[Silencio]

Turris scored 3 playoff OT GWG for Ottawa during his time here (2012 vs NYR, 2013 vs Montreal, and 2017 again vs NYR). That's probably why people remember him as a postseason hero.

 

[Samsquanch]

In terms of career playoff points-per-game with the Senators, he's behind guys like Alfredsson, Heatley Spezza, Hossa, Havlat and he's ahead of guys like Stone, Fisher, Schaefer, Bonk, Hoffman.

That's pretty much exactly where you'd expect a top six forward to be.

Right.

Stone, Fisher, Schaefer, Bonk, Hoffman were not consistent playoff warriors for us. Starting to understand yet?

Just becasue they played playoff games for us, even scored some big goals and might have been the MVP of some games. That doenst make them consistent playoff warriors. Think about that definition, like really break it down, and then try to reconcile it with a guy like Turris' stat line in the playoffs.

 

[NyQuil]

Right.

Stone, Fisher, Schaefer, Bonk, Hoffman were not consistent playoff warriors for us. Starting to understand yet?

Just becasue they played playoff games for us, even scored some big goals and might have been the MVP of some games. That doenst make them consistent playoff warriors. Think about that definition, like really break it down, and then try to reconcile it with a guy like Turris' stat line in the playoffs.

The point being that scoring in the playoffs is lower, so the standard for what consistent production is necessarily has to be lower as well.

Turris' playoff stat line is consistent when compared with players with the same talent level and role around the league.

What's the point of a definition of consistent that only HoFers can meet?

 

[NyQuil]

Turris scored 3 playoff OT GWG for Ottawa during his time here (2012 vs NYR, 2013 vs Montreal, and 2017 again vs NYR). That's probably why people remember him as a postseason hero.

Yeah, I forgot about the other NYR one.

 

[aragorn]

I liked Turris & was against the Duchene trade, but understood the term Turris wanted was too much for this team. Given how his career has been since the trade it may have been another good move at the right time, then again it could be that Ottawa was a better fit for him than Nashville.

 

[NyQuil]

I liked Turris & was against the Duchene trade, but understood the term Turris wanted was too much for this team. Given how his career has been since the trade it may have been another good move at the right time, then again it could be that Ottawa was a better fit for him than Nashville.

What's funny is that I agree that he should have been shipped out. I also think Nashville isn't a very good fit for him, but he is declining and with his frame, lack of speed will cost him going forward.

 

[Samsquanch]

The point being that scoring in the playoffs is lower, so the standard for what consistent production is necessarily has to be lower as well.

Turris' playoff stat line is consistent when compared with players with the same talent level and role around the league.

LMFAO correct again...

But we dont call all of those players consistent playoff warriors. Just simply playing hockey in the playoffs doesnt automatically quailify you for a "consistent playoff warrior" participation ribbon FFS... what are we even talking about anymore?

To be given high praise, I guess Im used to the days where you actually had to friggin earn it.... I guess thats just me. Again thats not a knock on Turris, hes just not getting the medal of honor from me for his spotty playoff career stat line, despite scoring some big goals for us. There were far many more games that we saw him get completely nullified by a bigger centerman and turn into an invisible man.

 

[NyQuil]

LMFAO correct again...

But we dont call all of those players consistent playoff warriors. Just simply playing hockey in the playoffs doesnt automatically quailify you for a "consistent playoff warrior" participation ribbon FFS... what are we even talking about anymore?

To be given high praise, I guess Im used to the days where you actually had to friggin earn it.... I guess thats just me. Again thats not a knock on Turris, hes just not getting the medal of honor from me for his spotty playoff career stat line, despite scoring some big goals for us. There were far many more games that we saw him get completely nullified by a bigger centerman and turn into an invisible man.

Well, there are extremely few playoff warriors out there using your definition, basically everyone on the Senators roster over their entire history aside from maybe 5 or 6 guys.

I guess I have more of a forgiving definition.

 

[Samsquanch]

Well, there are extremely few playoff warriors out there using your definition. Like 4 in the history of this franchise.

As it should be. We dont need 100 of them out there at all times like there is some arbitrary stock level that needs to be filled no matter what.

Give high praise when its earned - dont just give out high praise by f***ing default because there is no one else better around to give it to at the moment. Im really sad that I need to explain this, our society is becoming a bigger joke all the time.

 

[NyQuil]

As it should be. We dont need 100 of them out there at all times like there is some arbitrary stock level that needs to be filled no matter what.

Give high praise when its earned - dont just give out high praise by f***ing default because there is no one else better around to give it to at the moment.

I don't expect franchise production from a non-franchise player.

My evaluation is based upon their commensurate talent, salary and expectations.

Im really sad that I need to explain this, our society is becoming a bigger joke all the time.

Yeah, something's a joke alright.

Debate about hockey on the internet ---> SOCIETY!!!!!!!!11111

 

[aragorn]

What's funny is that I agree that he should have been shipped out. I also think Nashville isn't a very good fit for him, but he is declining and with his frame, lack of speed will cost him going forward.

That is true too & I compare Colin White to Turris sometimes & think the exact same thing could over time happen to him, White has already had some significant injuries in his hockey career. It's why I think they need another centre from this draft, hopefully Byfield, but if not they could easily grab Lundell. who already has a bigger frame.

 

[Samsquanch]

I don't expect franchise production from a non-franchise player.

My evaluation is based upon their commensurate talent, salary and expectations.



Yeah, something's a joke alright.

Debate about hockey on the internet ---> SOCIETY!!!!!!!!11111

Yeah. Society. The same one giving out trophies to every single kid in the hockey tournament where everyone walks away the big winner, and no one lost.

It sucks. Its a joke, and your kind of implying the same thing by calling Turris a consistent playoff warrior while clearly ignoring the inconsistencies in his playoff performances, for whatever reason.

How can you call something consistent that is clearly not consistent? What am I missing here?

Edit: Call Kyle Turris a streaky playoff warrior and I will have 0 objections to that statement whatsoever.

 

[NyQuil]

Yeah. Society. The same one giving out trophies to every single kid in the hockey tournament where everyone walks away the big winner, and no one lost.

Just park the rant about society please. It's embarrassing and unnecessary.

by calling Turris a consistent playoff warrior while clearly ignoring the inconsistencies in his playoff performances, for whatever reason.

How can you call something consistent that is clearly not consistent? What am I missing here?

The very nature of the playoffs prevents the kind of consistency you are looking for.

Marian Hossa had three playoff seasons where he scored exactly 0 points. He had three more playoff seasons where he scored 2 points or fewer. That's six seasons where he did absolutely nothing.

Daniel Alfredsson had two playoff seasons with 0 points and two more playoff seasons with 2 points or fewer.

The great Gary Roberts. Two playoffs with zero points. A couple more with 2 points.

Can you name me some consistent playoff warriors so I know who you are holding up as the paradigm?

 

[Samsquanch]

Just park the rant about society please. It's embarrassing and unnecessary.


The very nature of the playoffs prevents the kind of consistency you are looking for.

Marian Hossa had three playoff seasons where he scored exactly 0 points. He had three more playoff seasons where he scored 2 points or fewer. That's six seasons where he did absolutely nothing.

Daniel Alfredsson had two playoff seasons with 0 points and two more playoff seasons with 2 points or fewer.

The great Gary Roberts. Two playoffs with zero points. A couple more with 2 points.

Can you name me some consistent playoff warriors so I know who you are holding up as the paradigm?

So Turris is at 1/6 then for consistent playoff series then for his career using your logic. Right Nyquil?


At a random glance at each roster, here is what I came up with.

Marchand
Pastrnak
Bergeron
Kreji
Kucherov
Killorn
Johansen
Forseberg
Scheifle
Benn
Spezza
Mackinnon
Landeskog
Toews
Kane
Keith
Parise
Ovy
Backstrom
Kuznetsov
Crosby
Kessel
Malkin
Guentzle
Brassard
Panarin
Giroux
Couture
Pavelski
Burns
Karlsson
Getzlaf
Perry
Silvferberg
Kovalchuk
Kopitar

Ohhhh the horror of having so few in the league at once..... we need to loosen up our standards people and let more guys into the "consistency" club... .... or at the very least just let poor Kyle in.

 

[NyQuil]

Ohhhh the horror of having so few in the league at once..... we need to loosen up our standards people and let more guys into the "consistency" club... .... or at the very least just let poor Kyle in.

Yeah, I can make a list of HoFers and All-Stars too.

And how many of them are making $3.5M a season?

I don't understand the logic of comparing someone who was never paid like a #1C, was never put in a position to succeed as a #1C, was frequently behind another player at #1C with a list of the top centres in the league.

If you look at Turris' regular season production for his career, it's roughly on par with his playoff production.

So Turris is at 1/6 then for consistent playoff series then for his career using your logic. Right Nyquil?

What kind of math is that?

First, he's played in seven playoff campaigns.

Second, he's finished with 2 or fewer points in two of those campaigns.

So using that logic I guess that would make him 5/7.

 

[Samsquanch]

Yeah, I can make a list of HoFers and All-Stars too.

And how many of them are making $3.5M a season?

Who f***ing cares? As long as we arent trying to group Turris in with them Im good man. Those are playoff warriors. Turris is a playoff complimentary player (although admittedly with some big moments to his name - and a lot of invisibility cloaking peppered in between them).

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Just want lazar back.

 

[NyQuil]

Who f***ing cares? As long as we arent trying to group Turris in with them Im good man. Those are playoff warriors. Turris is a playoff complimentary player (although admittedly with some big moments to his name - and a lot of invisibility cloaking peppered in between them).

Well, I would never group Turris in with franchise centres, all-stars and future HoFers, so I guess we agree.

 

[Samsquanch]

Well, I would never group Turris in with franchise centres, all-stars and future HoFers, so I guess we agree.

Yet not all of them are listed there, not even close. Only the ones that are consistent playoff warriors.

Huh.

 

[Cosmix]

Any chance we're married to the same woman?

It seems that many of them are sisters! Mine included.

 

[JD1]

Well, if you look at his tenure with the Senators from 2011-2012 to 2017-2018, he is the Senators leading playoff goal scorer, tied with JGP.

Kyle Turris - 12
JG Pageau - 12
Bobby Ryan - 8
Mike Hoffman - 7
Daniel Alfredsson - 6
Clarke MacArthur - 5
Erik Karlsson - 5
Mark Stone - 5
Milan Michalek - 5

If you look at game-winning goals:

Kyle Turris - 3
Bobby Ryan - 3
Erik Karlsson - 2
Mark Methot - 2
Mike Hoffman - 2
JG Pageau - 2

I think he has earned a bit of a reputation as a playoff producer with the Senators.

I'm glad we moved on from Turris because the term for his contract was way too long considering an expected decline in his abilities, but that doesn't dismiss what he did do with this team.

All things considered Turris did OK in the playoffs for us. But we weren't going to be successful with that calibre of player in the 1C slot in my view. No shame on Turris he was just more ideally suited to a 2C role in his prime

 

[bert]

He's had a few good deals, EK, Pageau & Dingle were all good trades & a number of his trades seem to be to get rid of players, unfortunately in some of those he had to take back some crappy players too, but he also picked up a number of picks. We have 3 picks in the first rd & 4 in the 2nd rd of this coming draft because of those trades. I think the team has been done for a few yrs although they got really lucky in Boucher's last full yr & the rebuild should have started sooner than it did. Of course, that's hard to do after they go to the Conference Championship one yr & crap the bed in the next, but it seems to be a habit with this team in the last number of yrs.

Pierre Dorion Trades - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Show me a trade where he didnt trade for futures he has done well in. He has been taken to the cleaners and the Karlsson trade was pure luck.

 

[Shruggs Peterson]

Show me a trade where he didnt trade for futures he has done well in. He has been taken to the cleaners and the Karlsson trade was pure luck.

I'd consider Ceci/Harpur+ for Zaitsev/Brown+ trade to be a success that wasn't for futures. Not a massive trade like the others, but he didn't lose that one.

 

[Samsquanch]

All things considered Turris did OK in the playoffs for us. But we weren't going to be successful with that calibre of player in the 1C slot in my view. No shame on Turris he was just more ideally suited to a 2C role in his prime

This is pretty much my exact point. There is nothing wrong with Turris, his performance, or what he did for us in the playoffs. He did what he could given his talent level and the linemates around him, and the extra attention he would get as the Sens best centerman. All in all, it was pretty okay, and he certainly wasnt a playoff bust or anything like that.

But I need to hit the brakes on anyone willing to shower him with high praise such as being "a consistent playoff warrior" for us. He was simply not that, despite scoring a few big goals for us along the way....

Imo overall he was highly inconsistent in the post season (heck the regular season too for that matter), especially considering the amount of minutes that he played for us. Again this isnt me picking on Turris, just acknowledging that he had some serious limitations as an impact player.